TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 13, 2022 2:11:17 GMT -5
It was, okay? {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} One major problem is no explanation for there being ZERO response to a giant f***ing being coming out of the ocean. Even if you pretend like this was happening at the exact same time that Spider-Man: Far From Home was happening, the Fury on Earth was a Skrull. You mean to tell me Nick is only looking out the window facing away from Earth?
"But why can't these directors make self-contained stories without having to address continuity?"
Because, that's bad writing. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} Your criticism about Eternals isn't necessarily wrong, and in the movie Dane Whitman calls out Sersi for her group not showing up when Thanos was wrecking shit, but your criticism also applies to every movie after Avengers 1 that has something set on Earth. Where were the Avengers in Iron Man 3? Or Thor 2? Or Captain America 2? Or Missouri in Guardians of the Galaxy 2? Or Black Panther? What you're criticizing is part and parcel of a lot of shared universes, especially when those universes get larger, more complicated, and last for longer periods of time. I'd much rather have a good story first, from a good creative second, about characters I like third, that all exists within a shared universe I like fourth. But with Phase 4, we're at the point that the tail is wagging the dog: people determine what constitutes a good story by looking at how the shared universe is serviced first, characters second, creatives third, then the actual story at the end. To me, save No Way Home and maybe WandaVision, Phase 4 has suffered for this, but I see and read about so many people who are into what I just described. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} My criticism isn't limited to this one movie, in fact all the movies you called out are just as guilty.
Sorry, you can't pat yourself on the back for Infinity War and Endgame if you're not willing to do due diligence in the future. It needs to be explained one way or the other, even if it's just a mention on a news report after. You can't just say nothing. Being part of a shared universe means having to explain it. So even if your auteur director doesn't want to or think to include some sort of reconciliation, the executive producer and curator of this shared universe needs to put his foot down and make sure it's done. Because this movie makes Fury's little organization, and the Sorcerer Supreme look completely incompetent.
If the Eternals hadn't decided to turn their backs on their mission, Earth would be destroyed because Fury and Strange weren't doing what they're supposed to.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 13, 2022 8:32:32 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}What sort of response? I mean, assuming it happens as presented in the movie it begins and ends in under ten minutes. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} And Strange can move army sized units anywhere on the planet in seconds. The planet was going to explode and no one cared to move? {Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}When Strange brought in the armies in Endgame he had foreknowledge of what was going to happen. So as soon as he was unsnapped he could contact Wong and the others to prepare their armies for the big moment. Which they had some decent time to do.
Compare to Eternals when by the time Strange realized a problem was happening and contacted the various forces to assemble then the problem was resolved. Strange is also not omniscient. The sorcerers dont know of the TVA for instance. No reason they would be aware the Celestials use planets as eggs.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Jan 13, 2022 10:57:46 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} Your criticism about Eternals isn't necessarily wrong, and in the movie Dane Whitman calls out Sersi for her group not showing up when Thanos was wrecking shit, but your criticism also applies to every movie after Avengers 1 that has something set on Earth. Where were the Avengers in Iron Man 3? Or Thor 2? Or Captain America 2? Or Missouri in Guardians of the Galaxy 2? Or Black Panther? What you're criticizing is part and parcel of a lot of shared universes, especially when those universes get larger, more complicated, and last for longer periods of time. I'd much rather have a good story first, from a good creative second, about characters I like third, that all exists within a shared universe I like fourth. But with Phase 4, we're at the point that the tail is wagging the dog: people determine what constitutes a good story by looking at how the shared universe is serviced first, characters second, creatives third, then the actual story at the end. To me, save No Way Home and maybe WandaVision, Phase 4 has suffered for this, but I see and read about so many people who are into what I just described. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} My criticism isn't limited to this one movie, in fact all the movies you called out are just as guilty.
