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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 17:47:49 GMT -5
Even if people don't like the story, an unknown Irish woman beating one of the greatest female MMA fighters of all time and the highly decorated daughter of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time at the same time will not only put more eyes on the match but it'll be a bigger accomplishment for Becky, it'll result in a better match and it'll also really show us that Becky's overcome the 2 most dominating female wrestlers these past 3 years in the company. Yeah, I get the whole "but the Becky/Ronda story-" thing but at the end of the day this is going to help Becky's future more in the long run. And I'm not even going to get into Charlotte's ringwork, popularity and if she's already in the mix with these 2 because if you don't agree with those then you haven't been paying attention. By eyes on the match, assuming you mean casuals and news companies. If that's the case, none of those people give a crap about Charlotte Flair. Beating Rousey is the only thing that matters to the mainstream. She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 17:53:16 GMT -5
By eyes on the match, assuming you mean casuals and news companies. If that's the case, none of those people give a crap about Charlotte Flair. Beating Rousey is the only thing that matters to the mainstream. She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.I see Cena,Rock,Hogan all the time,never once Ric Flair in the main stream.And even if he was, family name can only get you so far.Yeh, Jade Smith got a bunch of roles and media.But he is not good,he doesnt bring much in interest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 17:58:51 GMT -5
She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.I see Cena,Rock,Hogan all the time,never once Ric Flair in the main stream.And even if he was, family name can only get you so far.Yeh, Jade Smith got a bunch of roles and media.But he is not good,he doesnt bring much in interest. The difference between Jaden and Charlotte is that Charlotte is good at what she does. We can call out her family named being used all we want, it doesn’t excuse the fact that she is a damn good talent to have and brings it every time she’s in that ring.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 18:01:46 GMT -5
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.I see Cena,Rock,Hogan all the time,never once Ric Flair in the main stream.And even if he was, family name can only get you so far.Yeh, Jade Smith got a bunch of roles and media.But he is not good,he doesnt bring much in interest. The difference between Jaden and Charlotte is that Charlotte is good at what she does. We can call out her family named being used all we want, it doesn’t excuse the fact that she is a damn good talent to have and brings it every time she’s in that ring. She is good,cant deny her in-ring talent.But she is not that damn good to be shoved in every spot possible. I`m not saying fire her,she deserves to be in big profile feuds.But this is not her time.It has been Charlotte time forever and she did not produce results.Time to give the change and new people the spot to produce results
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 18:06:58 GMT -5
The difference between Jaden and Charlotte is that Charlotte is good at what she does. We can call out her family named being used all we want, it doesn’t excuse the fact that she is a damn good talent to have and brings it every time she’s in that ring. She is good,cant deny her in-ring talent.But she is not that damn good to be shoved in every spot possible. I`m not saying fire her,she deserves to be in big profile feuds.But this is not her time.It has been Charlotte time forever and she did not produce results.Time to give the change and new people the spot to produce results Which is clearly what they’re doing with Becky. Becky has gotten most of the press work, most of the social media presence, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 18:19:26 GMT -5
She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.Bruh, are you serious right now? Do you know how popular Ric Flair is in the mainstream? He's one of the most popular wrestlers in history. Even people who haven't watched wrestling since the 80s still know who Ric Flair is.
All the other stuff is speaking on how the fan's opinion of her booking has been which I'm not talking about, I'm not speaking on how standard fans view Charlotte's wins nor am I speaking on why she's pushed. We know why she's pushed but that doesn't take away from what I'm saying. This is no different than Bryan overcoming Triple H, Orton and Batista at WM30. It was done to fulfill the storylines associated with not only Bryan but also the world title involved and also it put more eyes on the product so when Bryan won he'd be seen in a higher light.
