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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 26, 2018 10:02:34 GMT -5
You’re wrong! His family also hates him. That being said, he was talented, he drew not only in Mexico but almost anywhere he went. Other than that you’re correct, he never sold at all haha, and I don’t think there’s tape of him losing. There’s a funny video of Mil and his brother Dos Caras working against Brody and Hansen in All Japan. Well Mil was up to his usual tactics of not selling and working stiff, Brody got fed up and just hit him back, for the rest of the match Mil Mascaras avoided Brody and just worked with Hansen. I'll beg to differ, sir. I might be a little biased as I think Mil Mascaras is absolutely terrible, but outside of Mexico and southwestern US, I can't think of anytime he drew. When I say that, I mean he, himself, not that he was paired with someone in that territory that could draw regardless of the opponent. He was constantly booked everywhere despite being a pain in the ass that didn’t lose or even sold, if the promoters were able to put up with him that should tell you something about his drawing power. Piece of shit drew lol.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 26, 2018 10:07:34 GMT -5
If Inoki really wanted to hurt Ali, he would. Not by being a tough guy or anything, but trapping legs with legs and then submissions to someone who's not trained in the thing can be very hurtful. And yes, the match was going to be a work but it was Ali's handlers that messed the whole thing by changing the rules at the last hour. Inoki didn't double cross anyone there, he just adhered to the rules as they wanted. Also, Inoki and Ali became friends over the whole ordeal. Also, all his "Different Style Fights" were works and he had a bunch of them, not just Ali and "a fat guy" (I suppose you're talking about the Great Antonio thing, which was normal wrestling match that Inoki started shooting in because Antonio wasn't selling anything). Willem Ruska, Chuck Weppner, Akram Pahlawan , Willie Williams. All legit greats in their fields and all former Inoki opponents. Inoki double crossed Ali, if it was always a work then why did he kicked him for real and tried to pull guard? Regardless that match was a complete fiasco. Fumi Saito said that the press made fun of the match in Japan but it made Inoki a mainstream star because of the publicity. Yes Inoki had other worked mixed style matches, maybe that gave him the idea of putting his fake wrestlers in real fights.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 26, 2018 10:47:51 GMT -5
Inoki by far. Mascaras and Hogan were egotistical and Hogan's ego hurt companies, but Inoki pretty much killed any credibility in Japan by putting wrestlers into legit MMA fights. Wrestlers are tough, but that was such a bad decision that led to business sinking so far that Inoki didn't have a choice but to sell New Japan - and they've barely acknowledged him since. Inoki convinced himself that he was the toughest man ever just because he kicked Muhammad Ali on the shins and beating up a fat guy, therefore his fake wrestlers should also be tough. I think that’s part of the reason why I preferred All Japan growing up. Baba never tried to pass the bullshit pro wrestling as real like Inoki did on a regular basis. if you look up "mark for yourself" in a wrestling dictionary it should be a picture of Inoki. guy legit believed that taking liberties with a couple guys who couldn't fight back made him some kind of tough guy. damn shame he didn't put HIMSELF in those MMA matches because seeing him get knocked on his ass in like a minute would've been epic. dude bought into his own kayfabe tough guy hype so bad it almost killed his whole company.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 26, 2018 11:03:27 GMT -5
Inoki convinced himself that he was the toughest man ever just because he kicked Muhammad Ali on the shins and beating up a fat guy, therefore his fake wrestlers should also be tough. I think that’s part of the reason why I preferred All Japan growing up. Baba never tried to pass the bullshit pro wrestling as real like Inoki did on a regular basis. if you look up "mark for yourself" in a wrestling dictionary it should be a picture of Inoki. guy legit believed that taking liberties with a couple guys who couldn't fight back made him some kind of tough guy. damn shame he didn't put HIMSELF in those MMA matches because seeing him get knocked on his ass in like a minute would've been epic. dude bought into his own kayfabe tough guy hype so bad it almost killed his whole company. Fumi Saito said that Inoki was what would happen if Hogan actually was the booker and there wasn’t a promoter who put a stop to him. He lost his main even guys in Mutoh and Hashimoto because they got fed up with him. There’s also a funny story when Brock Lesnar was negotiating with New Japan to come over. He made it clear that Inoki under no circumstances would slap him.
