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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 18, 2018 0:27:29 GMT -5
In general for here The last few years of the TNA section were far more enjoyable to be apart of than the WWE section I miss the loltna threads, it’s not funny to mock them when they’re improving. I miss Matt Hardy dressed as Bigfoot in order to fool the internet spoilers. I miss Pop tv ruining the feed and instead showing ads for That 70s Show on loop for like an hour. I miss Kurt Angle wrestling on mom jeans. I miss Dixie shilling her action figure while her company was dying. I miss the tna thread regulars seriously considering to buy ad time on impact to advertise FAN. I miss the million multi year contracts Bram got in a week. I miss TJP constantly kissing ass despite people leaving weekly. I miss loltna.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 18, 2018 2:12:00 GMT -5
Taker doesn't deserve credit for his 'loyalty' to the WWF during the Monday night wars. When he got the chance, he used going to WCW as leverage to force the WWE into letting him drop a gimmick they'd invested so much in, one that was making them money, so he can ride his bike on TV.
Taker sat on his hands and did nothing when the kliq were at their worst. For someone people love to canonise as an old school guys who's all about respect and keeping order, there's only one story about him standing up to Shawn and that's at the end of his first run, he did nothing when those clowns were bullying guys like Candido to the point people were afraid he'd kill himself.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 18, 2018 2:17:36 GMT -5
Taker doesn't deserve credit for his 'loyalty' to the WWF during the Monday night wars. When he got the chance, he used going to WCW as leverage to force the WWE into letting him drop a gimmick they'd invested so much in, one that was making them money, so he can ride his bike on TV. Taker sat on his hands and did nothing when the kliq were at their worst. For someone people love to canonise as an old school guys who's all about respect and keeping order, there's only one story about him standing up to Shawn and that's at the end of his first run, he did nothing when those clowns were bullying guys like Candido to the point people were afraid he'd kill himself. Ehhh. I'm not going to kill a man for using his leverage and morphing his gimmick into something he wants to do after playing the dead man for damn near 10 years. He never left, he just used them to get what he wanted so loyalty is still the same
Also that's just how the 90's was. He had his own kliq to protect himself and then just like others had there's. Sad as it is, every man for himself
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,319
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Sept 18, 2018 2:25:32 GMT -5
Kevin Nash’s attitude of treating it like a business and making sure he got paid well is a good thing and more people should have that attitude.
Because if you don’t, The business will walk all over you every chance it gets
I never understood why wanting to be well compensated for your work is treated with so much contempt.
And while I’m at it...
It wasn’t Nash’s fault he wasn’t a draw in 1995, you have to know how to use someone properly, he was a hell of a draw for WCW.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 18, 2018 2:43:01 GMT -5
- Nothing against him personally but I’ve always found Roddy Piper to be kind of overrated. With the sole exception of Mania 8 I can’t name a single match of his that I’ve enjoyed. I always found his promo work to be obnoxious, not in a “good heel” way but in a “please get off my TV” way. And I hated him on commentary.
- John Cena is not even close to that top tier of wrestling stars and no amount of WWE hype can make it so. He’s certainly top 30, maybe top 20 at a push. He is leagues below the likes of Hogan, Austin, Rock who he’s always lumped in with.
I would also argue Brock Lesnar is a bigger wrestling star than Cena.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 18, 2018 8:42:27 GMT -5
To me a great match in terms of ring work is meaningless without a decent feud to serve as a backdrop. It's like having a great scene in a lousy movie, good as it is, it usually isn't enough the elevate the dreck and makes the whole thing seem even more disjointed.
