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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 19:55:28 GMT -5
I have no interest in shoehorning Charlotte into another title match. I would much rather see unstoppable heel Ronda v ass kicking babyface Becky at WrestleMania. Instead we'll get "Just like her father, Charlotte is true WrestleMania Royalty" from Michael Cole as a fatigued crowd watch Charlotte win. No thanks. Just like we pegged her to win at Evolution? Or Survivor Series? Or TLC?
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Post by Clint Bobski on Jan 9, 2019 20:00:00 GMT -5
I have no interest in shoehorning Charlotte into another title match. I would much rather see unstoppable heel Ronda v ass kicking babyface Becky at WrestleMania. Instead we'll get "Just like her father, Charlotte is true WrestleMania Royalty" from Michael Cole as a fatigued crowd watch Charlotte win. No thanks. Just like we pegged her to win at Evolution? Or Survivor Series? Or TLC? I get your point, but a straight up singles match between Ronda (who is the biggest name in the Women's division), and Becky (who is the most over woman at the moment), seems to me at least to be the most logical and straightforward way of doing this. It doesn't seem to NEED Charlotte, and my worry is that she'll get that win because WWE probably feels there's more publicity to be had by Ric Flair's daughter beating their big star than someone who is familiar to the WWE crowd, but no one in the mainstream media would really care.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:00:00 GMT -5
The Woman got more featured, but that started before she was the face it was the whole "revolution".The reactions and number went down.(To be fair so did RAW woman division until Ronda breathed some fresh air into it,evne if i'm not a big fan).The interest in the SD woman division just died with Charlotte it was really sad to see at the time.Hell,the fact people didnt want Charlotte in the triple threat is a big tell.The number of SD fell hard and while that is mostly because writing I admit. Many succefful sport stars have documentaries and hell maybe before my time Ric Flair was mainstream,but lower starts drop off in relevance and stop being main stream. Are you saying Charlotte wasn’t essentially the centerpiece of the “women’s revolution” in WWE? When that was all taking shape, Charlotte was the one on top. She is the “woman” who beat the long reigning “diva” for the belt. Ric Flair had a hit song named after him in 2017 that still plays on radio today. Flair is about a big of a mainstream star as a 70 year old former wrestler can possibly be. This is just all way off base as far as I am can see. There is having an opinion, and there is being objectively wrong. tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution stagnated with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:04:56 GMT -5
Becky's the least known out of the 3 to the casual viewer if you go by names. You've got Ronda Rousey, a Flair who's done more in the WWE than Becky has these past 3 years who's the daughter of one of the greatest wrestlers of all time and then Becky Lynch who's only started to get major recognition literally less than 4 months ago. People aren't going to say "that's cool" when they see Becky's name if they don't know her, they'll think she'll be steamrolled. You put a Flair in there and that's a different story because the name holds more weight than Becky's name given where it came from. That should be common sense but apparently people are downplaying the Flair name just to make someone else look better.
Like, people don't need to downplay the Flair name just to make Becky seem better just because she's only been this way for less than 4 months. That doesn't help her out in this discussion. And lastly no, this isn't some Rock/Hogan level showdown. Ronda can be one of them but Becky isn't either of them right now. She's heating up but she hasn't hit the level that Rock had years prior so more eyes on the match the better. You're making it seem like Rock is back in 98/99 with that comparison to Becky. I said extremely less iconic. I meant, that the match sells itself and will make the crowd extremely interested with just the two people. It's what the women's revolution has been leading to, someone the crowd is behind, vs the legitimate mainstream badass. It doesn't need gimmicks or anyone else in it. And by your logic, may as well put Brooke Hogan in there. Then we can have Hogan vs. Flair for the modern age. Along with Ronda and Becky of course. And hell, throw Nattie in there. People liked the Harts. And heck, let's get Mick Foley's kid in there, sure she's not ready. But people love Foley. Putting just Becky vs. Ronda, makes Becky if she wins. Adding more people makes it less of a moment.
You're really downplaying what it means to be a Flair and not only that you're downplaying everything Charlotte herself has done since she's made it to the main roster. Straight up.
You're saying the Women's Revolution has lead to this and yet you're forgetting the fact that the Four Horsewomen started that and Charlotte's been the one who's been leading it, Becky hasn't, she's been at the back of the pack until these past 4 months. From a story perspective making Becky beat Charlotte at WM passing the Women's Revolution torch to her makes the most sense so if you want to go with the "it's been leading to this" point look at that given Charlotte's been the one out of those 4 who's been dominating consistently. She's the Cena out of those 4 and when the torch needs to be passed, it needs to be passed the right way. Also look at the fact that they started to build for Charlotte/Ronda at WM when Charlotte beat Asuka's streak at WM last year, it was for a reason. Becky/Ronda only started to be built at Survivor Series.
