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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 30, 2018 12:11:47 GMT -5
Marcus Alexander Bagwell? Was already on national television prior as the Handsome Stranger in Global.
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Post by nickcave on Dec 30, 2018 23:55:00 GMT -5
Really only Goldberg, The Giant, and Johnny B. Badd could be said to be homegrown from that list if we go by as rigid of a definition as some people are making it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 11:15:11 GMT -5
The problem is they put a cap on a lot of those guys in terms of how far they were willing to let them go, and it’s why most of them deserted the promotion. WCW might have “made” Chris Jericho in the United States, for instance, but adamantly denying him a shot at the top of the card no matter how over he was ensured he was bailing as soon as he could. I've never understood this argument because the "glass ceiling" is everywhere. I get that WCW should have done a better job of intermingling their young talent with their veteran talent rather than having "young guys division" and "old guys division", but there is only so much room at the top of the card, and at least until fairly modern times, the top of the card has always been dominated by a hand full of talent with a more robust midcard. Iffy. It's true they did have a national stage for the first time in WCW, but it lasted less than a year before they moved on to WWF for a much more substantial run. You meant AWA not WCW, right? Personally, when they left the WWF to go to WCW, that worked out so much better for them. They fit in. I wouldn't call AWA a national stage in 1988. It was essentially a really big territory. WWF and JCP/WCW were on cable. The only time I remember seeing AWA in the 80's was when dad went outside and cranked the satellite dish. Wait, so is this for people who were home grown AND became major stars? Or just people who might or might not have been home grown that became a major star while in WCW? Because only about four of the names so far fit BOTH of these. Most of them are by no means home grown. Home grown OR became nationally recognized stars during their time in WCW.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Jan 3, 2019 11:00:53 GMT -5
I was a big fan of The Kwee Wee (Allan Funk). I've often wondered why WCW didnt even try to associate him with the Funk Brothers.
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Post by MC Blowfish on Jan 3, 2019 11:13:49 GMT -5
The problem is they put a cap on a lot of those guys in terms of how far they were willing to let them go, and it’s why most of them deserted the promotion. WCW might have “made” Chris Jericho in the United States, for instance, but adamantly denying him a shot at the top of the card no matter how over he was ensured he was bailing as soon as he could. I've never understood this argument because the "glass ceiling" is everywhere. I get that WCW should have done a better job of intermingling their young talent with their veteran talent rather than having "young guys division" and "old guys division", but there is only so much room at the top of the card, and at least until fairly modern times, the top of the card has always been dominated by a hand full of talent with a more robust midcard. You meant AWA not WCW, right? Personally, when they left the WWF to go to WCW, that worked out so much better for them. They fit in. I wouldn't call AWA a national stage in 1988. It was essentially a really big territory. WWF and JCP/WCW were on cable. The only time I remember seeing AWA in the 80's was when dad went outside and cranked the satellite dish. Wait, so is this for people who were home grown AND became major stars? Or just people who might or might not have been home grown that became a major star while in WCW? Because only about four of the names so far fit BOTH of these. Most of them are by no means home grown. Home grown OR became nationally recognized stars during their time in WCW. AWA was on ESPN in 1988.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 3, 2019 11:23:12 GMT -5
I was a big fan of The Kwee Wee (Allan Funk). I've often wondered why WCW didnt even try to associate him with the Funk Brothers. Jimmy Jack probably soured them on that idea.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jan 3, 2019 13:19:33 GMT -5
I've never understood this argument because the "glass ceiling" is everywhere. I get that WCW should have done a better job of intermingling their young talent with their veteran talent rather than having "young guys division" and "old guys division", but there is only so much room at the top of the card, and at least until fairly modern times, the top of the card has always been dominated by a hand full of talent with a more robust midcard. I wouldn't call AWA a national stage in 1988. It was essentially a really big territory. WWF and JCP/WCW were on cable. The only time I remember seeing AWA in the 80's was when dad went outside and cranked the satellite dish. Home grown OR became nationally recognized stars during their time in WCW. AWA was on ESPN in 1988. But ESPN wasn't on all that many cable packages in 1988, was it?
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Post by MC Blowfish on Jan 3, 2019 13:57:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 17:53:53 GMT -5
That's true, but AWA was in rapid decline by '88 and the ESPN exposure was hardly a boon for them. Besides, ESPN was an upstart network at that time that aired lots of niche sports because they didn't have rights to air MLB, NBA, NFL, WWF, WCW, etc. If AWA had access to 50 million homes in 1985 when they were still hot, it might have been a different story.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Jan 3, 2019 18:02:50 GMT -5
Talents who were either "home grown" or became major stars in America via WCW platform: Sting Goldberg The Giant Lex Luger DDP Harlem Heat Steiner Brothers Vader Chris Benoit Eddie Guerrero Chris Jericho Dean Malenko Cactus Jack Brian Pillman Rey Mysterio Ron Simmons Johnny B. Badd Dustin Rhodes Considering they were only around for 12 years or so, that's not a bad list. Why do some people say that WCW wasn't able to create stars of their own? Actually, Rey, Eddie, Jericho, Malenko and Benoit were pillaged from ECW. By pillaged you mean offered a job with real money instead of paid in Chuckie Cheese tokens?
