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Post by BatPunk on Jan 16, 2019 8:20:36 GMT -5
Yes. Because compared to his GOAT peers, Cena actually puts people over. Yes, he’s squashed people as well, but I don’t think he’s that political. I’m thinking that’s more from Vince and the writers. I have some bad news about that... You got past that line you bolder and read the rest of the post, yeah?
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Jan 16, 2019 8:26:28 GMT -5
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 16, 2019 9:16:39 GMT -5
I think so. Look at his longevity and match quality compared to Hogan, Rock, and Austin. Combine that with his media presence and charity work, and it's pretty undeniable.
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Post by Ryushinku on Jan 16, 2019 9:30:30 GMT -5
I don't think anybody, solo, is the GOAT. Not even people like Hogan or Austin. Different metrics, different eras, different process, different audience even. Suffice to say, I'd definitely and easily put him in as one of the greatest. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, sold the t-shirt. Plus with a body of work that stands up better than most of his peers and across a longer period.
And I firmly think his legacy will get even stronger once he finally does call it a day. I get if the booking or the character wasn't liked by everyone, but Cena made a colossal and meaningful mark.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jan 16, 2019 9:51:56 GMT -5
Some of these responses would have you thinking the OP asked about JBL or something. Do I personally think Cena is the GOAT? Nah, but could you make a strong case? Absolutely. These “f*** no” responses like he isn’t even close are just ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 10:55:22 GMT -5
He is in the conversation for top WWE guys who consistently put on the best big matches.
I used to be firmly in the "Cena sucks" camp until I realized that 99% of my favorite matches during his run were Cena matches, and you can't give his opponents all the credit for that.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 16, 2019 11:03:00 GMT -5
Also, some of each guy’s promos were kinda bad during the buildup, but I really enjoyed that first Cena/Rock match at Mania 28. The 29 match felt underwhelming because I think Rock hurts himself at one point.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 16, 2019 11:03:38 GMT -5
He’s on the Mount Rushmore but he’s not the GOAT. Unfortunately the GOAT is that orange goblin. He’s the reason the wwe became a giant. Hogan also drew numbers and mainstream attention that Cena can only dream off.
Austin had a much shorter run than Cena, but he saved the company from bankruptcy and made Vince a billionaire, not to mention that he also made wrestling mainstream around the world and the most popular period that it probably will never be replicated. Again Cena never came close to that.
I’ll place Cena above Bruno though but beneath Hogan and Austin.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 16, 2019 11:04:46 GMT -5
Cena is the Tom Brady of WWE Cena never tampered with evidence ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Jan 16, 2019 11:16:08 GMT -5
I have some bad news about that... You got past that line you bolder and read the rest of the post, yeah? I did. However, I should also add the idea that other GOATs never put people over just silly.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 16, 2019 12:08:28 GMT -5
No.
Hogan is the greatest WWE star of all time. I'd put him above Austin because Hogan is more famous even among non wrestling fans.
Cena's push as the top star alienated a huge amount of the fanbase.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 16, 2019 12:15:06 GMT -5
Cena is the Tom Brady of WWE He needs a new "Giselle" though.
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Post by spagett on Jan 16, 2019 12:15:11 GMT -5
I understand why people would be reluctant to praise Hogan but lets be honest if there is a GOAT it's him.
Particularly in the WWE context, he's the biggest megastar of all time.
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Post by prichardmark on Jan 16, 2019 12:23:41 GMT -5
Nahhhh
he's clearly a level or two below Hogan, Austin, Rock.
I put him on par with Warrior, Savage, Foley and guys like that Good draw, got very over but didn't lead any "boom periods". Maybe he could have if he turned heel back in the mid 2000s and had some better opposition besides guys like Orton, HHH, Edge etc. where it would have ushered in another boom period. But who knows.
He had an all time great career. Just not a GOAT career
I would sandwich him in between Rock, Austin, Hogan and guys like Shawn, Bret, Foley, Andre Warrior etc.