For all the other women you've named
- Brooke Hogan is a Hogan but she hasn't been one of the most dominating women these past 3 years nor is she someone the company has been building for close to a year to fact Ronda at this year's WM. Charlotte ticks more boxes compared to Brooke.
- Nattie is someone who would fit given she is a Hart. The difference with this is that Charlotte's already intertwined with Ronda and Becky and has been for a while now, Nattie and Becky haven't interacted so it doesn't make any sense. Charlotte's also way more dominating than Nattie is. Charlotte beat Nattie multiple times to the point Bret had to help even.
- Noelle stopped wrestling. If you think Mick Foley is as popular as a Flair or Hogan then wow, I don't know what to say.
You're not looking at everything as a whole here and you're only focusing on Becky getting a 1 on 1 match against Ronda for "her moment." You're not focusing on additional eyes on the match, you're not focusing on how the match will probably be better, you're not focusing on the fact that the story of Charlotte main eventing WM has been going on longer than Becky's rise, you're not focusing on the fact that Becky herself beating Charlotte at WM's main event will put that above anything Charlotte's done at WM which puts Becky at the top of the Four Horsewomen, you're not looking at the fact that Becky beating these 2 at WM is a bigger accomplishment than just beating Ronda there, you're not looking at the fact that all 3 of their stories have been in the mix for a while and out of the 3 Becky's the least developed at WM and lastly you're not looking at the fact that Becky would rather have this happen than not given who Charlotte is and what's she's done to help define the current generation of the women's divison.
All for Becky to have her "moment."
I love Becky but yall are tossing out multiple storylines and accomplishments of others in favor of her when that's not how you do things. You can't say "I want Becky/Ronda because I think it makes the most sense based off these past 4 months" but when others say "but they've been building all this other stuff" you say "f*** that other stuff it doesn't matter." That's just a lack of understanding the story they've been doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:04:57 GMT -5
Are you saying Charlotte wasn’t essentially the centerpiece of the “women’s revolution” in WWE? When that was all taking shape, Charlotte was the one on top. She is the “woman” who beat the long reigning “diva” for the belt. Ric Flair had a hit song named after him in 2017 that still plays on radio today. Flair is about a big of a mainstream star as a 70 year old former wrestler can possibly be. This is just all way off base as far as I am can see. There is having an opinion, and there is being objectively wrong. tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution staged with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. I absolutely can't stand Ric Flair and hate whenever he shows up, but with that being said I gotta disagree here. He's name dropped by rappers all the time from what I can tell and he's always being brought in by pro sports teams to hype things up because of how familiar people are with him and his shtick.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:06:24 GMT -5
Are you saying Charlotte wasn’t essentially the centerpiece of the “women’s revolution” in WWE? When that was all taking shape, Charlotte was the one on top. She is the “woman” who beat the long reigning “diva” for the belt. Ric Flair had a hit song named after him in 2017 that still plays on radio today. Flair is about a big of a mainstream star as a 70 year old former wrestler can possibly be. This is just all way off base as far as I am can see. There is having an opinion, and there is being objectively wrong. tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution stagnated with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. Click on this and tell me how many views that video has. Yall really don't know what you're talking about right now.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:10:37 GMT -5
tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution staged with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. I absolutely can't stand Ric Flair and hate whenever he shows up, but with that being said I gotta disagree here. He's name dropped by rappers all the time from what I can tell and he's always being brought in by pro sports teams to hype things up because of how familiar people are with him and his shtick. I mean that is just my perspective. The video above is a good way of showing that maybe I'm wrong. but it takes more than being featured in succefull rappers videos for me. It makes me say I may be wrong about it but not enough with everything else I ever saw about pro wrestlers being talked in comparison. Even so if I'm wrong in this everything else still stands. Him being main stream does not make Charlotte mainstream or a draw big enough to justify shoving her in
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Post by abjordans on Jan 9, 2019 20:13:15 GMT -5
Are you saying Charlotte wasn’t essentially the centerpiece of the “women’s revolution” in WWE? When that was all taking shape, Charlotte was the one on top. She is the “woman” who beat the long reigning “diva” for the belt. Ric Flair had a hit song named after him in 2017 that still plays on radio today. Flair is about a big of a mainstream star as a 70 year old former wrestler can possibly be. This is just all way off base as far as I am can see. There is having an opinion, and there is being objectively wrong. tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution stagnated with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. Are you saying we went straight from the Divas to the Evolution PPV? And that no growth took place during the time between then? That nothing changed for women prior to Ronda Rousey showing up? That they didn’t become a giant part of WWE, more than ever before, prior to Becky catching fire a few months ago?