Sorry, you can't pat yourself on the back for Infinity War and Endgame if you're not willing to do due diligence in the future. It needs to be explained one way or the other, even if it's just a mention on a news report after. You can't just say nothing. Being part of a shared universe means having to explain it. So even if your auteur director doesn't want to or think to include some sort of reconciliation, the executive producer and curator of this shared universe needs to put his foot down and make sure it's done. Because this movie makes Fury's little organization, and the Sorcerer Supreme look completely incompetent.
If the Eternals hadn't decided to turn their backs on their mission, Earth would be destroyed because Fury and Strange weren't doing what they're supposed to. These are all great points that I hope are addressed...
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 13, 2022 12:07:07 GMT -5
If you read a solo issue of a comic, you don't expect other characters to show up unless they're advertised cuz it's not their book. Sometimes there might be a nod to larger events, but not always.
The movies function exactly the same way. One can accept that or not, but that's always been the way superhero stores have functioned.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jan 13, 2022 12:07:31 GMT -5
Had a lot of issues with this. Felt like the first act dragged forever, though I enjoyed the last two acts. I think the issue that still had me grating my teeth was the explanation why they didn't confront Thanos. Not interfering with human wars is fine, that made sense. Thanos was not just a human conflict. Half of the UNIVERSE was snapped away. At that point its less a Earth thing, and more of a galactic thing, something I would assume they'd have more authority over.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 13, 2022 12:19:41 GMT -5
Had a lot of issues with this. Felt like the first act dragged forever, though I enjoyed the last two acts. I think the issue that still had me grating my teeth was the explanation why they didn't confront Thanos. Not interfering with human wars is fine, that made sense. Thanos was not just a human conflict. Half of the UNIVERSE was snapped away. At that point its less a Earth thing, and more of a galactic thing, something I would assume they'd have more authority over. Well to be fair they didnt know that {Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}they were only protecting humanity and Earth from Deviants to act as fuel for the birth of a Celestial. Even then they or Arisheim could have taken an immortals view of things and say the Snap would only be a setback for a couple hundred years. No big deal.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Jan 13, 2022 12:21:38 GMT -5
Had a lot of issues with this. Felt like the first act dragged forever, though I enjoyed the last two acts. I think the issue that still had me grating my teeth was the explanation why they didn't confront Thanos. Not interfering with human wars is fine, that made sense. Thanos was not just a human conflict. Half of the UNIVERSE was snapped away. At that point its less a Earth thing, and more of a galactic thing, something I would assume they'd have more authority over. The beginning was long and I think cut have been shortened down, but since it was an intro to a new "team", I accepted it. {Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I may be wrong, but I think at first they truly believed Arishem but by the end, they realized he was BS and had they understood that when Thanos was around, they would've intervened. That's just my take and I could be completely off.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 13, 2022 12:24:50 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW} My criticism isn't limited to this one movie, in fact all the movies you called out are just as guilty.
Sorry, you can't pat yourself on the back for Infinity War and Endgame if you're not willing to do due diligence in the future. It needs to be explained one way or the other, even if it's just a mention on a news report after. You can't just say nothing. Being part of a shared universe means having to explain it. So even if your auteur director doesn't want to or think to include some sort of reconciliation, the executive producer and curator of this shared universe needs to put his foot down and make sure it's done. Because this movie makes Fury's little organization, and the Sorcerer Supreme look completely incompetent.