That's the problem with today's WWE, top notch talent, the roster is the best it's ever been un terms of ability but it's hard to appreciate it because of the backdrop of mediocrity.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 18, 2018 9:37:36 GMT -5
Taker doesn't deserve credit for his 'loyalty' to the WWF during the Monday night wars. When he got the chance, he used going to WCW as leverage to force the WWE into letting him drop a gimmick they'd invested so much in, one that was making them money, so he can ride his bike on TV. Taker sat on his hands and did nothing when the kliq were at their worst. For someone people love to canonise as an old school guys who's all about respect and keeping order, there's only one story about him standing up to Shawn and that's at the end of his first run, he did nothing when those clowns were bullying guys like Candido to the point people were afraid he'd kill himself. Well Yoko was the locker room leader at that point not Taker so it should’ve been up to him standing up to the Kliq. Candido also had a lot of heat because of Sunny getting into a fight with Paul Bearer, Paul covered himself while Tammy slapped him so he pushed her away, Candido said he was gonna beat Paul up which pissed off the locker room. Brisco had to essentially grab Chris by the arm and walk him outside of the locker room because they were gonna beat him up. The saddest part was that Bearer was standing up for Candido and telling Sunny to stop cheating on him. There ya go, Chris had heat with Shawn’s group and with Taker’s group.
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Post by realist on Sept 18, 2018 10:15:11 GMT -5
- I think the Undertaker's best run was as heel Big Evil. IMHO, he came off as 100 times scarier as a trash talking redneck than as a painted up zombie.
- There is something about Daniel Bryan that I dislike. Talent wise, he is great. But he just comes off as a really smug, hipster type in interviews.
- The two best promo men of all times are Arn Anderson and Jake Roberts. I love how they told stories grounded in realism that captivated you. I remember a promo that Arn cut on Chris Benoit (during the Sullivan/Woman angle) that went something like this: "The second worst thing in the world is coming home after a hard day's work and seeing another man sitting on your couch, drinking your beer, eating your food, with his arm around your woman. The worst thing in the world is to be the man sitting on that couch as the husband opens the door because deep down, you know that whatever he's about to do to you, you deserve it." I've never heard a promo before or since that captivated me like that. Meanwhile, The Rock talked about shoving things up asses....
- This one isn't really that unpopular around here these days but I find Paul Heyman absolutely boring. His promo is great the first time you hear it, not the 1,000th as it is the same promo.
- Owen Hart doesn't seem like such a great person to me after hearing about some of his ribs. Since he died so tragically, the wrestling world reveres him as a saint, but there are stories about how he used fans to pay for meals and did some pretty cruel practical jokes. If he had not died the way that he did, people would think he was kind of a jerk.
- Hulk Hogan is a racist. Even if we strike the n word rant from the record, there is still the prison recording of him telling Nick, "We're gonna live forever, brother. Even when we die, we will be reincarnated and be together forever. As long as God doesn't bring us back as a couple of black guys...." Why does no one ever bring that one up?
- For all his faults, and there are many, Vince Russo deserves more credit for the Attitude Era. He comes up with some of the stupidest crap sometimes, but he also came up with some of the best, as well as booked for the midcarders as well.
-The most delusional person in the wrestling business is Dave Meltzer. I once saw him claim that no one, including Vince McMahon, knew more about the actual business aspect of wrestling than him. If that is the case, why doesn't he just start his own billion dollar company?
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 18, 2018 12:12:25 GMT -5
- I think the Undertaker's best run was as heel Big Evil. IMHO, he came off as 100 times scarier as a trash talking redneck than as a painted up zombie. - There is something about Daniel Bryan that I dislike. Talent wise, he is great. But he just comes off as a really smug, hipster type in interviews. - The two best promo men of all times are Arn Anderson and Jake Roberts. I love how they told stories grounded in realism that captivated you. I remember a promo that Arn cut on Chris Benoit (during the Sullivan/Woman angle) that went something like this: "The second worst thing in the world is coming home after a hard day's work and seeing another man sitting on your couch, drinking your beer, eating your food, with his arm around your woman. The worst thing in the world is to be the man sitting on that couch as the husband opens the door because deep down, you know that whatever he's about to do to you, you deserve it." I've never heard a promo before or since that captivated me like