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Post by Error on Jan 15, 2019 21:50:44 GMT -5
I think the same thing happened to Shane Strickland. He thought he was free and clear in Nov. but only now has his release. Does any major player want her? I mean, I'm sure MLW and Impact could have been using her this whole time. I only ever see her in Shine. AEW? They are trying to build a divison and having someone with TV experience has to be a plus I'd imagine.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 15, 2019 22:51:54 GMT -5
LU is the shitty gift that keeps on giving.
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 15, 2019 23:13:17 GMT -5
This seems to be a thing with LU It may not be them directly BUT they have to clean that because this seems to happen when talent are ready to go That is not them though like posted above this is the LLC there is nothing someone like EVW who is all for making the talent as happy as possible can do sadly. And Dorian is their key to the AAA talent pool John Fogleman is the guy that can probably make the biggest change and that is somehow idk how but get Dorian out of whatever power he may have in the LLC It’s still “them.”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 23:37:38 GMT -5
That is not them though like posted above this is the LLC there is nothing someone like EVW who is all for making the talent as happy as possible can do sadly. And Dorian is their key to the AAA talent pool John Fogleman is the guy that can probably make the biggest change and that is somehow idk how but get Dorian out of whatever power he may have in the LLC It’s still “them.” The LLC is them...because they own the IP...this is Factorymade and Fogleman with Dorian and his investors "THEM" is not MGM , EVW , EL REY , Mark Burnett , Rodriquez in short the whole TV side So I feel lumping them all together in this situation is unfair as the people in charge of contracts are to blame for this and not the TV people.
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Post by KofiMania on Jan 16, 2019 0:04:03 GMT -5
The LLC is them...because they own the IP...this is Factorymade and Fogleman with Dorian and his investors "THEM" is not MGM , EVW , EL REY , Mark Burnett , Rodriquez in short the whole TV side So I feel lumping them all together in this situation is unfair as the people in charge of contracts are to blame for this and not the TV people. It’s still Lucha Underground as a whole, no matter which entity or person is making the ultimate decision. Reflects poorly on them as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 0:17:23 GMT -5
The LLC is them...because they own the IP...this is Factorymade and Fogleman with Dorian and his investors "THEM" is not MGM , EVW , EL REY , Mark Burnett , Rodriquez in short the whole TV side So I feel lumping them all together in this situation is unfair as the people in charge of contracts are to blame for this and not the TV people. It’s still Lucha Underground as a whole, no matter which entity or person is making the ultimate decision. Reflects poorly on them as a whole. I agree in that it does reflect badly on everyone involved But to me I still feel it is unfair to go this is all LU's fault because there is no singular figure head like a Vince McMahon , saying this is LU's fault is blaming who? the company? just doesn't make sense to me because again there is no singular person in charge....Dorian and the LLC is in charge of the contracts and that to me is where all the blame should be directed but this is just my viewpoint on the whole thing.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jan 16, 2019 1:18:40 GMT -5
I can’t believe how fast and sad the LU story has crashed into the ground.
It was legitimately considered “the future of wrestling” for a hot minute and now it’s a company that barely anyone talks about with a terrible reputation and more than a handful disgruntled ex employees.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 16, 2019 1:37:46 GMT -5
This seems to be a thing with LU It may not be them directly BUT they have to clean that because this seems to happen when talent are ready to go That is not them though like posted above this is the LLC there is nothing someone like EVW who is all for making the talent as happy as possible can do sadly. And Dorian is their key to the AAA talent pool John Fogleman is the guy that can probably make the biggest change and that is somehow idk how but get Dorian out of whatever power he may have in the LLC This still lies on their head
They are the image, no one is going to care about the background trappings of what's going gone except that at the end of the day it's still going to be about LU (not management) holding people up
Sucks for them but this is happened a good amount of times at this point
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Post by Shark on Jan 16, 2019 2:43:31 GMT -5
Does any major player want her? I mean, I'm sure MLW and Impact could have been using her this whole time. I only ever see her in Shine. What's amazing is that Impact had the chance to sign her years ago and they went with Lady Tapa instead.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 16, 2019 9:13:35 GMT -5
Yeah whether it is one person controlling it or not still unfortunate for LU. I remember when the original contract terms were released I said that it would probably hurt Lucha Underground long term. Yeah LU got a bit more relaxed after season 1 but at first the contracts severely crippled where the wrestlers could work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 9:29:52 GMT -5
www.prowrestlingsheet.com/ivelisse-lucha-underground-hostage/Well that sucks all around. There've been so many different, contradictory stories out about how the LU contracts work ever since the show started that it's hard to parse what is or isn't accurate, but it's hard to argue at this point that their terms aren't a really bad fit for the indie wrestling scene. Only one thing is for sure. This is MVP's fault.
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 16, 2019 10:47:04 GMT -5
Does any major player want her? I mean, I'm sure MLW and Impact could have been using her this whole time. I only ever see her in Shine. What's amazing is that Impact had the chance to sign her years ago and they went with Lady Tapa instead. My point is that companies that could have been using her don't seem interested. Impact uses Pentagon, Fenix, Hennigan, Taya, Callihan, and Brian Cage. MLW has used some of these, as well as Shane Strickland when he was under a LU contract. I just don't sense that there's a big demand for booking Ivelisse, unless it's Shine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 11:39:15 GMT -5
It has always been said Ive is a bit of a headcase and alot of people do not like to work with her because she is so stubborn in wanting to do what she wants to do.
