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Post by Alice Syndrome on Nov 21, 2018 21:11:17 GMT -5
William Regal, Johnny Saint, and Drake Maverick (peepants aside) are examples of the GM conxepr done right currently. Hang on, if we add scarily competent GM Paige in there, I see a theme emerging... |
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Nov 22, 2018 1:44:43 GMT -5
My first instinct is to agree, then I remember that I love Regal. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the concept it just needs updating a bit. Mostly they should support the story rather than be the story and drop boring rambling promos to set up the weeks main event. If they come out in front of a crowd they need a good reason. I still think Regal is good because he only shows up in backstage segments apart from breaking up fights and announcing matches, or doing official duties like contract signings. Makes him look like he's actually doing his job. He also has management books in his office. In kayfabe it's crazy he's never been promoted after nxt has grown so much under his management. |
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Post by facethatrunstheplace on Nov 22, 2018 2:42:36 GMT -5
Referring to the general manager concept. Can't we just have Vince in his office when there is an announcement to make, ala Jack Tunney? Heel or face, they passed their expiration date countless years ago. No because Vince dosen't really want to be on tv anymore. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 22, 2018 4:12:37 GMT -5
I don't necessarily think GM's are a bad thing. It's just when things get lazy that we have a problem. I look at William Regal as an example of the GM concept done right. Regal is fairly neutral, and just makes big announcements or furthers a story. That being said...I was really hoping Johnny Ace as GM would be that he was neutral, but would accidentally favor the heels 'cause he's an idiot that thinks he's fair. Alas...tropes. Inept corporate chump Johnny Ace was legitimately one of the most interesting possibilities WWE pissed away in that whole weird middle era. They really did have something interesting going with that idea and having him bumble his way through things. We've had goofy authority figures before, but bumbling corporate incompetence is a solid fiction staple we don't see much of in WWE where usually people are just evil instead. And then of course they burned that neat idea to the ground before too long and he just became A Bad Guy. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Nov 22, 2018 6:42:03 GMT -5
Referring to the general manager concept. Can't we just have Vince in his office when there is an announcement to make, ala Jack Tunney? Heel or face, they passed their expiration date countless years ago. No because Vince dosen't really want to be on tv anymore. It's funny how there were a good 5 years where he kept doing stupid crap to get written out, like blowing up a limo, dropping a sign on his head, and getting his face kicked in by Orton, but the thing that actually worked to get him off TV was just not going on TV. |
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Nov 22, 2018 7:11:22 GMT -5
Heel authority figures in WWE off the top of my head
Sgt Slaughter
Vince McMahon
Shane McMahon
Shawn Michaels
William Regal
Ric Flair
Eric Bischoff
Paul Heyman
Kurt Angle
Triple H
Stephanie McMahon
Vicky Guerrero
Johnny Ace
AJ Lee?
The Coach
Kane
The Laptop
Let this die.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Nov 22, 2018 8:43:34 GMT -5
Shane would’ve been best for the Jack Tunney role. They were one syllable off. "Here comes the Tunney, here we go..." |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Nov 22, 2018 8:48:40 GMT -5
A Tunney authority figure is all they need. Oh sure, Jack “on the take” Tunney is what we need to keep things moral and right, you make me sick Gorilla Monsoon Best president since Noriega! |
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Nov 22, 2018 8:55:41 GMT -5
I'm down for a Jack Tunney III to run this company!!!
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Nov 22, 2018 9:20:00 GMT -5
It's time for the heel authority figure trope to die. Combined with heel-dominant storylines, the entire atmosphere is one in which fans increasingly question the motivations of babyfaces for not simply walking away, and indeed see the faces' willingness to work within the situation not as resolve, but as weakness. So long as it appears that a McMahon is pulling the strings, even the face GMs are as much a part of the booking problem as the heel GMs have been.
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 22, 2018 10:48:24 GMT -5
I’ve accepted it’s not going away. If anything they’ll keep it for premature retirees ala Alexa Bliss who is rumored to become one
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Post by MrElijah on Nov 22, 2018 11:12:27 GMT -5
Shane would’ve been best for the Jack Tunney role. They were one syllable off. "Here comes the Tunney, here we go..." Tunney, Tunney, Tunney, Tunney, Tunney! Ching, Ching, He's on the take! Give him the bills and a match he'll make! |
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Nov 22, 2018 13:10:54 GMT -5
The trope is not stupid (to me) the idea of making them anything other than neutral is.
Babyface GM get annoying because they make the heels lives hell and sometimes (in kayfabe) have them wrestle injured.
