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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 15, 2018 12:11:21 GMT -5
I mean, not being funny but a lot of the reason this is happening is because a citizen of Saudi Arabia was critical of the regime’s tactics of trying to come off as more progressive for the sake of good PR and, at best, he’s been kidnapped by said government and at worst (until the evidence the Turkish government has comes out) he’s dead. Like, nobody here is saying every government is perfect at all but I don’t know if having a distraction for a few hours is worth the cost of “countless human rights abuses and a journalist who died because he was critical of the government”. I guess, but nothing good will come from pulling out, there's no winning choice, the crux of the blame is Vince for making this deal No, nothing will. But if the choice is “don’t do the show and take the short term blow to finances but gain respect from most other people” and “do the show and feel the long term implications of such an event as a company” (since let’s be frank, WWE’s the only one being affected if the show doesn’t happen, global politics won’t change an iota) then I honestly know what makes me look better as a company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 12:14:13 GMT -5
I mean WWE doing it just sends a message that it's ok to do business with them even though they committed a murder. That's really all I need to know.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,270
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Post by chazraps on Oct 15, 2018 12:14:19 GMT -5
You really should feel a way. WWE, an American company, is taking the money from a foreign country's government to run a show that will air worldwide discussing how great said country is after said country executed an American resident through a 15-person ambush at an embassy just because he was a journalist and printed sources-cited criticism of said country. This is not just a "We don't like who the country voted for" scenario. And it's not just a show to "entertain," it's a show where government money is being spent for WWE to tell the world how great the country is, it's literally the definition of state-funded propaganda. Please take some time to really think about this. I did and I still don't feel nothing sorry to disappoint. It's not WWE responsibility to enact any changes. i'm happy the SA people are actually getting a big show. I don't agree with the politics of the government, but the people getting a big show like this is pretty important. The propaganda part I have a problem with, but it was gonna be part of the deal regardless How do you not feel a way? Do you not see why this is a horrifying issue? Do you think that companies don't at the very least have an obligation not to promote a foreign government after they've executed one of their citizens? This isn't like North Korea getting a basketball game with retired NBA greats to begin smoothing a tense relationship between long-antagonistic nations. Would you be fine with WWE running a show in an ISIL-controlled territory after they executed an American as well? Please, go for a walk and really evaluate the actual gravity of this situation.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,270
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Post by chazraps on Oct 15, 2018 12:16:15 GMT -5
Again I don't agree with the government there, I really think what they do is despicable, but pulling out isn't going to change anything, it will just foster more hatred between civilians of both sides. Nothing positive will come from this, Vince shit the bed on this deal This is demonstrably false.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Oct 15, 2018 12:20:14 GMT -5
I did and I still don't feel nothing sorry to disappoint. It's not WWE responsibility to enact any changes. i'm happy the SA people are actually getting a big show. I don't agree with the politics of the government, but the people getting a big show like this is pretty important. The propaganda part I have a problem with, but it was gonna be part of the deal regardless How do you not feel a way? Do you not see why this is a horrifying issue? Do you think that companies don't at the very least have an obligation not to promote a foreign government after they've executed one of their citizens? This isn't like North Korea getting a basketball game with retired NBA greats to begin smoothing a tense relationship between long-antagonistic nations. Would you be fine with WWE running a show in an ISIL-controlled territory after they executed an American as well? Please, go for a walk and really evaluate the actual gravity of this situation. I honestly could care less. Nothing is gonna change my views, not you, not anyone else. I really think pulling out is a terrible idea.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,270
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Post by chazraps on Oct 15, 2018 12:20:45 GMT -5
I mean, not being funny but a lot of the reason this is happening is because a citizen of Saudi Arabia was critical of the regime’s tactics of trying to come off as more progressive for the sake of good PR and, at best, he’s been kidnapped by said government and at worst (until the evidence the Turkish government has comes out) he’s dead. Like, nobody here is saying every government is perfect at all but I don’t know if having a distraction for a few hours is worth the cost of “countless human rights abuses and a journalist who died because he was critical of the government”. I guess, but nothing good will come from pulling out, there's no winning choice, the crux of the blame is Vince for making this deal Good that comes from pulling out: 1) WWE showing they'll set an example not to take money from a government so many other bow towards after killing an American resident. 2) WWE - for all their rah-rah-rah "GO U-S-A" jingoism could actually make a powerful impactful patriotic statement by not siding doing business with a country that killed an American resident that the company has spent 17 years now telling us how much they love. 3) Citizens of Saudi Arabia see that WWE is willing to take a stand by not curtailing to the regime that oppresses them. Financial mess as it may be, this could still be a tremendous gesture of good will from the company and actually add some genuine back-up to the patriotism they push year-in year-out. The upside of pulling out is MUCH better than the alternative where the only benefit is immediate money.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,270
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Post by chazraps on Oct 15, 2018 12:21:37 GMT -5
How do you not feel a way? Do you not see why this is a horrifying issue? Do you think that companies don't at the very least have an obligation not to promote a foreign government after they've executed one of their citizens? This isn't like North Korea getting a basketball game with retired NBA greats to begin smoothing a tense relationship between long-antagonistic nations. Would you be fine with WWE running a show in an ISIL-controlled territory after they executed an American as well? Please, go for a walk and really evaluate the actual gravity of this situation. I honestly could care less. Nothing is gonna change my views, not you, not anyone else. I really think pulling out is a terrible idea. Why are you not open to processing what is happening? What are you basing your stance on?