Nothing wrong with being just below the GOATS though. No one is ever going to surpass Hogan, Austin, Rock's drawing abilities. Just like no one will ever be better than Jordan or Gretzky. You may have a few guys that come into the conversation but will ultimately fall short
I think a lot of the issue was the gimmick as a babyface too. That should be a heel gimmick IMO. Its wayyy too corny being a wanna-be Vanilla Ice/Emininem
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 12:28:51 GMT -5
Nah. From a “kayfabe” standpoint; it’s Hogan, Rock and Austin.
From a real life standpoint; it’s HBK, Bret, Angle, etc.
It’s forced as f*** when they keep saying “THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!” whenever he comes out. Like if he was a heel, it wouldn’t be as bad. But Cena the man can’t seperate reality from fiction so that will never happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 13:05:16 GMT -5
Sure. Kayfabe wise, he's got the 16 title reigns and was the top guy and face of the company for 12+ years.
And really, it's smart from the company's perspective to push that narrative because of who John Cena has been outside of the ring. Squeaky clean. No scandals. Great ambassador for the brand. Has done more charity work than just about anyone. Hollywood star. It just makes sense.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 16, 2019 19:34:43 GMT -5
I think he is in genuine contention for the greatest ever. Not a lock. But depending on how you measure it you could justify him topping a lot of categories.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jan 16, 2019 20:05:00 GMT -5
Mount Rushmore status of a few different topics, easily.
Under no metric does he tip-top a list for me. He does however get like an A- (at worst) in literally everything I can think of so I mean, the argument is there no doubt, especially when his longevity comes into play.
He still has a good run or two left in him too. This is still very much an open book.
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Post by krozor on Jan 16, 2019 20:11:59 GMT -5
Kayfabe? He's gotta pass Flair. And he has to work for it, it can't be something he's handed or backs into. The biggest storyline failure for Cena's career as a top guy is that they always tried to sell the "will Cena overcome the odds?" story when the answer was always "Yes, easily." Make it a real story, a real challenge for him to finally face if you're gonna do it. If he turned heel and had a successful heel run there would be a very good case for him. He's done everything else But if we're not talking purely in-universe accomplishments, it's no and this is why. The guy got popular as a cocky heel where he got to show off his mega charisma. And then they put him on top and made him a dull dork for years and years, and never gave him that chance to do what he was best at again. And it killed him and put a cap on what the company could achieve with him as the man. It's only now, that he's functionally retired and doing things out of company control - even if just a little - that he's reminding people that he's a much weirder, more charismatic guy than he was for a decade on top. And naturally, NOW he's becoming the crossover star they so badly wanted him to be but kept him from being all those years. If they'd acquiesced just ONCE while he was on top and let him turn heel, even briefly, to flex those skills again, and remind everyone "oh, right, we did like him" instead of working so, so hard to go against what he was good at and what the crowd wanted, it would have changed everything for him and for the company, which has still yet to grasp that lesson somehow.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jan 16, 2019 20:22:05 GMT -5
I would say certainly not but I think its interesting to think about him. He's certainly sold a lot of merch, won a ton of titles and kept the house show market afloat; I never saw a guy inspire as much dread in hardcore fans as he did, Especially since he was a face. He was okay in the ring but all of his matches were roughly the same. When I think of his matches, three to come to mind: The match against Punk which was fantastic, the I Quit match with Orton which was utter garbage and those series of matches with Umaga which were actually pretty good but he should of lost at least once. The most interesting thing is that to me at least his entire run on top feels like a black hole in wrestling. Its pretty rare to ever hear someone talk about going back to watch old Cena matches. I've never heard anyone mention that they were inspired to become a wrestler because of Cena. Now that his run is basically over it feels like his historical impact is going to be minimal, which is the biggest argument against him being the GOAT. yeah he's not even in my Top 10. So he sold a lot of merch? He steered Vince and the company to the demographic that would make him a multi-millionaire. And drove away a huge chunk of the fanbase by being just a horrible character. Everything about him feels inauthentic. To describe his run like a black hole is perfect, and Vince poisoned his own well with John that by the time Roman came along the fans were like "no f***ing way are we doing this again". But being handed opportunity after opportunity, meaningless title win after meaningless title win, derailing career after career... Same look. Same promos. Every match feels the same. Horrible technique. Heel in face clothing. Nah, not the greatest of all time. Not even close. Just because you get handed the kingdom doesn't mean you earned the right to be called king.
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