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efarns
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Post by efarns on Jan 3, 2019 18:22:26 GMT -5
I think the answer as to why people say they couldn't make stars on their own? Because they didn't make everybody a star, and because the company was poorly run in the early 90's.
Austin, Foley, Hall, Nash, HHH, and Austin went to The WWF and became top draws. They had to re-sign The Outsiders for an inflated price. The bridge to The NWO was Hogan, Savage, and Flair.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jan 3, 2019 21:13:01 GMT -5
Iffy. It's true they did have a national stage for the first time in WCW, but it lasted less than a year before they moved on to WWF for a much more substantial run. Made their name in the awa
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Post by MC Blowfish on Jan 4, 2019 11:10:43 GMT -5
That's true, but AWA was in rapid decline by '88 and the ESPN exposure was hardly a boon for them. Besides, ESPN was an upstart network at that time that aired lots of niche sports because they didn't have rights to air MLB, NBA, NFL, WWF, WCW, etc. If AWA had access to 50 million homes in 1985 when they were still hot, it might have been a different story. This is what we call goalpost moving. ESPN covered those sports. With the exception of wrestling. They regularly aired college sports. They might not have had what they can show now, but at the time it was pretty impressive. AWA was still a recognized company at the time. They weren't nearly as popular as they had been, but they were still a strong regional promotion with national exposure.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Jan 5, 2019 18:56:39 GMT -5
Homegrown might not be the word, but maybe popularised in WCW?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 11:54:04 GMT -5
That's true, but AWA was in rapid decline by '88 and the ESPN exposure was hardly a boon for them. Besides, ESPN was an upstart network at that time that aired lots of niche sports because they didn't have rights to air MLB, NBA, NFL, WWF, WCW, etc. If AWA had access to 50 million homes in 1985 when they were still hot, it might have been a different story. This is what we call goalpost moving. ESPN covered those sports. With the exception of wrestling. They regularly aired college sports. They might not have had what they can show now, but at the time it was pretty impressive. AWA was still a recognized company at the time. They weren't nearly as popular as they had been, but they were still a strong regional promotion with national exposure. It's not goalpost moving. I simply forgot that AWA was on ESPN at the time, and I don't think the fact that the Nasty Boys were in AWA at that time means that the Nasty Boys became a nationally recognized tag team in the AWA. For one thing, even if you discount that ESPN was a niche sports network, I'm pretty sure AWA had a late night time slot and was paired with a roller derby show that bombed. Even if you discount that, we're still talking about a promotion that was bleeding fans and resources and accelerating rapidly toward extinction.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 13, 2019 21:14:07 GMT -5
This is what we call goalpost moving. ESPN covered those sports. With the exception of wrestling. They regularly aired college sports. They might not have had what they can show now, but at the time it was pretty impressive. AWA was still a recognized company at the time. They weren't nearly as popular as they had been, but they were still a strong regional promotion with national exposure. It's not goalpost moving. I simply forgot that AWA was on ESPN at the time, and I don't think the fact that the Nasty Boys were in AWA at that time means that the Nasty Boys became a nationally recognized tag team in the AWA. For one thing, even if you discount that ESPN was a niche sports network, I'm pretty sure AWA had a late night time slot and was paired with a roller derby show that bombed. Even if you discount that, we're still talking about a promotion that was bleeding fans and resources and accelerating rapidly toward extinction. I was a wrestling fan in Texas and I knew who the Nasty Boys were by early '88 thanks to coverage of them in the various Apter and non-Apter mags of the time.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 15, 2019 16:30:16 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of the 'WCW created no stars' narrative.
Apart from the fact that Vince nationalised the WWF on the back of a shitload of other people's stars, half the guys WCW 'stole' from the WWF had been in WCW before.
WCW also often made them much bigger stars. Diesel was the worst drawing champion in WWF history, Kevin Nash made the ratings and buyrates explode. Razor Ramon was a very over midcarder, Scott Hall was the hottest thing in the industry.
WWF NEVER MADE ANYBODY THEY JUST TOOK MEAN MARK CALLOUS AND STEVE AUSTIN AND CACTUS JACK
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