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Oct 15, 2018 12:25:35 GMT -5
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Oct 15, 2018 12:27:10 GMT -5
I honestly could care less. Nothing is gonna change my views, not you, not anyone else. I really think pulling out is a terrible idea. Why are you not open to processing what is happening? What are you basing your stance on? Dude. If he doesn't feel a certain way you think he should, then drop it. This threads gone a while without us aiming at another and I'm not a mod but let dude be, he's being civil.
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Post by JTG on Oct 15, 2018 12:28:15 GMT -5
I think Vince will get in trouble with the shareholders, to the point I see him having to resign like Elon Musk
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 12:29:54 GMT -5
I guess, but nothing good will come from pulling out, there's no winning choice, the crux of the blame is Vince for making this deal Good that comes from pulling out: 1) WWE showing they'll set an example not to take money from a government so many other bow towards after killing an American resident. 2) WWE - for all their rah-rah-rah "GO U-S-A" jingoism could actually make a powerful impactful patriotic statement by not siding doing business with a country that killed an American resident that the company has spent 17 years now telling us how much they love. 3) Citizens of Saudi Arabia see that WWE is willing to take a stand by not curtailing to the regime that oppresses them. Financial mess as it may be, this could still be a tremendous gesture of good will from the company and actually add some genuine back-up to the patriotism they push year-in year-out. The upside of pulling out is MUCH better than the alternative where the only benefit is immediate money. Good points but I think WWE's opportunity to parlay this into an uplifiting patriotic statement is passed due and the best they can do now is backpedal. To me any damage control WWE can do at this point is superficial because of that first show they did and their guilty crawl into the next one, whether they're in or they're out Vince played his hand pretty hard and if they pull out we'll know where Vince's heart is. Doesn't make pulling out a bad idea, but he's not gonna look good either way. Though I'm not smart enough to know what kind of legal ramifications there are to reneging on this deal.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,973
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Post by lucas_lee on Oct 15, 2018 12:30:31 GMT -5
I honestly could care less. Nothing is gonna change my views, not you, not anyone else. I really think pulling out is a terrible idea. Why are you not open to processing what is happening? What are you basing your stance on? My family has been apart of a oppressive regime before and a sporting event is the least of our problems. WWE pulling out will solve nothing, honestly, all those reasons you listed isn't going to come from WWE pulling out. It's up to our government to take a hardline stance on this.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Oct 15, 2018 12:33:30 GMT -5
Ok everyone. This is obviously a Political issue but it’s too big a WWE story for it to be ignored, so we’re giving everyone a bit of leeway on this topic. But please, keep it civil.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 12:36:17 GMT -5
Why are you not open to processing what is happening? What are you basing your stance on? My family has been apart of a oppressive regime before and a sporting event is the least of our problems. WWE pulling out will solve nothing, honestly, all those reasons you listed isn't going to come from WWE pulling out. It's up to our government to take a hardline stance on this. A former WWE HOFer who has the power doesn't give a shit and is going to take Saudi money with a smile just like Vince and the rest of the fat cats in the US that does business with them. My issue here is that people think that what Vince is doing is disgusting and unique when this is typical bullshit businessmen practice.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 15, 2018 12:42:57 GMT -5
Good that comes from pulling out: 1) WWE showing they'll set an example not to take money from a government so many other bow towards after killing an American resident. 