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:17:44 GMT -5
tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution stagnated with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. Are you saying we went straight from the Divas to the Evolution PPV? And that no growth took place during the time between then? That nothing changed for women prior to Ronda Rousey showing up? That they didn’t become a giant part of WWE, more than ever before, prior to Becky catching fire a few months ago? They did and then they stopped.That is my point. Since the WM win by Charlotte( not an definitive ,just an estimate) it has slowy been built up. Then Ronda came in and they started to push much harder the whole woman division again.And even then it was mostly office decisions that pushed the woman,like having the Woman Rumble. But the division itself didnt change or gain anything new.They got featured more but not much changed in numbers ,interest ,news and gain.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:19:22 GMT -5
tWell of you wanna be like that you are objectively wrong for me because Charlotte has never seen a great reaction and by all reports she never sold any big numbers or brought views. It is like saying Roman Reifns was the perfect choice because WWE still makes money.And things only started to get bigger news in mainstream with Ronda and Becky, and A PPV where they were the main draws sould well, and Becky events sell out in record time. Fact is the revolution stagnated with Charlotte being pushed all the time. and I laugh at the idea that Rick flair is main stream when not a single person outside of a wrestling forum ever talked about him.and that never appear at any news. Click on this and tell me how many views that video has. Yall really don't know what you're talking about right now. Also just to specify now this ,whiich is not related to the main point(not trying to run from it,just too much people replying it takes some time to go by everyone).But from my point of view which can be wrong. Exposure and connections is not main stream. I never see anyone that is not wrestling fan say "Oh,like Ric Flair?" "I know Ric Flair", i never see news talking about him in any way.Keep in mind I dont have access to american television.So might just be he is not globally main stream but American Main Stream.In which case yeh, I have to debut I have to eat crow , and you guys know more about it than I do.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:20:07 GMT -5
I absolutely can't stand Ric Flair and hate whenever he shows up, but with that being said I gotta disagree here. He's name dropped by rappers all the time from what I can tell and he's always being brought in by pro sports teams to hype things up because of how familiar people are with him and his shtick. I mean that is just my perspective. The video above is a good way of showing that maybe I'm wrong. but it takes more than being featured in succefull rappers videos for me. It makes me say I may be wrong about it but not enough with everything else I ever saw about pro wrestlers being talked in comparison. Even so if I'm wrong in this everything else still stands. Him being main stream does not make Charlotte mainstream or a draw big enough to justify shoving her in I mean if I had my way, Charlotte and Ronda would have their rematch at the Rumble and we'd have Ronda vs. Becky one on one at WM with the triple threat coming at a later time (like SummerSlam or something). Either way I'll be fine as long as Becky gets to be in the main event, because I expect a damn good match no matter what.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:21:28 GMT -5
I mean that is just my perspective. The video above is a good way of showing that maybe I'm wrong. but it takes more than being featured in succefull rappers videos for me. It makes me say I may be wrong about it but not enough with everything else I ever saw about pro wrestlers being talked in comparison. Even so if I'm wrong in this everything else still stands. Him being main stream does not make Charlotte mainstream or a draw big enough to justify shoving her in I mean if I had my way, Charlotte and Ronda would have their rematch at the Rumble and we'd have Ronda vs. Becky one on one at WM with the triple threat coming at a later time (like SummerSlam or something). Either way I'll be fine, because I just want Becky to get the main event and it'll be a damn good match no matter what. I mean yeh it will still be good,I dont deny that. But it could be what people really want,it could be better. It could be a match to please the fans the most.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:24:58 GMT -5
Click on this and tell me how many views that video has. Yall really don't know what you're talking about right now. Also just to specify now this ,whiich is not related to the main point(not trying to run from it).But from my point of view which cna be wrong. Exposure and connections is not main stream.I never see anyone that is not wrestling fan say "Oh,like Ric Flair?" "I know Ric Flair", i never see news talking about him in any way.Keep in mind I dont have access to american television.So might just be he is not globally main stream but American Main Stream.In which case yeh, I have to debut I have to eat crow , and you guys know more about it than I do.
Migos is the most popular active rap group out these days and when Ric Flair was in the music video people understood and respected it. I didn't see anyone say "who is Ric Flair", there's been multiple headlines and articles about him for decades, he's way more popular than you think. Like you said, you don't have access to American television but here, where Flair operates, he's one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. Ric Flair's as popular as some of the highest selling US musicians. He transcended wrestling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 20:28:12 GMT -5
I mean if I had my way, Charlotte and Ronda would have their rematch at the Rumble and we'd have Ronda vs. Becky one on one at WM with the triple threat coming at a later time (like SummerSlam or something). Either way I'll be fine, because I just want Becky to get the main event and it'll be a damn good match no matter what. I mean yeh it will still be good,I dont deny that. But it could be what people really want,it could be better. It could be a match to please the fans the most. I'll put it this way, if you were to tell me a year ago when Becky wasn't doing shit that we're probably going to get her vs. Ronda or her vs. Ronda vs. Charlotte at this year's WrestleMania I wouldn't have bought it. So that's pretty cool at least.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 9, 2019 20:29:12 GMT -5
Also just to specify now this ,whiich is not related to the main point(not trying to run from it).But from my point of view which cna be wrong. Exposure and connections is not main stream.I never see anyone that is not wrestling fan say "Oh,like Ric Flair?" "I know Ric Flair", i never see news talking about him in any way.Keep in mind I dont have access to american television.So might just be he is not globally main stream but American Main Stream.In which case yeh, I have to debut I have to eat crow , and you guys know more about it than I do. Migos is the most popular active rap group out these days and when Ric Flair was in the music video people understood and respected it. I didn't see anyone say "who is Ric Flair", there's been multiple headlines and articles about him for decades, he's way more popular than you think. Like you said, you don't have access to American television but here, where Flair operates, he's one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. Ric Flair's as popular as some of the highest selling US musicians. He transcended wrestling.