that. Meanwhile, The Rock talked about shoving things up asses.... - This one isn't really that unpopular around here these days but I find Paul Heyman absolutely boring. His promo is great the first time you hear it, not the 1,000th as it is the same promo. - Owen Hart doesn't seem like such a great person to me after hearing about some of his ribs. Since he died so tragically, the wrestling world reveres him as a saint, but there are stories about how he used fans to pay for meals and did some pretty cruel practical jokes. If he had not died the way that he did, people would think he was kind of a jerk. - Hulk Hogan is a racist. Even if we strike the n word rant from the record, there is still the prison recording of him telling Nick, "We're gonna live forever, brother. Even when we die, we will be reincarnated and be together forever. As long as God doesn't bring us back as a couple of black guys...." Why does no one ever bring that one up? - For all his faults, and there are many, Vince Russo deserves more credit for the Attitude Era. He comes up with some of the stupidest crap sometimes, but he also came up with some of the best, as well as booked for the midcarders as well. -The most delusional person in the wrestling business is Dave Meltzer. I once saw him claim that no one, including Vince McMahon, knew more about the actual business aspect of wrestling than him. If that is the case, why doesn't he just start his own billion dollar company? do you have a link to that hogan recording? I haven’t heard it before
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Sept 18, 2018 12:20:15 GMT -5
In general for here The last few years of the TNA section were far more enjoyable to be apart of than the WWE section Summer 2015 TNA was the absolute golden age of insanity and I miss it
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Post by realist on Sept 18, 2018 12:26:07 GMT -5
- I think the Undertaker's best run was as heel Big Evil. IMHO, he came off as 100 times scarier as a trash talking redneck than as a painted up zombie. - There is something about Daniel Bryan that I dislike. Talent wise, he is great. But he just comes off as a really smug, hipster type in interviews. - The two best promo men of all times are Arn Anderson and Jake Roberts. I love how they told stories grounded in realism that captivated you. I remember a promo that Arn cut on Chris Benoit (during the Sullivan/Woman angle) that went something like this: "The second worst thing in the world is coming home after a hard day's work and seeing another man sitting on your couch, drinking your beer, eating your food, with his arm around your woman. The worst thing in the world is to be the man sitting on that couch as the husband opens the door because deep down, you know that whatever he's about to do to you, you deserve it." I've never heard a promo before or since that captivated me like that. Meanwhile, The Rock talked about shoving things up asses.... - This one isn't really that unpopular around here these days but I find Paul Heyman absolutely boring. His promo is great the first time you hear it, not the 1,000th as it is the same promo. - Owen Hart doesn't seem like such a great person to me after hearing about some of his ribs. Since he died so tragically, the wrestling world reveres him as a saint, but there are stories about how he used fans to pay for meals and did some pretty cruel practical jokes. If he had not died the way that he did, people would think he was kind of a jerk. - Hulk Hogan is a racist. Even if we strike the n word rant from the record, there is still the prison recording of him telling Nick, "We're gonna live forever, brother. Even when we die, we will be reincarnated and be together forever. As long as God doesn't bring us back as a couple of black guys...." Why does no one ever bring that one up? - For all his faults, and there are many, Vince Russo deserves more credit for the Attitude Era. He comes up with some of the stupidest crap sometimes, but he also came up with some of the best, as well as booked for the midcarders as well. -The most delusional person in the wrestling business is Dave Meltzer. I once saw him claim that no one, including Vince McMahon, knew more about the actual business aspect of wrestling than him. If that is the case, why doesn't he just start his own billion dollar company? do you have a link to that hogan recording? I haven’t heard it before I can not find the audio at the moment. I will look later (after work lol). There used to be a YouTube video of Jim Cornette talking about it after he heard it, but unfortunately, the video is no longer available. But here is a brief article about it: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3179381/New-audio-tape-shows-Hulk-Hogan-making-racially-charged-remarks-time-son-Nick-jailhouse-phone-2008.htmlHere is a quote from said article: The wrestler, whose real name is Terry Gene Bollea, continues: 'You know that God gave you this vibe and this, this, energy that you and I are going to live forever, bro. I just hope we don't come back as a couple. I don't want to say it, blizz-ack gizz-uys, you know what I'm saying?' 'Brutal,' Bollea replies, prompting them both to laugh. Edit: I just realized that the actual audio is in the article.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Sept 18, 2018 12:26:25 GMT -5