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Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
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Post by Fundertaker on Dec 26, 2018 12:21:44 GMT -5
If Inoki really wanted to hurt Ali, he would. Not by being a tough guy or anything, but trapping legs with legs and then submissions to someone who's not trained in the thing can be very hurtful. And yes, the match was going to be a work but it was Ali's handlers that messed the whole thing by changing the rules at the last hour. Inoki didn't double cross anyone there, he just adhered to the rules as they wanted. Also, Inoki and Ali became friends over the whole ordeal. Also, all his "Different Style Fights" were works and he had a bunch of them, not just Ali and "a fat guy" (I suppose you're talking about the Great Antonio thing, which was normal wrestling match that Inoki started shooting in because Antonio wasn't selling anything). Willem Ruska, Chuck Weppner, Akram Pahlawan , Willie Williams. All legit greats in their fields and all former Inoki opponents. Inoki double crossed Ali, if it was always a work then why did he kicked him for real and tried to pull guard? Regardless that match was a complete fiasco. Fumi Saito said that the press made fun of the match in Japan but it made Inoki a mainstream star because of the publicity. Yes Inoki had other worked mixed style matches, maybe that gave him the idea of putting his fake wrestlers in real fights. As I said, it WAS going to be a work. Then Ali's people changed the rules and he went for business for himself, since they were "afraid he would try to shoot", he basically went for it, I guess in his crazy wacky mind, in "rightful retribution". And the him being on his back was part of the rules: Inoki wasn't alowed to grapple and could only kick if he had a knee on the mat, so he did just that. I also believe part of why Inoki pushed for NJPW wrestlers to do MMA matches was because of former NJPW trainees having success in the area (Takada, Maeda, Masa Funaki, MiSu) so if they could, why couldn't other guys who trained the same way and one was even an olympian (Nakanishi)? Well, I guess someone forgot to tell him about how long it took to prepare for a real fight against a prepared opponent in the 2000's and even then how you need to actually be good at it to succeed.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 26, 2018 12:36:09 GMT -5
Inoki double crossed Ali, if it was always a work then why did he kicked him for real and tried to pull guard? Regardless that match was a complete fiasco. Fumi Saito said that the press made fun of the match in Japan but it made Inoki a mainstream star because of the publicity. Yes Inoki had other worked mixed style matches, maybe that gave him the idea of putting his fake wrestlers in real fights. As I said, it WAS going to be a work. Then Ali's people changed the rules and he went for business for himself, since they were "afraid he would try to shoot", he basically went for it, I guess in his crazy wacky mind, in "rightful retribution". And the him being on his back was part of the rules: Inoki wasn't alowed to grapple and could only kick if he had a knee on the mat, so he did just that. I also believe part of why Inoki pushed for NJPW wrestlers to do MMA matches was because of former NJPW trainees having success in the area (Takada, Maeda, Masa Funaki, MiSu) so if they could, why couldn't other guys who trained the same way and one was even an olympian (Nakanishi)? Well, I guess someone forgot to tell him about how long it took to prepare for a real fight against a prepared opponent in the 2000's and even then how you need to actually be good at it to succeed. Well that “retribution” and going into business for himself, hurt his reputation. If it wasn’t because he was the promoter and owner, people would’ve been wary to use him, Vince only did business with Inoki because he paid him to use the wwf guys. The problem wasn’t lack of preparation for the fight, the problem was that other than Ogawa, those guys were either frauds or their best fighting days were behind them. You can prepare for years but a fake rassler won’t do shit against Cro Cop. In his senile brain, Inoki thought that taking liberties was the same as being a tough guy and that fake wrestling was the strongest martial art.