Yeh I have to admit i`m wrong in this one.I spoke with a view not broad enough.a.k.a I didnt know enough I will still defend that he is not globally mainstream,but then I think that is also not the point everyone was making.
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Post by Sparkybob on Jan 9, 2019 20:55:22 GMT -5
I never had problems in general with triple threat main events. As long as the 3rd wheel can hold their own I find it usually adds to matches. No one after Asuka won at TLC went yea this would mean more if she just beat Becky in a singles match. Nor when Daniel Bryan beat Orton/Batista or going back further when Jeff Hardy won his first WWE it was in a triple match with Edge/Trips. The crowd was not thinking boy if only this was a singles match so Jeff really gets his moment. They just popped because they were excited for their homie winning the big title.
Flair is not like Big Show who I felt detracted from what Cena/Edge can do in 2009 since I think she can add a lot to the match in terms of match quality. Even if she is there just to eat the pin so Ronda can "claim" she is still undefeated, Flair brings someone else Ronda/Becky can play off during the match.
If Becky wins she is going to get the same pop if it's a threeway or a single match so I can't really be bother either way.
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Post by Cela on Jan 9, 2019 21:01:52 GMT -5
I said extremely less iconic. I meant, that the match sells itself and will make the crowd extremely interested with just the two people. It's what the women's revolution has been leading to, someone the crowd is behind, vs the legitimate mainstream badass. It doesn't need gimmicks or anyone else in it. And by your logic, may as well put Brooke Hogan in there. Then we can have Hogan vs. Flair for the modern age. Along with Ronda and Becky of course. And hell, throw Nattie in there. People liked the Harts. And heck, let's get Mick Foley's kid in there, sure she's not ready. But people love Foley. Putting just Becky vs. Ronda, makes Becky if she wins. Adding more people makes it less of a moment. You're really downplaying what it means to be a Flair and not only that you're downplaying everything Charlotte herself has done since she's made it to the main roster. Straight up.
You're saying the Women's Revolution has lead to this and yet you're forgetting the fact that the Four Horsewomen started that and Charlotte's been the one who's been leading it, Becky hasn't, she's been at the back of the pack until these past 4 months. From a story perspective making Becky beat Charlotte at WM passing the Women's Revolution torch to her makes the most sense so if you want to go with the "it's been leading to this" point look at that given Charlotte's been the one out of those 4 who's been dominating consistently. She's the Cena out of those 4 and when the torch needs to be passed, it needs to be passed the right way. Also look at the fact that they started to build for Charlotte/Ronda at WM when Charlotte beat Asuka's streak at WM last year, it was for a reason. Becky/Ronda only started to be built at Survivor Series.
For all the other women you've named
- Brooke Hogan is a Hogan but she hasn't been one of the most dominating women these past 3 years nor is she someone the company has been building for close to a year to fact Ronda at this year's WM. Charlotte ticks more boxes compared to Brooke.
- Nattie is someone who would fit given she is a Hart. The difference with this is that Charlotte's already intertwined with Ronda and Becky and has been for a while now, Nattie and Becky haven't interacted so it doesn't make any sense. Charlotte's also way more dominating than Nattie is. Charlotte beat Nattie multiple times to the point Bret had to help even.
- Noelle stopped wrestling. If you think Mick Foley is as popular as a Flair or Hogan then wow, I don't know what to say.
You're not looking at everything as a whole here and you're only focusing on Becky getting a 1 on 1 match against Ronda for "her moment." You're not focusing on additional eyes on the match, you're not focusing on how the match will probably be better, you're not focusing on the fact that the story of Charlotte main eventing WM has been going on longer than Becky's rise, you're not focusing on the fact that Becky herself beating Charlotte at WM's main event will put that above anything Charlotte's done at WM which puts Becky at the top of the Four Horsewomen, you're not looking at the fact that Becky beating these 2 at WM is a bigger accomplishment than just beating Ronda there, you're not looking at the fact that all 3 of their stories have been in the mix for a while and out of the 3 Becky's the least developed at WM and lastly you're not looking at the fact that Becky would rather have this happen than not given who Charlotte is and what's she's done to help define the current generation of the women's divison.