Heel GMs get annoying because they interfere in matches to screw faces and you forget about other heels because you want the Heel GM to get a comeuppance.
I'll echo the Regal sentiment; He's a GM done right.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 23, 2018 12:57:18 GMT -5
Wrestling needs more Tunney style authority figures. Or at least management like New Japan’s where they stay out of the way of the talent, and book accordingly to who’s in line for titles and who has beef with each other.
I like Dario on LU because those writers push the Evil GM concept to its breaking point, where he’s a flat out criminal. But for more realistic companies, I think face/neutral authority is the way to go.
Otherwise, promotions/shows will fall into a trap where there’s too much heat and the faces never get a break, like Raw’s currently dealing with. Or worse, like in some older TNA storylines where the theme was basically “this company sucks.”
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 13:08:43 GMT -5
El Jefe rises above all other authroity figures because he only intervenes when necesarry and usually has his own things going on which explains why he intervenes in certain situations more than others. And he never shows a bias unless again it directly affects him And his reason for basically letting his roster get away with everything they do is because he just wants violence because violence is what saved he and his brother from their mother.  And when u have a name plate on your desk declaring YOU'RE KIND OF A BIG DEAL how can it be denied lol |
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Post by Shai on Nov 23, 2018 15:06:14 GMT -5
My first instinct is to agree, then I remember that I love Regal. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the concept it just needs updating a bit. Mostly they should support the story and drop boring rambling promos to set up the weeks main event. If they come out in front of a crowd they need a good reason. I thought they had a perfect thing going with Kurt. I miss my socially awkward Raw GM Kurt Angle! Kurt as the long suffering Dad of Raw was perfect for me |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 23, 2018 16:14:53 GMT -5
One important thing about where Cueto takes it is that he's a villain in much more of a typical dramatic sense; his double dealing and attempts to screw people over, make new problems to get out of problems he's made, and try to chessmaster his way through everything to not-always-useful effects makes him feel like a fictional character instead of like the company grandstanding its own existence. Too many heel authority figures in WWE are capable of wielding absolute power and screwing everyone over to very scant few repurcussions. They come out on top every time and are almost never outmaneuvered. Cueto is out there cutting deals with the devil and playing the man behind the curtain. Like I hate to just harp on "LU is the platonic ideal of wrestling as a television program", but Cueto serves as a really easy to show contrast in how the shows are written in terms of plotting and how the characters exist in fiction. And it's not a favourable contrast for WWE.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Nov 23, 2018 16:19:50 GMT -5
One important thing about where Cueto takes it is that he's a villain in much more of a typical dramatic sense; his double dealing and attempts to screw people over, make new problems to get out of problems he's made, and try to chessmaster his way through everything to not-always-useful effects makes him feel like a fictional character instead of like the company grandstanding its own existence. Too many heel authority figures in WWE are capable of wielding absolute power and screwing everyone over to very scant few repurcussions. They come out on top every time and are almost never outmaneuvered. Cueto is out there cutting deals with the devil and playing the man behind the curtain. Like I hate to just harp on "LU is the platonic ideal of wrestling as a television program", but Cueto serves as a really easy to show contrast in how the shows are written in terms of plotting and how the characters exist in fiction. And it's not a favourable contrast for WWE. This is one of the reasons I think there's people I have in my life who's never 'gotten' wrestling but I've managed to get them hooked on LU. |
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Post by sunnytaker on Nov 23, 2018 16:29:50 GMT -5
Authority figures Haven't really changed any since the Attitude era. It's still a crutch that the authority figure makes matches when the show has already started, it's a bad GM who hasn't got a show planned and they are kind of lucky they is usually an opening promo somebody can interrupt so the GM can make an appropriate match for later in the night. along those lines i'd laugh if one night the show opens, and no one is in the ring, no one's music hits and we're left with an awkward silence. cut to the GM backstage running around frantically looking for anyone they can send out to the ring because they don't have any matches planned for the show figuring it'll all take care of itself like it does every week. GM finally runs into someone who hasn;t been on tv in ages (say Zach ryder) and orders them to the ring. ryder's music hits, he comes out to the ring and gets a mic and says "well i'm out here, I don't know why. I don't have a match for tonight or anything but..." when Drew McIntyre's music hits to interrupt him. cut back to the GM in the back smiling as he/she watches on a monitor as everything is back as it should be and the show can finally go on. |
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Nov 23, 2018 16:46:53 GMT -5
But how else will we stack the odds against the faces and build drama? I mean they’ve done this for 20 years now without making many changes to the formula, why change anything at all?
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