One thing I'm seeing about the "Charlotte shouldn't be here" posts is that people are only speaking on it in regards to what they think the story should be and they keep mentioning her being overpushed. They're not speaking on how that impacts the other stories surrounding it, how big of an accomplishment can be given to Becky, they're not speaking on the future of Becky, they're speaking on that one story. I'm against that though given if you check these past few months Charlotte's been intertwined with Becky and Ronda herself so to have it end at WM makes sense. Yeah Becky's rise is great but that's not the only story they've been telling, they've been telling multiple stories here.
And if people want to pull the "but Becky's story has been going on with Ronda longer" then I'm going to say "no it hasn't" because according to Meltzer the whole reason Charlotte beat Asuka at last year's WM was to lead up to the Ronda match at this year's WM. They were both going to be undefeated so when they clashed it would be a huge moment so yeah, Charlotte/Ronda has been built for a while now but Becky's rise has thrown a wrench into it so now they have to adjust. What they did is instead of wasting the story they were previously telling was that they went ahead and mixed the stories together to not only complete the previous story but to give Becky the biggest win imaginable. At the end of the day this is all to not only benefit Becky but it's to make everything these main women have done these past few years mean something.
But people want to throw that away because Becky's so popular. Even though if you asked Becky she'd say "no don't throw it away because it's a foundation for a long story and it shows how great I am." Even if you asked Becky it puts her over the 2 most dominating women in this division these past 3 years, it brings more light to the match, it puts her in there with her best friend Charlotte, it's a more complex story which works. But people want to throw that away. Because Charlotte is "overpushed." Ok.
Nah, that's not going to cut it in this case.
Yeah, you might not like the story but don't say that it won't benefit all involved, don't say it doesn't make sense, don't say it doesn't have a longer development time, don't say the match won't be better, don't say all that stuff because at the end of the day when it's all said and done it'll benefit Becky more. People need to start looking at why Charlotte's been booked hard and look at how great Becky is right now because honestly speaking, Becky's lost at a WM to Charlotte in the past. Becky's lost every single multi-women match at WM she's been in. For her to actually win one this time? That's story progression.
Last thing I say, stop putting your feelings for Charlotte over all the story telling and over how this will help Becky in the long run. That's the whole "Reigns is in everything" thing all over again. There's a reason why Reigns losing those big matches was great. The guy had to get beaten in order to make those who beat him look better. Becky's toppling someone who's beaten her at a previous WM in a multi-woman match which she's never won at WM and also against Ronda Rousey? That propels her.
That's what's most important.
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Post by Cela on Jan 9, 2019 18:26:48 GMT -5
By eyes on the match, assuming you mean casuals and news companies. If that's the case, none of those people give a crap about Charlotte Flair. Beating Rousey is the only thing that matters to the mainstream. She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
This is a (extremely less iconic) Rock/Hogan level showdown. You don't need to throw Austin in there in the main event of the biggest stage of the year, which it will probably be. Anyone who is casually thinking of buying is not going "Oh, nice, Ronda vs this Becky Lynch person, that's cool. If only there was someone with the same name as someone I used to watch in it to. OH CRAP! Ted Dibiase Jr. is in it! Now it's a must buy!"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 18:34:40 GMT -5
She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
This is a (extremely less iconic) Rock/Hogan level showdown. You don't need to throw Austin in there in the main event of the biggest stage of the year, which it will probably be. Anyone who is casually thinking of buying is not going "Oh, nice, Ronda vs this Becky Lynch person, that's cool. If only there was someone with the same name as someone I used to watch in it to. OH CRAP! Ted Dibiase Jr. is in it! Now it's a must buy!" Becky's the least known out of the 3 to the casual viewer if you go by names. You've got Ronda Rousey, a Flair who's done more in the WWE than Becky has these past 3 years who's the daughter of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and then Becky Lynch who's only started to get major recognition literally less than 4 months ago. People aren't going to say "that's cool" when they see Becky's name if they don't know her, they'll think she'll be steamrolled. You put a Flair in there and that's a different story because the name holds more weight than Becky's name given where it came from. That should be common sense but apparently people are downplaying the Flair name just to make someone else look better.