All for Becky to have her "moment."
I love Becky but yall are tossing out multiple storylines and accomplishments of others in favor of her when that's not how you do things. You can't say "I want Becky/Ronda because I think it makes the most sense based off these past 4 months" but when others say "but they've been building all this other stuff" you say "f*** that other stuff it doesn't matter." That's just a lack of understanding the story they've been doing.
Consider the Charlotte/Asuka match for a minute. All that build put into Asuka, Charlotte wins. Everyone goes, "Oh. Ok then. That's unexpected. Guess of course Charlotte wins. Gotta keep Charlotte Reigns strong." Charlotte has had a slight resurgence in relevance, but honestly, her involvement brings a sense of meh with whatever she does due to her being the Queen person who had to win 18 championships, because management desperately wants her to be the face of the division. Becky becoming Becky is a lightning in the bottle moment. Similar to Batista/Bryan. Yes, they wanted a certain story, but they have a better one now. It doesn't need Charlotte.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 21:15:14 GMT -5
You're really downplaying what it means to be a Flair and not only that you're downplaying everything Charlotte herself has done since she's made it to the main roster. Straight up.
You're saying the Women's Revolution has lead to this and yet you're forgetting the fact that the Four Horsewomen started that and Charlotte's been the one who's been leading it, Becky hasn't, she's been at the back of the pack until these past 4 months. From a story perspective making Becky beat Charlotte at WM passing the Women's Revolution torch to her makes the most sense so if you want to go with the "it's been leading to this" point look at that given Charlotte's been the one out of those 4 who's been dominating consistently. She's the Cena out of those 4 and when the torch needs to be passed, it needs to be passed the right way. Also look at the fact that they started to build for Charlotte/Ronda at WM when Charlotte beat Asuka's streak at WM last year, it was for a reason. Becky/Ronda only started to be built at Survivor Series.
For all the other women you've named
- Brooke Hogan is a Hogan but she hasn't been one of the most dominating women these past 3 years nor is she someone the company has been building for close to a year to fact Ronda at this year's WM. Charlotte ticks more boxes compared to Brooke.
- Nattie is someone who would fit given she is a Hart. The difference with this is that Charlotte's already intertwined with Ronda and Becky and has been for a while now, Nattie and Becky haven't interacted so it doesn't make any sense. Charlotte's also way more dominating than Nattie is. Charlotte beat Nattie multiple times to the point Bret had to help even.
- Noelle stopped wrestling. If you think Mick Foley is as popular as a Flair or Hogan then wow, I don't know what to say.
You're not looking at everything as a whole here and you're only focusing on Becky getting a 1 on 1 match against Ronda for "her moment." You're not focusing on additional eyes on the match, you're not focusing on how the match will probably be better, you're not focusing on the fact that the story of Charlotte main eventing WM has been going on longer than Becky's rise, you're not focusing on the fact that Becky herself beating Charlotte at WM's main event will put that above anything Charlotte's done at WM which puts Becky at the top of the Four Horsewomen, you're not looking at the fact that Becky beating these 2 at WM is a bigger accomplishment than just beating Ronda there, you're not looking at the fact that all 3 of their stories have been in the mix for a while and out of the 3 Becky's the least developed at WM and lastly you're not looking at the fact that Becky would rather have this happen than not given who Charlotte is and what's she's done to help define the current generation of the women's divison.
All for Becky to have her "moment."
I love Becky but yall are tossing out multiple storylines and accomplishments of others in favor of her when that's not how you do things. You can't say "I want Becky/Ronda because I think it makes the most sense based off these past 4 months" but when others say "but they've been building all this other stuff" you say "f*** that other stuff it doesn't matter." That's just a lack of understanding the story they've been doing.
Consider the Charlotte/Asuka match for a minute. All that build put into Asuka, Charlotte wins. Everyone goes, "Oh. Ok then. That's unexpected. Guess of course Charlotte wins. Gotta keep Charlotte Reigns strong." Charlotte has had a slight resurgence in relevance, but honestly, her involvement brings a sense of meh with whatever she does due to her being the Queen person who had to win 18 championships, because management desperately wants her to be the face of the division. Becky becoming Becky is a lightning in the bottle moment. Similar to Batista/Bryan. Yes, they wanted a certain story, but they have a better one now. It doesn't need Charlotte. She’s gotten her ass handed to her so many times in the last couple months for someone being “Charlotte Reigns.” Roman would always get his comeuppance, but Charlotte hasn’t. Charlotte has had L after L after L. Clean. No interferences, no factions, nothing. She couldn’t even get in any offense when she got beat up from behind. As for the Asuka situation, “Charlotte Reigns” getting the win didn’t do anything to harm her. The Tag Team built up her fan base as it showed a goofy side to her until she rose to the top and is now the champ.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 21:39:57 GMT -5
You're really downplaying what it means to be a Flair and not only that you're downplaying everything Charlotte herself has done since she's made it to the main roster. Straight up.