- I think the Undertaker's best run was as heel Big Evil. IMHO, he came off as 100 times scarier as a trash talking redneck than as a painted up zombie. - There is something about Daniel Bryan that I dislike. Talent wise, he is great. But he just comes off as a really smug, hipster type in interviews. - The two best promo men of all times are Arn Anderson and Jake Roberts. I love how they told stories grounded in realism that captivated you. I remember a promo that Arn cut on Chris Benoit (during the Sullivan/Woman angle) that went something like this: "The second worst thing in the world is coming home after a hard day's work and seeing another man sitting on your couch, drinking your beer, eating your food, with his arm around your woman. The worst thing in the world is to be the man sitting on that couch as the husband opens the door because deep down, you know that whatever he's about to do to you, you deserve it." I've never heard a promo before or since that captivated me like that. Meanwhile, The Rock talked about shoving things up asses.... - This one isn't really that unpopular around here these days but I find Paul Heyman absolutely boring. His promo is great the first time you hear it, not the 1,000th as it is the same promo. - Owen Hart doesn't seem like such a great person to me after hearing about some of his ribs. Since he died so tragically, the wrestling world reveres him as a saint, but there are stories about how he used fans to pay for meals and did some pretty cruel practical jokes. If he had not died the way that he did, people would think he was kind of a jerk. - Hulk Hogan is a racist. Even if we strike the n word rant from the record, there is still the prison recording of him telling Nick, "We're gonna live forever, brother. Even when we die, we will be reincarnated and be together forever. As long as God doesn't bring us back as a couple of black guys...." Why does no one ever bring that one up? - For all his faults, and there are many, Vince Russo deserves more credit for the Attitude Era. He comes up with some of the stupidest crap sometimes, but he also came up with some of the best, as well as booked for the midcarders as well. -The most delusional person in the wrestling business is Dave Meltzer. I once saw him claim that no one, including Vince McMahon, knew more about the actual business aspect of wrestling than him. If that is the case, why doesn't he just start his own billion dollar company? do you have a link to that hogan recording? I haven’t heard it before I want a link to the full context of that Meltzer statement, too.
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Post by KobashiChop on Sept 18, 2018 12:29:18 GMT -5
HBK/Bret at mania still holds up at a classic. I think those who call it boring either resent HBK for his past or just don't have the energy to watch an hour match that they know the result to, that's been on several highlight reels throughout the years. I went back and watched this recently. They pad out the first half an hour pretty blatantly with the rest holds, but the last 30 is brilliant. It was a brave concept at the time and both guys really nailed it. Should not have gone to overtime though.
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Post by realist on Sept 18, 2018 12:31:05 GMT -5
do you have a link to that hogan recording? I haven’t heard it before I want a link to the full context of that Meltzer statement, too. That one is a bit more difficult for me to get my hands on. It was a snippet played on an episode of Vince Russo's "Castrating the Marks." I don't remember which one, though.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Sept 18, 2018 12:35:44 GMT -5
- Just because a guy can talk is no reason not to give him a manager. It's a gross oversimplification to say that a manager's job is to talk for guys who can't. Managers are also there to build heat, to work at ringside, as a tool for finishes, and to establish guys as top guys--generally, if a WWF newcomer was put with Bobby Heenan, that was an instant signal that he was meant to be taken seriously as a threat to Hogan. Any two random mid-carders in the entire business could be slapped together as a team and with Lou Albano as their manager, they were tag title contenders. Further, if you *only* pair managers with guys who can't talk you're going to expose them as, "This guy needs a manager, he must not be able to do interviews." Nick Bockwinkel "didn't need a manager," but he sure as hell was helped by having Bobby Heenan with him all those years.
- "Vince Russo gave everybody in the mid-card something to do" is the most overrated talking point of his entire tenure in any company. If "everybody has a storyline" then storylines lose their meaning. Giving a low-card guy "something to do" should be a way of elevating them, so it feels special when they do get involved in an angle. Dusty Rhodes from '85-'87 did a far better job at giving his low-carders "something to do" (fighting over the Jr. Heavyweight or Mid-Atlantic title) than Russo ever did.