2) WWE - for all their rah-rah-rah "GO U-S-A" jingoism could actually make a powerful impactful patriotic statement by not siding doing business with a country that killed an American resident that the company has spent 17 years now telling us how much they love. 3) Citizens of Saudi Arabia see that WWE is willing to take a stand by not curtailing to the regime that oppresses them. Financial mess as it may be, this could still be a tremendous gesture of good will from the company and actually add some genuine back-up to the patriotism they push year-in year-out. The upside of pulling out is MUCH better than the alternative where the only benefit is immediate money. Good points but I think WWE's opportunity to parlay this into an uplifiting patriotic statement is passed due and the best they can do now is backpedal. To me any damage control WWE can do at this point is superficial because of that first show they did and their guilty crawl into the next one, whether they're in or they're out Vince played his hand pretty hard and if they pull out we'll know where Vince's heart is. Doesn't make pulling out a bad idea, but he's not gonna look good either way. Though I'm not smart enough to know what kind of legal ramifications there are to reneging on this deal. Oh no, don’t get me wrong, it’ll hurt WWE either way and they didn’t come off well signing this deal in the first place and holding the first show and anything that happens now won’t change that GRR happened. The main difference here is do they want to have a legal risk with the country they did the deal with or with companies they might work with or are working with now. That’s sort of where things are at this point.
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Talent Name
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Talent Name on Oct 15, 2018 12:57:13 GMT -5
Interesting question/thought. If the internet was as common as it is now how do you think people back then would feel about WCW doing a show in North Korea which still is a lot worse than Saudi Arabia
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 13:01:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 13:06:43 GMT -5
So I listented to solomonsters thoughts about this entire thing and he brought up what I thought was an interesting little quandry I guess one could say about how the WWE roster is supposedly this tight nit family and how they all banded together when Meltzer said what he said about Peyton Royce but as it pretains to this all we hear is they do not wanna go but that "family" that piled onto Meltzer is not banding together and he even used Charlottes response to her getting asked about this entire thing as a sort of example and how she just dodged the question entirely and how they are not standing up like they did against Meltzer but simply dodging this entirely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 13:16:02 GMT -5
So I listented to solomonsters thoughts about this entire thing and he brought up what I thought was an interesting little quandry I guess one could say about how the WWE roster is supposedly this tight nit family and how they all banded together when Meltzer said what he said about Peyton Royce but as it pretains to this all we hear is they do not wanna go but that "family" that piled onto Meltzer is not banding together and he even used Charlottes response to her getting asked about this entire thing as a sort of example and how she just dodged the question entirely and how they are not standing up like they did against Meltzer but simply dodging this entirely. He's got a point. I love the roster and all but in this case their families, money and morals are on the line. When they went against Meltzer to stand up for Peyton, they couldn't be impacted. Meltzer ain't anyone important. In this case though there's impact. Things like this really separate which of the stars stand for something and who's just there for a check. I'm waiting for someone to say something but it's like, nah I don't see anything. Not even Cena. There's just something different about people who put themselves in the line of fire knowing they could lose something and yet they still do it because it means a lot to them.
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Post by hbkid718 on Oct 15, 2018 13:17:22 GMT -5
Vince McMahon knew what he was getting into when he signed the 10-year multi-million dollar contract with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. He doesn't care about anything else but money. So, a journalist allegedly getting killed by the government won't stop him from putting more money in his wallet. WWE can't get out of its deal and if they cancel the show, then they might be sued for breach of contract and then they will end up on the wrong side of the Saudi government. Also, logistically, the event is 3 weeks away and it's too late to move the show to somewhere else. The travel is already done, the sets are done. They can just take a set for a soccer stadium and move it to an arena. They are in the UK the week after Crown Jewel and the title of the event & the World Cup Tournament could fit there, but it's not happening. Also, Shawn Michaels is coming out of retirement for a huge payday, which is the only reason he said he's working the show. I don't think he would do it if it's in a small building that he wouldn't get paid a lot for. The event will go on as scheduled. Vince rather have his stockholders happy. He doesn't care about the backlash from the media or anyone else. I don't agree with the Saudi government, but I support WWE. And I will put politics aside and watch it for what it is, 4 hours or more of great wrestling. And if it puts more money in Vince's pocket, dirty or not, that means more money in the wrestlers' pockets, which is what is important.
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