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Post by héad.casé on Jan 4, 2019 4:37:18 GMT -5
"Sometimes you have to set the angle within the match, but you gotta give a reason for one guy to be loved and one guy to be hated. At the end of the day, whatever you're doing in the ring, you want it to look real, and genuine, and authentic. And I think that's a huge problem, everybody acts the same way, everybody overplays to the audience, and it's just like, 'OK, what do you do next?'. Everybody's calling they want to backflip off this and into that. Once you do that a couple of times, it's like, 'OK, what do you got now?' Well, now I gotta do two flips into that, then two and a half. When they get used to that, what do you do? Instead of learning the finer nuances of what we do, and that's tell stories. Granted, physical, painful stories, but stories nonetheless." Solow later asked Taker if he thought about quitting the business while he was wrestling. Taker said no and talked about how he always pushed through. He also mentioned how he is at the tail-end of his career now. "You know, at the tail-end now, I really have to put everything into perspective, and what damage I'm doing at this point, to myself, and my life after wrestling, but when I was going full-time, no. Even when the business took a real nose-dive, you're thinking, 'OK, how are we gonna get out of this? What we gonna do? We can work harder.' The one thing I was really good at, and in my mind anyway, if anybody else feels that way is another story, but in my mind, I felt like it was always where I belonged, and what I should be doing. Obviously there were times where money was... but instead of, 'Man, I need to get me a job at the Jiffy Lube and figure out something else later on...', It was, 'What can we do to make this product where we want to see it?'" www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/01/the-undertaker-talks-storytelling-649458/
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by FinalGwen on Jan 4, 2019 6:21:05 GMT -5
"Everybody's calling they want to backflip off this and into that. Once you do that a couple of times, it's like, 'OK, what do you got now?' Well, now I gotta do two flips into that, then two and a half. When they get used to that, what do you do? Instead of learning the finer nuances of what we do, and that's tell stories. Granted, physical, painful stories, but stories nonetheless." People in glass coffins shouldn't throw (tomb)stones.
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Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
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Post by Bad Moon on Jan 4, 2019 6:27:29 GMT -5
"Everybody's calling they want to backflip off this and into that. Once you do that a couple of times, it's like, 'OK, what do you got now?' Well, now I gotta do two flips into that, then two and a half. When they get used to that, what do you do? Instead of learning the finer nuances of what we do, and that's tell stories. Granted, physical, painful stories, but stories nonetheless." People in glass coffins shouldn't throw (tomb)stones. Paraphrasing OSW review: Taker does the top rope dive once a year and people go nuts. Other wrestlers do it at the start of every match and within a minute people forget about it because they've already done 3 more moves.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 4, 2019 6:29:06 GMT -5
"Everybody's calling they want to backflip off this and into that. Once you do that a couple of times, it's like, 'OK, what do you got now?' Well, now I gotta do two flips into that, then two and a half. When they get used to that, what do you do? Instead of learning the finer nuances of what we do, and that's tell stories. Granted, physical, painful stories, but stories nonetheless." People in glass coffins shouldn't throw (tomb)stones. He's not saying not to do highspots, just that you need more in your toolbox than that to fall back on, because people do get desensitized. It's also a spot he did like a handful of times a year even when he was a regular.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 6:30:52 GMT -5
I don't really disagree, but man, it's weird as f*** reading his interviews as Mark Calloway. lol
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Bo Rida
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Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 4, 2019 6:31:33 GMT -5
"Everybody's calling they want to backflip off this and into that. Once you do that a couple of times, it's like, 'OK, what do you got now?' Well, now I gotta do two flips into that, then two and a half. When they get used to that, what do you do? Instead of learning the finer nuances of what we do, and that's tell stories. Granted, physical, painful stories, but stories nonetheless." People in glass coffins shouldn't throw (tomb)stones. He only pulled that occasionaly, mostly at wm so it meant something. Same with his wm matches with hbk, they'd earned the finisher fest over decades with a strong story. It's when they're doing huge flippy spots and kicking out of multiple finishers in a random meaningless raw match that you have the problem he's talking about Although of course it's easier to do that on a reduced schedule, even NXT's takeover schedule makes moments stand out and more memorable stories. Like most of wwe's problems it comes down to struggling to cope with the amount of time they have to fill a month
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 4, 2019 7:27:54 GMT -5
It's always weird to me how everyone always says what's obviously wrong with things (eg. everyone being the same and doing the same things) but they still let them do it. I know you can say "Well that's what Vince wants!" but what is the benefit of everyone blurring into one?