You're saying the Women's Revolution has lead to this and yet you're forgetting the fact that the Four Horsewomen started that and Charlotte's been the one who's been leading it, Becky hasn't, she's been at the back of the pack until these past 4 months. From a story perspective making Becky beat Charlotte at WM passing the Women's Revolution torch to her makes the most sense so if you want to go with the "it's been leading to this" point look at that given Charlotte's been the one out of those 4 who's been dominating consistently. She's the Cena out of those 4 and when the torch needs to be passed, it needs to be passed the right way. Also look at the fact that they started to build for Charlotte/Ronda at WM when Charlotte beat Asuka's streak at WM last year, it was for a reason. Becky/Ronda only started to be built at Survivor Series.
For all the other women you've named
- Brooke Hogan is a Hogan but she hasn't been one of the most dominating women these past 3 years nor is she someone the company has been building for close to a year to fact Ronda at this year's WM. Charlotte ticks more boxes compared to Brooke.
- Nattie is someone who would fit given she is a Hart. The difference with this is that Charlotte's already intertwined with Ronda and Becky and has been for a while now, Nattie and Becky haven't interacted so it doesn't make any sense. Charlotte's also way more dominating than Nattie is. Charlotte beat Nattie multiple times to the point Bret had to help even.
- Noelle stopped wrestling. If you think Mick Foley is as popular as a Flair or Hogan then wow, I don't know what to say.
You're not looking at everything as a whole here and you're only focusing on Becky getting a 1 on 1 match against Ronda for "her moment." You're not focusing on additional eyes on the match, you're not focusing on how the match will probably be better, you're not focusing on the fact that the story of Charlotte main eventing WM has been going on longer than Becky's rise, you're not focusing on the fact that Becky herself beating Charlotte at WM's main event will put that above anything Charlotte's done at WM which puts Becky at the top of the Four Horsewomen, you're not looking at the fact that Becky beating these 2 at WM is a bigger accomplishment than just beating Ronda there, you're not looking at the fact that all 3 of their stories have been in the mix for a while and out of the 3 Becky's the least developed at WM and lastly you're not looking at the fact that Becky would rather have this happen than not given who Charlotte is and what's she's done to help define the current generation of the women's divison.
All for Becky to have her "moment."
I love Becky but yall are tossing out multiple storylines and accomplishments of others in favor of her when that's not how you do things. You can't say "I want Becky/Ronda because I think it makes the most sense based off these past 4 months" but when others say "but they've been building all this other stuff" you say "f*** that other stuff it doesn't matter." That's just a lack of understanding the story they've been doing.
Consider the Charlotte/Asuka match for a minute. All that build put into Asuka, Charlotte wins. Everyone goes, "Oh. Ok then. That's unexpected. Guess of course Charlotte wins. Gotta keep Charlotte Reigns strong." Charlotte has had a slight resurgence in relevance, but honestly, her involvement brings a sense of meh with whatever she does due to her being the Queen person who had to win 18 championships, because management desperately wants her to be the face of the division. Becky becoming Becky is a lightning in the bottle moment. Similar to Batista/Bryan. Yes, they wanted a certain story, but they have a better one now. It doesn't need Charlotte. The entire reason Charlotte beat Asuka was to set up this Ronda WM match to which no one knew who'd win. Now Becky's rise these past 4 months have caused her to not only be entered in the match but more than likely win it. Regardless if people think Becky's better or not the fact remains that pretty much a year's worth of storyline is being forced to be altered due to Becky's rise which not only affects her but it affects everyone else in the title picture so they have to adjust. Throwing storylines to the side in favor of Becky isn't good storytelling by any means, that's bad storytelling and it makes someone you've built up for years (Charlotte) look worse to make someone look better (Becky) rather than making them both look as great as possible but at the end making Becky the better of the two. You want as many stars as possible and you don't want to replace a star with another one. That's the whole reason Charlotte looked strong a TLC, she was being looked at as lesser so she did so much to bring her up to the level she needed to be again because people kept saying "well Becky this and Becky that." Luckily they fixed it so they have 3 stars now instead of just 2 again.