She had problems with Tessa in a dark match which Ricochet publicly brought up and Ive responded with something like don't make things public etc because Tessa got hurt
And she is notorious for taking up agents and writers times because she wants things done specifically , Dante Fox did not name names but he eluded having to wait for a female talent spending something like over an hr detailing every single thing about her match and producers have talked about Ive knowing what she wants and fighting too and nail for it.
But I am surprised Impact never brought her in but yet Tessa notorious for her attitude did and that says something when even Impact wont touch you but Tessa is welcomed with open arms.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 16, 2019 11:47:58 GMT -5
Not surprising this weird f***y contract nonsense is going on; a couple years ago Dorian pulled this same shit and tried to block people from bookings claiming to be acting from MGM, only for MGM to put out a statement saying it's not them doing it. The ugly side to the lucha libre scene reaching into the US is that the carny bullshit of the lucha libre scene comes with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 11:51:37 GMT -5
Not surprising this weird f***y contract nonsense is going on; a couple years ago Dorian pulled this same shit and tried to block people from bookings claiming to be acting from MGM, only for MGM to put out a statement saying it's not them doing it. The ugly side to the lucha libre scene reaching into the US is that the carny bullshit of the lucha libre scene comes with it. I am hearing that Dorian is doing this to try and force Ive to work AAA events.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 16, 2019 12:14:34 GMT -5
A bad businessman in charge is the death of a company,no matter how hard they work for the product
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 16, 2019 12:34:40 GMT -5
This is absolutely on LU. You can blame Dorian all you want, but if I run a business and have business partners and one of my partners is constantly f***ing over my employees yet I continue to work with him, how am I not part of the problem? If anything, the people running LU are probably happy they have a scape goat they can blame everything on. They get to be the bad guy and get none of the blame, win win.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 16, 2019 13:07:07 GMT -5
This is absolutely on LU. You can blame Dorian all you want, but if I run a business and have business partners and one of my partners is constantly f***ing over my employees yet I continue to work with him, how am I not part of the problem? If anything, the people running LU are probably happy they have a scape goat they can blame everything on. They get to be the bad guy and get none of the blame, win win. LU really couldn't function without access to AAA guys, and Dorian is apparently connected to some of the investors, too, but I do agree with you that I'm sure they take advantage of having a handy person to pin stuff on. I'm sure much or even most of this is his fault, but it's still a useful tool. As for Ivelisse being difficult, I couldn't say. I mean, I'm sure it can be frustrating to work around, but she'd hardly be the first person who liked to run through ideas, sometimes to the fatigue of people who prefer to play it by ear. Savage is famous for that, DDP as well if I recall, but it can also get results. I wonder if what would be more likely to be an issue for Ivelisse getting a WWE spot, for instance, would be hard feelings from them about her being one of the ones who broke the DeMott story. It'd be bullshit, but whistleblowers get ostracized sometimes.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 16, 2019 13:17:24 GMT -5
This is absolutely on LU. You can blame Dorian all you want, but if I run a business and have business partners and one of my partners is constantly f***ing over my employees yet I continue to work with him, how am I not part of the problem? If anything, the people running LU are probably happy they have a scape goat they can blame everything on. They get to be the bad guy and get none of the blame, win win. LU really couldn't function without access to AAA guys, and Dorian is apparently connected to some of the investors, too, but I do agree with you that I'm sure they take advantage of having a handy person to pin stuff on. I'm sure much or even most of this is his fault, but it's still a useful tool. Oh, I get that they’re completely screwed without AAA. Doesn’t make them any less to blame. Throwing your hands up and saying “Hey man, that’s the guy I’m in bed with, it wasn’t me” is poor excuse. I’d have more respect for them if they said “Dude, she signed a contract. We’re just using our legal right to enforce the terms”
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Jan 16, 2019 13:23:55 GMT -5
This is absolutely on LU. You can blame Dorian all you want, but if I run a business and have business partners and one of my partners is constantly f***ing over my employees yet I continue to work with him, how am I not part of the problem? If anything, the people running LU are probably happy they have a scape goat they can blame everything on. They get to be the bad guy and get none of the blame, win win. I mean, at this point whether the contracts were intentionally designed to be exploitative, or if they're reasonable by TV production standards but carny promoters have figured how to use them to chain up performers under absurd terms, it doesn't really matter anymore. The end result is the same, a mess that's a terrible fit for the indie wrestling scene and handicapping talent who got over via LU from using that exposure elsewhere (and given how sporadically LU runs, no one's going to want to work LU exclusively, they're just locking themselves out of other work with no upside). I hate to rake Lucha Underground over the coals when it's still, from a creative perspective, probably the strongest overall pro wrestling product of the 21st century, but they f***ed up big time here, and from the looks of things they're going to be stuck dealing with the fallout of this f***up for a long time.
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