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Jan 4, 2019 7:57:14 GMT -5
Aaron Solow... my arch nemesis!
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Post by RedSmile on Jan 4, 2019 9:58:11 GMT -5
Easy to preach psychology when you're 6'8" and have been one of the most heavily protected characters in company history.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 4, 2019 10:02:15 GMT -5
Easy to preach psychology when you're 6'8" and have been one of the most heavily protected characters in company history. Yeah. The psychology of 90% of Undertaker's matches is "You hit me, I don't sell. I hit you, you sell like death". Pretty easy story to tell. I admit that, Mankind feud aside, I've never been an "Undertaker guy", so I just don't get the amazement for everything the dude does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 10:17:32 GMT -5
I don't really disagree, but man, it's weird as f*** reading his interviews as Mark Calloway. lol Read them in a really slow Texas growl and imagine Paul Bearer shrieking "OH YESSSS!" in the background.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 10:28:24 GMT -5
Easy to preach psychology when you're 6'8" and have been one of the most heavily protected characters in company history. Yeah. The psychology of 90% of Undertaker's matches is "You hit me, I don't sell. I hit you, you sell like death". Pretty easy story to tell. I admit that, Mankind feud aside, I've never been an "Undertaker guy", so I just don't get the amazement for everything the dude does. He's a character, and characters have to stick to a pretty consistent psychology in order to be successful. Saying that he doesn't sell is wrong. He sells like The Undertaker.
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Post by blissified on Jan 4, 2019 10:31:28 GMT -5
Yeah. The psychology of 90% of Undertaker's matches is "You hit me, I don't sell. I hit you, you sell like death". Pretty easy story to tell. I admit that, Mankind feud aside, I've never been an "Undertaker guy", so I just don't get the amazement for everything the dude does. He's a character, and characters have to stick to a pretty consistent psychology in order to be successful. Saying that he doesn't sell is wrong. He sells like The Undertaker. Yeah. The underdog story with guys like Rey,Bryan,Balor is just as easy to tell.
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Post by eJm on Jan 4, 2019 10:47:36 GMT -5
Here’s the problem I have with these talents doing these kinds of interviews;
They’re the sort of people most unaware of what the atmosphere is like now but could do the most to try and change it.
Think about it, we have a bucketload of interviews from former writers and producers who have said everything goes through Vince. As a result, he decides the storylines, his perception of the wrestlers on the roster decides their characters and how they’re used and you have to go to extremes and navigate over snowcones, steaks and wrestling on bear skin rugs to change that.
The most successful eras in wrestling history had less than that. In the 80s, a lot of talent Vince signed wasn’t that different from how they were in the territories (outside of some exceptions) to get those viewers to watch that show and recognised those characters even if they weren’t known to everyone at the time and the 90s, Russo talked to enough of the guys to get their characters and perceptions down flat (which did result in a lot of shit but still). One of those guys was The Undertaker who was able to keep a character and have it work for so long because he got that down pat and recognised what he would and wouldn’t do.
It’s the same with guys like Austin saying people need to stand up for themselves and try different things. Well, people did that. Zack Ryder did that for one. It didn’t work out for them since the perception was that he wanted to be world champion when all he wanted to do was be on damn TV, so that standard was placed upon him by management and fans instead of having him in the midcard in a time when they f***ing really needed a midcard.
But Undertaker could be doing more to help these people on the roster or even say to Vince that it worked for him to be more flexible and lead to people caring about them. But he only comes back for paydays and not that I blame him for doing that but that’s why he won’t be willing to say much but instead sit in his house and do interviews where he says unhelpful stuff like this.