Like, people don't need to downplay the Flair name just to make Becky seem better just because she's only been this way for less than 4 months. That doesn't help her out in this discussion. And lastly no, this isn't some Rock/Hogan level showdown. Ronda can be one of them but Becky isn't either of them right now. She's heating up but she hasn't hit the level that Rock had years prior so more eyes on the match the better. You're making it seem like Rock is back in 98/99 with that comparison to Becky.
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Post by Georgina's Fancy Water on Jan 9, 2019 18:36:36 GMT -5
This match brought to you by the letter zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 9, 2019 18:53:20 GMT -5
I mean is Charlotte being the Chris Benoit third wheel in this March really the worst thing in the world? Except with her not winning of course, but you know what I mean.
I just can’t be all pissy because WWE wants to add a Flair to the match cause of stuff. They’ve gone way too balls deep on this “The Man blah blah” stuff for them to just go back to having her jerking the curtain at Summerfest.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 9, 2019 19:09:38 GMT -5
Charlotte has been pushed adequately as a top woman Becky has been whooping her ass for months and doing so decisively And despite this, Charlotte is still in the main event. No matter what happens, how badly she is beaten, she'll still be shoehorned into the main events or "Historic Moments" because her dad is the HHH's idol. She is still in the main event of what?
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Post by abjordans on Jan 9, 2019 19:11:57 GMT -5
She's got "Flair" in her name, she's been on more press runs than any woman in this company since the Four Horsewomen came to the main roster and besides that, like I said, she's the most dominating woman these past 3 and a half years. You might not think people give a crap about Charlotte but the Flair name holds weight. There's a reason why they started calling her Charlotte Flair again years ago and why she's who she is, that name and that character is important.
You're really discounting exactly what it means to have Charlotte in this match. Just because you don't like the story and don't like her doesn't mean someone in the mainstream hearing "Flair" won't make them think "oh, like the GOAT Ric?" because they surely will.
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.I see Cena,Rock,Hogan all the time,never once Ric Flair in the main stream.And even if he was, family name can only get you so far.Yeh, Jade Smith got a bunch of roles and media.But he is not good,he doesnt bring much in interest. Women’s wrestling has gotten bigger and more featured than ever before with Charlotte as one of the faces of the division. Ric Flair has hit songs named after him, ESPN aired a documentary on prime time television about him. This post is really not correct.
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Post by BatPunk on Jan 9, 2019 19:16:00 GMT -5
I’m still saying this is going to be Horsewoman vs Horsewoman. Becky messed up Ronda. Charlotte messed up Ronda. Ronda came back and caused both Becky and Charlotte to lose to Asuka. Now Sasha gets a crack. Becky and Charlotte will jump in and cause a DQ. More beat down on Ronda by all 3. Shayna and friends come down and clears house (which is fine. They’re already there for Takeover).