- Bix said this on Between the Sheets (in a bit of a speculative sense, not a definitive one) and I agree with it: strictly and purely in terms of how to present professional wrestling, the greatest promoter of all-time is not Vince McMahon, but Antonio Pena. AAA was/is a mess in a number of other categories, but again, strictly in terms of presentation and booking, I'm not sure Pena can be touched. Not only was he coming up with all of AAA's gimmicks (after doing the same as booker for CMLL) but he was designing their looks himself, as well as coming up with brilliant, elaborate, dramatic finishes for his big matches and drawing huge money in two countries. Vince has it all over Pena as an overall businessman, but strictly as a wrestling impresario I'm not so sure.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 18, 2018 13:55:42 GMT -5
Being a WCW fan in my teens has left me feeling that the main event of a card doesn't necessarily have to be great for me to enjoy the show. If there's a solid undercard with meaningful matches and characters, then I can just compleely blank the world title scene, I kind of had to learn to do so wth Hulk Hogan's stranglehold on the main event scene.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 18, 2018 14:03:30 GMT -5
Taker doesn't deserve credit for his 'loyalty' to the WWF during the Monday night wars. When he got the chance, he used going to WCW as leverage to force the WWE into letting him drop a gimmick they'd invested so much in, one that was making them money, so he can ride his bike on TV. Taker sat on his hands and did nothing when the kliq were at their worst. For someone people love to canonise as an old school guys who's all about respect and keeping order, there's only one story about him standing up to Shawn and that's at the end of his first run, he did nothing when those clowns were bullying guys like Candido to the point people were afraid he'd kill himself. Well Yoko was the locker room leader at that point not Taker so it should’ve been up to him standing up to the Kliq. Candido also had a lot of heat because of Sunny getting into a fight with Paul Bearer, Paul covered himself while Tammy slapped him so he pushed her away, Candido said he was gonna beat Paul up which pissed off the locker room. Brisco had to essentially grab Chris by the arm and walk him outside of the locker room because they were gonna beat him up. The saddest part was that Bearer was standing up for Candido and telling Sunny to stop cheating on him. There ya go, Chris had heat with Shawn’s group and with Taker’s group. Essentially a John Morrison situation but worse. Dude if you don’t stand up for yourself we won’t and then if you go against us you Def getting the side eye look
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 18, 2018 15:03:00 GMT -5
Well Yoko was the locker room leader at that point not Taker so it should’ve been up to him standing up to the Kliq. Candido also had a lot of heat because of Sunny getting into a fight with Paul Bearer, Paul covered himself while Tammy slapped him so he pushed her away, Candido said he was gonna beat Paul up which pissed off the locker room. Brisco had to essentially grab Chris by the arm and walk him outside of the locker room because they were gonna beat him up. The saddest part was that Bearer was standing up for Candido and telling Sunny to stop cheating on him. There ya go, Chris had heat with Shawn’s group and with Taker’s group. Essentially a John Morrison situation but worse. Dude if you don’t stand up for yourself we won’t and then if you go against us you Def getting the side eye look See I think Morrison’s was worse, Candido just acted like nothing was happening, Johnny apparently chaperoned the dates Melina was having haha
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Post by Larryhausen on Sept 18, 2018 15:43:31 GMT -5
Essentially a John Morrison situation but worse. Dude if you don’t stand up for yourself we won’t and then if you go against us you Def getting the side eye look See I think Morrison’s was worse, Candido just acted like nothing was happening, Johnny apparently chaperoned the dates Melina was having haha How is that worse? Morrison and Melina obviously had an understanding and were two consenting adults. Candido was just in denial and Tammy was taking advantage of him.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 18, 2018 15:55:19 GMT -5
Essentially a John Morrison situation but worse. Dude if you don’t stand up for yourself we won’t and then if you go against us you Def getting the side eye look See I think Morrison’s was worse, Candido just acted like nothing was happening, Johnny apparently chaperoned the dates Melina was having haha Nah Morrison was worse. He knew what Melina was doing but you can guess he was doing him as well. His biggest f** Up was defending her during that Trish situation Candido was worse. Tammy lied to him & Chris being a big idiot defended her time and time again because she came home to him. No telling how many people in WWF locker room hit that while being his friend
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