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Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
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Post by Fundertaker on Dec 26, 2018 12:52:36 GMT -5
As I said, it WAS going to be a work. Then Ali's people changed the rules and he went for business for himself, since they were "afraid he would try to shoot", he basically went for it, I guess in his crazy wacky mind, in "rightful retribution". And the him being on his back was part of the rules: Inoki wasn't alowed to grapple and could only kick if he had a knee on the mat, so he did just that. I also believe part of why Inoki pushed for NJPW wrestlers to do MMA matches was because of former NJPW trainees having success in the area (Takada, Maeda, Masa Funaki, MiSu) so if they could, why couldn't other guys who trained the same way and one was even an olympian (Nakanishi)? Well, I guess someone forgot to tell him about how long it took to prepare for a real fight against a prepared opponent in the 2000's and even then how you need to actually be good at it to succeed. Well that “retribution” and going into business for himself, hurt his reputation. If it wasn’t because he was the promoter and owner, people would’ve been wary to use him, Vince only did business with Inoki because he paid him to use the wwf guys. The problem wasn’t lack of preparation for the fight, the problem was that other than Ogawa, those guys were either frauds or their best fighting days were behind them. You can prepare for years but a fake rassler won’t do shit against Cro Cop. In his senile brain, Inoki thought that taking liberties was the same as being a tough guy and that fake wrestling was the strongest martial art. Oh no doubt about his reputation... within the business. He did make it out of it as a bonafied star to the mainstream Japanese public which worked for him in the long run, making him drink even more in his own hype I guess.
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Post by Aceorton on Dec 26, 2018 18:34:16 GMT -5
Not in the top 3 or 5 or maybe even 10, but the first person I thought of here was Jesse Ventura. Everything out of the guy's mouth is questionable/exaggerated self-promotion, from his military past to his role in the '80s wrestling boom to his Hollywood career to his political influence. The unnecessary intros to the live crowd at some of the earlier WrestleManias were so clearly meant to placate his ego, and he was always shoehorning in hellos to his family and references to his real-life agent, or suggesting he himself would return to the ring to challenge Hogan even when his career was long over. He did put over guys he really, really liked (Savage, the Bulldogs, Rick Rude), so at least it wasn't always about him. But it seemed like much of the time it was.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 18:35:03 GMT -5
Hogan. Not even close.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 26, 2018 19:37:44 GMT -5
He’s the indy version of the biggest egomaniacs, Low Ki.
Hates losing, tries to get away from losing. He had the nerve to say that nobody would buy it if Cesaro defeated him in PWG.
Deliberately works stiff and tries to hurt people.
Yelled at Tammy Sytch “you will respect Low Ki!” because she accidentally sat on his chair.
Had the nerve to ask a promoter for more money because he wanted to do a training camp in preparation for “fighting” Matt Riddle, his words not mine, it was a fake wrestling match not a fight. He eventually no showed the event and kept the money.
Tried to stiff Akebono in Japan. Akebono repaid his fighting spirit by breaking Low Ki’s ribs.
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Post by mauled on Dec 27, 2018 2:21:27 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan - Terry Bollea swore in a Court of law that his penis size grows when he becomes Hulk Hogan 😳 How can anyone top that in the ego department.
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Post by evilone on Dec 27, 2018 6:12:20 GMT -5
Wrestling runs on egos. It's the most primitive form of fun with very primal hierarchy structure like within wild animals. Technically wrestling is fake and scripted but if you are scripted to loose all the time your value drops and you can't ask for more money cause your no hot commodity. How do you make yourself one? By acting like a spoiled brat asking for moon and stars and guess what? Promoters are also primal beasts who want what they can't have. It's a sneaky game.