Like...for all the talk about the matches being the same and the characters being the same, there’s literally only one man that can be blamed for that or can actually do something about it and it’s not the talent or agents. It’s Vince.
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Post by realist on Jan 4, 2019 10:50:52 GMT -5
Yeah. The psychology of 90% of Undertaker's matches is "You hit me, I don't sell. I hit you, you sell like death". Pretty easy story to tell. I admit that, Mankind feud aside, I've never been an "Undertaker guy", so I just don't get the amazement for everything the dude does. He's a character, and characters have to stick to a pretty consistent psychology in order to be successful. Saying that he doesn't sell is wrong. He sells like The Undertaker. The Undertaker is one of the most underrated sellers in wrestling. He sells a lot of stories through his body language. I'll give you a great example and one of my favorite pieces of minor storytelling in WWE history. At WrestleMania 30, during the closing, Undertaker hits Brock with the tombstone, covers him, and Brock kicks out. He gets up, does the throat slash pose, and goes for the tombstone again. Brock reverses and breaks the streak. The next year, at WrestleMania 31, he hits the tombstone on Bray Wyatt, covers him, and Bray kicks out. Undertaker gets up, goes to do the throat slash but stops midway. He gets a nervous look on his face. He pops his neck, stretches, and refocusing himself before going back to Bray. You could see the gears turning in his eyes. It is as if he was thinking, "Dammit, Taker, don't get cocky now. This is what cost you the streak last year!! Focus!!" I just love stuff like that.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 4, 2019 12:25:54 GMT -5
I love Taker & there are great points he makes. That said, I’m kinda over “flips” always being used as the example of poor in ring psychological storytelling. Most wrestlers, especially on WWE TV matches are getting a very short amount of time to go out and get all their siganture spots in. Lesnar matches are some of the worst- it’s Germans, strikes and F5’s. Guys like Orton who try to tell stories in matches are considered boring. Cena matches lead to his five moves of doom. I really don’t think it’s just “guys doing flips” or the current crop of wrestlers not getting it.
As we saw in Wrestle Kingdom last night, just let the wrestlers work and do their thing, you get great storytelling and beautiful athleticism. They’re called “talent” for a reason.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jan 4, 2019 12:34:38 GMT -5
People in glass coffins shouldn't throw (tomb)stones. Paraphrasing OSW review: Taker does the top rope dive once a year and people go nuts. Other wrestlers do it at the start of every match and within a minute people forget about it because they've already done 3 more moves. And other wrestling buddies of mine wonder why I can't stand a lot of indy stuff. Hell a lot of wrestling these days has that pace and mindset.
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Post by mrtuesday on Jan 4, 2019 13:23:48 GMT -5
It's always weird to me how everyone always says what's obviously wrong with things (eg. everyone being the same and doing the same things) but they still let them do it. I know you can say "Well that's what Vince wants!" but what is the benefit of everyone blurring into one? So everyone can be replaceable. You lose one guy, you can slot in another without any hassle. It goes back to the current philosophy of "no one is bigger than the brand". If no one is special, then nothing of value will be lost when one is gone.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 4, 2019 13:34:17 GMT -5
It's always weird to me how everyone always says what's obviously wrong with things (eg. everyone being the same and doing the same things) but they still let them do it. I know you can say "Well that's what Vince wants!" but what is the benefit of everyone blurring into one? So everyone can be replaceable. You lose one guy, you can slot in another without any hassle. It goes back to the current philosophy of "no one is bigger than the brand". If no one is special, then nothing of value will be lost when one is gone. Hmm. I guess that makes a twisted kind of sense but stopping people from being "special" seems like a terrible game plan.
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Post by DSR on Jan 4, 2019 13:36:50 GMT -5
So everyone can be replaceable. You lose one guy, you can slot in another without any hassle. It goes back to the current philosophy of "no one is bigger than the brand". If no one is special, then nothing of value will be lost when one is gone. Hmm. I guess that makes a twisted kind of sense but stopping people from being "special" seems like a terrible game plan. Right? Nothing of value is lost when one is gone, but nothing of value is really gained when they are there, either.
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