It's not about how Charlotte is "Charlotte Reigns" nor is it about her being in that prime spot, it's about making a new star here. Common sense and the natural progressive story says the new star needs to overcome the former stars and the best way possible and that's at the biggest event possible WM. That's especially for one star (Charlotte) who wins most of her WM matches. At the end of the day Charlotte from 2015 to 2018 has been the face of the division, she's gained the most championships, she's dominated the most and she's the prime superstar needed to give the rub to someone else. That isn't Ronda, it's Charlotte. Ronda's the new undefeatable star on Raw but at the same time she hasn't been running roughshod over the division like Charlotte. Given how much presence Charlotte holds and given who she is she needs to be beaten at the biggest stage possible because Charlotte's been built up for years compared to Ronda who's only been in the company for 1.
And you bringing up Bryan at WM, when that was a triple threat, is the exact point I'm making here. It wasn't a 1 on 1 match for Bryan because they had more stars involved and Bryan overcoming them all made him a greater more impressive star at the end of it. Michael Cole said Bryan at WM30 was the single most impressive 1 night performance out of anyone in WWE's entire history, Bryan was basically kayfabe God that night all due to who he beat and now Becky has the chance to be the female equivalent of that just by beating these 2 women on 1 night which won't be possible if it's a 1 on 1 match. If they do what you want them to do then she won't be as impressive. It's like I said, you're undermining what it means to beat Charlotte at a WM compared to beating just Ronda. That just goes back to your dislike of Charlotte and all she's accomplished compared to saying "ok, how can we help Becky" because the answer is obvious: Becky beating both of them at WM solidifying her as the best will make her have a greater accomplishment at the end of the day.
You're really downplaying what it means to be a Flair and not only that you're downplaying everything Charlotte herself has done since she's made it to the main roster. Straight up.
You're saying the Women's Revolution has lead to this and yet you're forgetting the fact that the Four Horsewomen started that and Charlotte's been the one who's been leading it, Becky hasn't, she's been at the back of the pack until these past 4 months. From a story perspective making Becky beat Charlotte at WM passing the Women's Revolution torch to her makes the most sense so if you want to go with the "it's been leading to this" point look at that given Charlotte's been the one out of those 4 who's been dominating consistently. She's the Cena out of those 4 and when the torch needs to be passed, it needs to be passed the right way. Also look at the fact that they started to build for Charlotte/Ronda at WM when Charlotte beat Asuka's streak at WM last year, it was for a reason. Becky/Ronda only started to be built at Survivor Series.
For all the other women you've named
- Brooke Hogan is a Hogan but she hasn't been one of the most dominating women these past 3 years nor is she someone the company has been building for close to a year to fact Ronda at this year's WM. Charlotte ticks more boxes compared to Brooke.
- Nattie is someone who would fit given she is a Hart. The difference with this is that Charlotte's already intertwined with Ronda and Becky and has been for a while now, Nattie and Becky haven't interacted so it doesn't make any sense. Charlotte's also way more dominating than Nattie is. Charlotte beat Nattie multiple times to the point Bret had to help even.
- Noelle stopped wrestling. If you think Mick Foley is as popular as a Flair or Hogan then wow, I don't know what to say.
You're not looking at everything as a whole here and you're only focusing on Becky getting a 1 on 1 match against Ronda for "her moment." You're not focusing on additional eyes on the match, you're not focusing on how the match will probably be better, you're not focusing on the fact that the story of Charlotte main eventing WM has been going on longer than Becky's rise, you're not focusing on the fact that Becky herself beating Charlotte at WM's main event will put that above anything Charlotte's done at WM which puts Becky at the top of the Four Horsewomen, you're not looking at the fact that Becky beating these 2 at WM is a bigger accomplishment than just beating Ronda there, you're not looking at the fact that all 3 of their stories have been in the mix for a while and out of the 3 Becky's the least developed at WM and lastly you're not looking at the fact that Becky would rather have this happen than not given who Charlotte is and what's she's done to help define the current generation of the women's divison.
All for Becky to have her "moment."
I love Becky but yall are tossing out multiple storylines and accomplishments of others in favor of her when that's not how you do things. You can't say "I want Becky/Ronda because I think it makes the most sense based off these past 4 months" but when others say "but they've been building all this other stuff" you say "f*** that other stuff it doesn't matter." That's just a lack of understanding the story they've been doing.
Consider the Charlotte/Asuka match for a minute. All that build put into Asuka, Charlotte wins. Everyone goes, "Oh. Ok then. That's unexpected. Guess of course Charlotte wins. Gotta keep Charlotte Reigns strong." Charlotte has had a slight resurgence in relevance, but honestly, her involvement brings a sense of meh with whatever she does due to her being the Queen person who had to win 18 championships, because management desperately wants her to be the face of the division. Becky becoming Becky is a lightning in the bottle moment. Similar to Batista/Bryan. Yes, they wanted a certain story, but they have a better one now. It doesn't need Charlotte. The entire reason Charlotte beat Asuka was to set up this Ronda WM match to which no one knew who'd win. Now Becky's rise these past 4 months have caused her to not only be entered in the match but more than likely win it. Regardless if people think Becky's better or not the fact remains that pretty much a year's worth of storyline is being forced to be altered due to Becky's rise which not only affects her but it affects everyone else in the title picture so they have to adjust. Throwing storylines to the side in favor of Becky isn't good storytelling by any means, that's bad storytelling and it makes someone you've built up for years (Charlotte) look worse to make someone look better (Becky) rather than making them both look as great as possible but at the end making Becky the better of the two. You want as many stars as possible and you don't want to replace a star with another one. That's the whole reason Charlotte looked strong a TLC, she was being looked at as lesser so she did so much to bring her up to the level she needed to be again because people kept saying "well Becky this and Becky that." Luckily they fixed it so they have 3 stars now instead of just 2 again.