Ronda and friends come down during Asuka/Becky and beats Becky down causing DQ (poor Asuka.) All Horsewoman (including Bayley) come to the ring and massive pull apart brawl. (Poor Asuka being over shadowed again)
All this setting the Wrestlemania match.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:19:25 GMT -5
I’m still saying this is going to be Horsewoman vs Horsewoman. Becky messed up Ronda. Charlotte messed up Ronda. Ronda came back and caused both Becky and Charlotte to lose to Asuka. Now Sasha gets a crack. Becky and Charlotte will jump in and cause a DQ. More beat down on Ronda by all 3. Shayna and friends come down and clears house (which is fine. They’re already there for Takeover) Bayley in those coming weeks joins Becky, Charlotte and Sasha fora 4 on 4 Wrestlemania match. I'd gladly take the triple threat over that personally.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:26:24 GMT -5
I’m still saying this is going to be Horsewoman vs Horsewoman. Becky messed up Ronda. Charlotte messed up Ronda. Ronda came back and caused both Becky and Charlotte to lose to Asuka. Now Sasha gets a crack. Becky and Charlotte will jump in and cause a DQ. More beat down on Ronda by all 3. Shayna and friends come down and clears house (which is fine. They’re already there for Takeover). Ronda and friends come down during Asuka/Becky and beats Becky down causing DQ (poor Asuka.) All Horsewoman (including Bayley) come to the ring and massive pull apart brawl. (Poor Asuka being over shadowed again) All this setting the Wrestlemania match. I think Sasha loses and retreads the mini feud from last year. Sasha resents Bayley but slowly comes around to her with the idea of the new tag titles being introduced. They take out all comers and win them at Mania.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 19:48:45 GMT -5
That first part just makes her look worst. Because she sunk down the SD Division when she was running things. She has had the PR Machine and the booking behind her for 3 whole years and failed to bring any interest. Not until Becky sparked the division again people gave much care about charlotte.Becky basically did in one month what Charlotte failed to in years.Why should Charlotte be awarded a Main Event spot for that? also the main stream barely knows who Ric Flair is.I see Cena,Rock,Hogan all the time,never once Ric Flair in the main stream.And even if he was, family name can only get you so far.Yeh, Jade Smith got a bunch of roles and media.But he is not good,he doesnt bring much in interest. Women’s wrestling has gotten bigger and more featured than ever before with Charlotte as one of the faces of the division. Ric Flair has hit songs named after him, ESPN aired a documentary on prime time television about him. This post is really not correct. The Woman got more featured, but that started before she was the face it was the whole "revolution".The reactions and number went down.(To be fair so did RAW woman division until Ronda breathed some fresh air into it,evne if i'm not a big fan).The interest in the SD woman division just died with Charlotte it was really sad to see at the time.Hell,the fact people didnt want Charlotte in the triple threat is a big tell.Not saying she bunked the whole woman wrestling.Woman are doing fine and is a whole new level from years ago,but its not thanks to Charlotte,she never sold the merch or the shows. Ronda and Becky brough the REALLY big interest and attention,there is a reason all the matches Becky were involved were considered the money matches. Many succefful sport stars have documentaries and hell maybe before my time Ric Flair was mainstream,but lower starts drop off in relevance and stop being main stream.
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Post by Cela on Jan 9, 2019 19:49:16 GMT -5
This is a (extremely less iconic) Rock/Hogan level showdown. You don't need to throw Austin in there in the main event of the biggest stage of the year, which it will probably be. Anyone who is casually thinking of buying is not going "Oh, nice, Ronda vs this Becky Lynch person, that's cool. If only there was someone with the same name as someone I used to watch in it to. OH CRAP! Ted Dibiase Jr. is in it! Now it's a must buy!" Becky's the least known out of the 3 to the casual viewer if you go by names. You've got Ronda Rousey, a Flair who's done more in the WWE than Becky has these past 3 years who's the daughter of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and then Becky Lynch who's only started to get major recognition literally less than 4 months ago. People aren't going to say "that's cool" when they see Becky's name if they don't know her, they'll think she'll be steamrolled. You put a Flair in there and that's a different story because the name holds more weight than Becky's name given where it came from. That should be common sense but apparently people are downplaying the Flair name just to make someone else look better.
Like, people don't need to downplay the Flair name just to make Becky seem better just because she's only been this way for less than 4 months. That doesn't help her out in this discussion. And lastly no, this isn't some Rock/Hogan level showdown. Ronda can be one of them but Becky isn't either of them right now. She's heating up but she hasn't hit the level that Rock had years prior so more eyes on the match the better. You're making it seem like Rock is back in 98/99 with that comparison to Becky. I said extremely less iconic. I meant, that the match sells itself and will make the crowd extremely interested with just the two people. It's what the women's revolution has been leading to, someone the crowd is behind, vs the legitimate mainstream badass. It doesn't need gimmicks or anyone else in it. And by your logic, may as well put Brooke Hogan in there. Then we can have Hogan vs. Flair for the modern age. Along with Ronda and Becky of course. And hell, throw Nattie in there. People liked the Harts. And heck, let's get Mick Foley's kid in there, sure she's not ready. But people love Foley. Putting just Becky vs. Ronda, makes Becky if she wins. Adding more people makes it less of a moment.