I would completely support something like guaranteed two thirds positive televised win/loose ratio if someone could actually negotiate that, as well as guaranteed number of days with a belt, guaranteed televised main events with clean pin wins, etc. That's how you protect yourself.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 27, 2018 7:24:28 GMT -5
He’s the indy version of the biggest egomaniacs, Low Ki. Hates losing, tries to get away from losing. He had the nerve to say that nobody would buy it if Cesaro defeated him in PWG. Deliberately works stiff and tries to hurt people. Yelled at Tammy Sytch “you will respect Low Ki!” because she accidentally sat on his chair. Had the nerve to ask a promoter for more money because he wanted to do a training camp in preparation for “fighting” Matt Riddle, his words not mine, it was a fake wrestling match not a fight. He eventually no showed the event and kept the money. Tried to stiff Akebono in Japan. Akebono repaid his fighting spirit by breaking Low Ki’s ribs. Which sort of makes me wonder what he'll try to pull when Bauer finally asks him to drop the MLW title. Especially since he's leaning hard into that "undefeated for 14 years" stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 8:18:05 GMT -5
Ki losing the MLW title will be a three way dance with the other guy taking the pin
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thirteen3
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Post by thirteen3 on Dec 27, 2018 9:06:58 GMT -5
He’s the indy version of the biggest egomaniacs, Low Ki. Hates losing, tries to get away from losing. He had the nerve to say that nobody would buy it if Cesaro defeated him in PWG. Deliberately works stiff and tries to hurt people. Yelled at Tammy Sytch “you will respect Low Ki!” because she accidentally sat on his chair. Had the nerve to ask a promoter for more money because he wanted to do a training camp in preparation for “fighting” Matt Riddle, his words not mine, it was a fake wrestling match not a fight. He eventually no showed the event and kept the money. Tried to stiff Akebono in Japan. Akebono repaid his fighting spirit by breaking Low Ki’s ribs. Which sort of makes me wonder what he'll try to pull when Bauer finally asks him to drop the MLW title. Especially since he's leaning hard into that "undefeated for 14 years" stuff. Well his next defence is against Tom Lawlor, a former UFC fighter. If push comes to shove i guess...
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 27, 2018 9:15:57 GMT -5
Which sort of makes me wonder what he'll try to pull when Bauer finally asks him to drop the MLW title. Especially since he's leaning hard into that "undefeated for 14 years" stuff. Well his next defence is against Tom Lawlor, a former UFC fighter. If push comes to shove i guess... Low Ki maybe no fighting spirit this time.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 27, 2018 12:39:27 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan overall, but if we're doing an ego to level of success thing, yeah, I agree with Ki.
If Low-Ki were 6'2" tall, he would have been a force throughout the 2000s, main eventing the major indies and the WWE alike, but the problem for Ki is, that's not the reality we live in. He's closer to 5'2" but still acts like he's some unstoppable legendary tough guy, when in reality he's the guy who'll kick and punch indie guys hard because he knows that usually he won't be given a beating in return because he's an indie name and a draw, whenever he's on a real show and tries that with someone willing to return the favour, it doesn't go well. I still feel that he was screwed over in his WWE run, he could have been Mr. Co-operative and it still would have ended badly because the fans chose him over management's choice, but boy, does he make it hard to feel sorry for him in any way,
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 27, 2018 13:04:44 GMT -5
Which sort of makes me wonder what he'll try to pull when Bauer finally asks him to drop the MLW title. Especially since he's leaning hard into that "undefeated for 14 years" stuff. Well his next defence is against Tom Lawlor, a former UFC fighter. If push comes to shove i guess... And I’m about 90% sure they’re gonna put the belt on Filthy there, so that could be interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 13:14:23 GMT -5
Surprised no one has mentioned the Warrior.
The guy was all about using the wrestling business to build his own brand.
I always got the sense that much of Hogan's problem was insecurity, but Warrior was just a douche, and I like Warrior.
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Post by HisRoyalGreeness on Dec 27, 2018 13:33:41 GMT -5
While the question isn’t “biggest piece of shit in wrestling’s history?” One can’t deny that ego was a huge motivator to Fritz Von Erich.
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