It's not about how Charlotte is "Charlotte Reigns" nor is it about her being in that prime spot, it's about making a new star here. Common sense and the natural progressive story says the new star needs to overcome the former stars and the best way possible and that's at the biggest event possible WM. That's especially for one star (Charlotte) who wins most of her WM matches. At the end of the day Charlotte from 2015 to 2018 has been the face of the division, she's gained the most championships, she's dominated the most and she's the prime superstar needed to give the rub to someone else. That isn't Ronda, it's Charlotte. Ronda's the new undefeatable star on Raw but at the same time she hasn't been running roughshod over the division like Charlotte. Given how much presence Charlotte holds and given who she is she needs to be beaten at the biggest stage possible because Charlotte's been built up for years compared to Ronda who's only been in the company for 1.
And you bringing up Bryan at WM, when that was a triple threat, is the exact point I'm making here. It wasn't a 1 on 1 match for Bryan because they had more stars involved and Bryan overcoming them all made him a greater more impressive star at the end of it. Michael Cole said Bryan at WM30 was the single most impressive 1 night performance out of anyone in WWE's entire history, Bryan was basically kayfabe God that night all due to who he beat and now Becky has the chance to be the female equivalent of that just by beating these 2 women on 1 night which won't be possible if it's a 1 on 1 match. If they do what you want them to do then she won't be as impressive. It's like I said, you're undermining what it means to beat Charlotte at a WM compared to beating just Ronda. That just goes back to your dislike of Charlotte and all she's accomplished compared to saying "ok, how can we help Becky" because the answer is obvious: Becky beating both of them at WM solidifying her as the best will make her have a greater accomplishment at the end of the day.
She’s gotten her ass handed to her so many times in the last couple months for someone being “Charlotte Reigns.” Roman would always get his comeuppance, but Charlotte hasn’t. Charlotte has had L after L after L. Clean. No interferences, no factions, nothing. She couldn’t even get in any offense when she got beat up from behind. As for the Asuka situation, “Charlotte Reigns” getting the win didn’t do anything to harm her. The Tag Team built up her fan base as it showed a goofy side to her until she rose to the top and is now the champ. The thing about Charlotte is that even when she's beaten she's always able to rise up from that and be stronger. She's won 3 out of her 4 WM matches, she has that crazy PPV record, she has that crazy title record, it doesn't matter if Becky's beaten her because she came back at TLC and was Becky's equal kayfabe-wise and looked better opinion-wise. She needs to be beaten at WM because that's the biggest loss you can give her especially if Becky goes to another brand. That's how you get done with Charlotte. She's gotta be taken down without having a way to climb back.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jan 9, 2019 21:50:04 GMT -5
I think this debate is in some ways lacking perspective. Sure Charlotte beat Asuka at Mania 34, but if Asuka had won there, she would have lost her streak via being cashed in by Carmella two nights later, which would have ruined both her streak and her first title run. Instead she got a memorable win in a great dual-brand PPV main event, and now a big match at the Rumble.
The discussion about how Charlotte will supposedly take away from Becky/Ronda at Mania if she's there (doesn't matter if she loses, even if she's in the match at all) just reminds me how many fans back in August were desperately hoping for Carmella/Becky II at Summerslam so Becky would go over clean and we'd get another 'Becky Balboa did it!' moment. Then they got furious at Charlotte being added and even angrier at her winning the match, even though it was really to set up Becky's (cool) heel run and set off her meteoric rise. Sure, they could have ran the match smarks wanted at the time, but it would have had results in the long term that did less for Becky and for the division itself.
It also fascinates me how Charlotte has done nothing but put over her opponents for months now, and Becky has been the strongest booked person in the company (we're discussing this a week after she clowned John Cena and had a match where John took more bumps for Zelina Vega than she did, and the night after Becky won yet another big match clean), but rather than being happy for Becky and her success, fans are still paranoid about anything Charlotte does. Speaking of, its worth remembering that Charlotte's been doing her share of mainstream media stuff too, especially for ESPN. She appeared in the ESPN Magazine Body Issue, presented at the ESPYs, was on Get Up! just before Summerslam, etc:
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