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Post by Clint Bobski on Jan 9, 2019 19:54:12 GMT -5
I have no interest in shoehorning Charlotte into another title match. I would much rather see unstoppable heel Ronda v ass kicking babyface Becky at WrestleMania.
Instead we'll get "Just like her father, Charlotte is true WrestleMania Royalty" from Michael Cole as a fatigued crowd watch Charlotte win. No thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:54:48 GMT -5
Becky's the least known out of the 3 to the casual viewer if you go by names. You've got Ronda Rousey, a Flair who's done more in the WWE than Becky has these past 3 years who's the daughter of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and then Becky Lynch who's only started to get major recognition literally less than 4 months ago. People aren't going to say "that's cool" when they see Becky's name if they don't know her, they'll think she'll be steamrolled. You put a Flair in there and that's a different story because the name holds more weight than Becky's name given where it came from. That should be common sense but apparently people are downplaying the Flair name just to make someone else look better.
Like, people don't need to downplay the Flair name just to make Becky seem better just because she's only been this way for less than 4 months. That doesn't help her out in this discussion. And lastly no, this isn't some Rock/Hogan level showdown. Ronda can be one of them but Becky isn't either of them right now. She's heating up but she hasn't hit the level that Rock had years prior so more eyes on the match the better. You're making it seem like Rock is back in 98/99 with that comparison to Becky. I said extremely less iconic. I meant, that the match sells itself and will make the crowd extremely interested with just the two people. It's what the women's revolution has been leading to, someone the crowd is behind, vs the legitimate mainstream badass. It doesn't need gimmicks or anyone else in it. And by your logic, may as well put Brooke Hogan in there. Then we can have Hogan vs. Flair for the modern age. Along with Ronda and Becky of course. And hell, throw Nattie in there. People liked the Harts. And heck, let's get Mick Foley's kid in there, sure she's not ready. But people love Foley. Putting just Becky vs. Ronda, makes Becky if she wins. Adding more people makes it less of a moment. Those people you just listed don’t have amazing matches under their belts. They don’t have the history of being a good promo when the character has an edge to it, they don’t have the prescience that Charlotte has. It isn’t the last name that makes the star, it’s the person in general. See: David Flair, DH Smith, etc. Charlotte is a star and has the presence of one. Those you listed do not.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 9, 2019 19:55:15 GMT -5
Women’s wrestling has gotten bigger and more featured than ever before with Charlotte as one of the faces of the division. Ric Flair has hit songs named after him, ESPN aired a documentary on prime time television about him. This post is really not correct. The Woman got more featured, but that started before she was the face it was the whole "revolution".The reactions and number went down.(To be fair so did RAW woman division until Ronda breathed some fresh air into it,evne if i'm not a big fan).The interest in the SD woman division just died with Charlotte it was really sad to see at the time.Hell,the fact people didnt want Charlotte in the triple threat is a big tell. Many succefful sport stars have documentaries and hell maybe before my time Ric Flair was mainstream,but lower starts drop off in relevance and stop being main stream. Are you saying Charlotte wasn’t essentially the centerpiece of the “women’s revolution” in WWE? When that was all taking shape, Charlotte was the one on top. She is the “woman” who beat the long reigning “diva” for the belt. Ric Flair had a hit song named after him in 2017 that still plays on radio today. Flair is about a big of a mainstream star as a 70 year old former wrestler can possibly be. This is just all way off base as far as I am can see. There is having an opinion, and there is being objectively wrong.
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