If the Eternals hadn't decided to turn their backs on their mission, Earth would be destroyed because Fury and Strange weren't doing what they're supposed to. These are all great points that I hope are addressed... Fury and Strange cant know everything. Remember Earth could have been enslaved by HYDRA without Cap. Where were the sorcerers then. Or why didnt Iron Man find out about HYDRA when he was hacking SHIELD. The Ancient One warned Hulk about alternate timelines so she wasnt aware that there was a TVA eliminating them. Fury knew there were Black Widow assassins but did he know it was almost an army with their own Helicarrier? Its just a conceit of shared universe where every event cant be a giant crossover with everyone getting involved. If Atlantis is coming soon there will have to be reasons we have not heard from them yet.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Jan 13, 2022 12:36:15 GMT -5
These are all great points that I hope are addressed... Fury and Strange cant know everything. Remember Earth could have been enslaved by HYDRA without Cap. Where were the sorcerers then. Or why didnt Iron Man find out about HYDRA when he was hacking SHIELD. The Ancient One warned Hulk about alternate timelines so she wasnt aware that there was a TVA eliminating them. Fury knew there were Black Widow assassins but did he know it was almost an army with their own Helicarrier? Its just a conceit of shared universe where every event cant be a giant crossover with everyone getting involved. If Atlantis is coming soon there will have to be reasons we have not heard from them yet. You're probably right. I'm expecting too much. LOL
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 13, 2022 13:00:35 GMT -5
These are all great points that I hope are addressed... Fury and Strange cant know everything. Remember Earth could have been enslaved by HYDRA without Cap. Where were the sorcerers then. Or why didnt Iron Man find out about HYDRA when he was hacking SHIELD. The Ancient One warned Hulk about alternate timelines so she wasnt aware that there was a TVA eliminating them. Fury knew there were Black Widow assassins but did he know it was almost an army with their own Helicarrier? Its just a conceit of shared universe where every event cant be a giant crossover with everyone getting involved. If Atlantis is coming soon there will have to be reasons we have not heard from them yet. {Spoiler}Plus a planet-sized Celestial tearing itself out of the Earth's surface seems somewhat above the pay grade of Fury's SHIELD: Skrull Division and out of the wheelhouse of the sorcerers.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jan 13, 2022 13:42:36 GMT -5
Fury and Strange cant know everything. Remember Earth could have been enslaved by HYDRA without Cap. Where were the sorcerers then. Or why didnt Iron Man find out about HYDRA when he was hacking SHIELD. The Ancient One warned Hulk about alternate timelines so she wasnt aware that there was a TVA eliminating them. Fury knew there were Black Widow assassins but did he know it was almost an army with their own Helicarrier? Its just a conceit of shared universe where every event cant be a giant crossover with everyone getting involved. If Atlantis is coming soon there will have to be reasons we have not heard from them yet. You're probably right. I'm expecting too much. LOL Its part of watching stuff like this. You make some good points but sometimes you just have to accept some stuff. Like Ant Mans powers being flexible with mass. One thing to remember also is that the characters in fiction should not know everything the audience knows. For instance in DC the average person should not know Superman has a secret identity. We know but why would they? He doesnt wear a mask after all. Though sometimes the creators forget this as well. In Eternals there is no reason the average person should know who Doctor Strange is, much less that he is a wizard.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jan 13, 2022 14:26:00 GMT -5
So finally saw Eternals. Good film way better than the 2 GOTG films. But I didn't expect the Eternals to do well at box office. Until the Gaiman run none of their comics were big hits.
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Post by Ryushinku on Jan 13, 2022 15:54:53 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}After avoiding almost all spoilers for several months, I finally managed to watch all three of the Phase 4 films this week. It was fascinating to finally do so.
But, gosh, I wish I liked this film more.
Some of the imagery is beautiful. There are big ideas and themes, with a mixed cast that's a world away from Generic Young White Guy.
The flaws are simply too strong. The central cast is just too big, too many characters fighting each other for narrative oxygen and scrabbling to make a mark, leading to the paradox of a film that's both too long and flabby and without time to do them all justice. I see now a review describing it like "watching Avengers: Endgame cold after not watching any of the other films", and that's a pretty good take.
There's also a bad lack of chemistry in the leads as well, what SHOULD be this soaring heartfelt romance between Sersi and Ikaris leading to shocking betrayal is just flat and the emotional bits miss. Chan is fine, Madden seemed to be aiming for "inner turmoil" and landed on "wooden plank", but they just don't have a spark together.
I said heartfelt, and I think having watched Shang Chi for the first time last week, that's a film with a lot of heart to it. Eternals feels distant, a bit sterile.
Really disappointed. I know the reviews were rather lukewarm, but still, this is the first real miss with me with the MCU for quite a few years.
Like I say, I wish I liked this more, and I wanted to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 16:02:52 GMT -5
Yeah it probably should have been like an 8 episode series for all they were trying to cram in there.
When people ask about it. I say it was fine. Long and kinda boring, but if your an MCU completist watch it. Overwise I'd wait for Spider-Man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2022 16:28:10 GMT -5
These are all great points that I hope are addressed... Fury and Strange cant know everything. Remember Earth could have been enslaved by HYDRA without Cap. Where were the sorcerers then. Or why didnt Iron Man find out about HYDRA when he was hacking SHIELD. The Ancient One warned Hulk about alternate timelines so she wasnt aware that there was a TVA eliminating them. Fury knew there were Black Widow assassins but did he know it was almost an army with their own Helicarrier? Its just a conceit of shared universe where every event cant be a giant crossover with everyone getting involved. If Atlantis is coming soon there will have to be reasons we have not heard from them yet. This problem is only going to get worse with FF coming and eventually mutants (the explanation for that one is gonna be a whole can of worms) unless from the get go they just put the mutants on Krakoa or just run with an ongoing rumor about the comics they are gonna go to mars.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 13, 2022 16:32:43 GMT -5
If you read a solo issue of a comic, you don't expect other characters to show up unless they're advertised cuz it's not their book. Sometimes there might be a nod to larger events, but not always. The movies function exactly the same way. One can accept that or not, but that's always been the way superhero stores have functioned. Yeah, when it comes to this sort of thing, it's just best to MST3k Mantra a lot of the "why wasn't so and so involved with this big event previously?" stuff.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Jan 13, 2022 16:37:07 GMT -5
Yeah it probably should have been like an 8 episode series for all they were trying to cram in there. You know... I wonder if we are going to look back in a couple years and think a series would've been a better way to bring them in. Maybe not... but I actually think it could've worked better as a Disney+ series. I just think (as of now) they think the Eternals are going to be a bigger part.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 13, 2022 16:49:29 GMT -5
I'm guessing the fear with introducing the Eternals through a TV series was that it'd meet a similar fate to the Inhumans series that was a flop in every sense of the word. Granted, the Inhumans series was dreadful in general for a lot more reasons than "they're a weighty concept not already established in the movies."
Though I'd love to see a spinoff D+ series with either Kingo or {Spoiler}Eros. Harry Styles has this weird charisma to him where I think he'd rock a solo Starfox series.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 13, 2022 17:35:38 GMT -5
I'm guessing the fear with introducing the Eternals through a TV series was that it'd meet a similar fate to the Inhumans series that was a flop in every sense of the word. Granted, the Inhumans series was dreadful in general for a lot more reasons than "they're a weighty concept not already established in the movies." Though I'd love to see a spinoff D+ series with either Kingo or {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Eros. Harry Styles has this weird charisma to him where I think he'd rock a solo Starfox series. I at least somewhat cared about what would happen to the Eternals, and they had their charming moments in spite of the more serious tone. The Inhumans just had their main cast making dumb mental mistakes and everyone felt like a block of wood decorated with superhero themed paper maiche.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on Jan 14, 2022 12:20:45 GMT -5
I'm guessing the fear with introducing the Eternals through a TV series was that it'd meet a similar fate to the Inhumans series that was a flop in every sense of the word. Granted, the Inhumans series was dreadful in general for a lot more reasons than "they're a weighty concept not already established in the movies." Though I'd love to see a spinoff D+ series with either Kingo or {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Eros. Harry Styles has this weird charisma to him where I think he'd rock a solo Starfox series. I at least somewhat cared about what would happen to the Eternals, and they had their charming moments in spite of the more serious tone. The Inhumans just had their main cast making dumb mental mistakes and everyone felt like a block of wood decorated with superhero themed paper maiche. I was so excited for the Inhumans.... and as each episode went by, the cringe got worse and worse. I really tried to like it, but it was bad.
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