|
Post by Jaws the Shark on Jan 17, 2019 16:13:40 GMT -5
Well, look at PWG who will struggle to book long term because their champions are immediately snapped up. Of all the champions since the belt was vacated in 2010 (twelve by my count), nine of them have WWE contracts. Evolve have a deal that allows WWE to scout their talent, presumably in an effort to stop WWE just steamrollering them; of their nine champions in their history, four are now with WWE. It might not have completely run then over yet, but PWG in particular have run into problems from their talent being snatched. And look at independent wrestlers like Donovan Dijak (or whatever his name is this week), who gained some momentum on the independent scene, got signed to a WWE contract, and immediately disappeared from view because so much talent has been stockpiled. The UK and European promotions share a lot of talent, so the WWE talent grab has caused problems for any promotion other than Progress, ICW and WXW, because none of them can book marquee talent now, almost all of which is under a WWE contract. Even Progress, ICW and WXW have limitations on when and how they can use wrestlers, and Progress have stopped running regular smaller shows outside of the major ones like they used to. Now with the Performance Center opening, British indys potentially struggle to create new stars because WWE can now sign promising trainees or prospective wrestlers can forgo the independent circuit altogether.
This just goes back to my initial comment about the wrestlers deciding to sign with the WWE. Sounds to me like these wrestlers would rather make more money in the WWE fully knowing what's going on and what might happen than stay there and keep building their company. That's just what happens with all forms of business. As for Evolve, I mean, that's on them because they just made it easier for WWE to grab talent.
But the problem is that until AEW sprung up it was impossible for anyone else to compete, WWE is a billion dollar multinational and the indys aren't. I don't blame any of the wrestlers for doing it because they have bills to pay, the problem is that WWE are in a position where they can do what they like because independent promoters don't have the means to compete on a financial level. Evolve, Progress, etc. jumped into bed with them because, like I said, it was probably seen as the best way to survive rather than being strongarmed out of business. It doesn't happen in all forms of business, if anyone gave a single shit about wrestling WWE would've been spanked by anti-monopoly regulators decades ago.
|
|
salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,110
|
Post by salz4life on Jan 17, 2019 16:14:03 GMT -5
Imagine if WWE had spent the past fifteen years putting out consistently good programming and managed to not bleed out millions of viewers, thereby not being so insecure that they see a little shred of cheese in someone's hand and stick a shotgun in their face to get it. Hell.... if he (Vince) had just let Cody be who he wanted to be, I wonder how different the scene would be right now? This coming year (and probably the next couple years) are going to be really interesting!
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 17, 2019 16:14:43 GMT -5
There's an immediate benefit for the wrestlers, but if WWE crashes the whole f***ing industry with this behavior then it's going to be one of those things that in historical hindsight are going to be a real problem. Less than ten people on the NXT UK roster are ever going to be on an episode of Raw. This is a horribly unsustainable behavior and for as much as right now it's good, I think only a massive windfall of success for non-WWE companies is going to save the industry from collapsing and a lot of people getting burned in the long run when this spending spree ends. I don't think WWE's going to go into THAT big of a free-fall. However, if it DOES, I don't think anybody called that Cody Rhodes would be the one to cause it. Short term? No. But in 2024 if they keep spending like this and audience numbers keep sliding back, and people decide they're not worth anywhere near this much anymore? It could be a disaster. WWE is emboldened to act because of how much they have going for them right now, but those won't last forever and if they decide to spend their way out of competition with no actual changes to the product, it's going to be ugly.
|
|
TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
Black Lives Matter
Posts: 47,117
Member is Online
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 17, 2019 16:21:10 GMT -5
But Vince needed to see what HE wanted. He beat Ted Turner dammit, there aren't any other billionaires besides that one! The worst thing to happen to Vince McMahon was buying WCW because I swear it's like his whole perception of reality just broke in two. Like the man was never sane in the first place but it convinced him that he won because was the besterest and from there it's all been an utter goddamn misery. He won all by himself and no one else helped. Haven't you watched The Monday Night War? There's an issue with ultra successful people that's not unique to Vince McMahon. You can also see it in Kanye West. It comes up when everyone around you tells you all the time that you're a genius. Or when you make a mistake, everyone goes, "Well, you're a genius, BUT". The problem with guys like Vince and Kanye is that after awhile, they stop hearing the "but". They just hear "You're a genius."
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Jan 17, 2019 16:21:55 GMT -5
Let's start a rumor that AEW wants Scott Steiner to come in and teach people how to cut promos and see what happens. Hangman Page: PAC, YOU SUMBITCH, I'M GONNA KICK YOUR REDNECK ASS BACK TO IRELAND!!
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 17, 2019 16:22:06 GMT -5
Remember when WWE made fun of WCW for paying Lanny Pofo f***tons of money to do nothing It's now 2019 and half of WWE's roster is like a whole ass squad of Lanny Pofos. You never want a whole ass squad of Lanny Poffos. Nothing ever gets done because all anyone wants to do is sit around sucking their own dicks instead of dealing with shit.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,231
|
Post by fw91 on Jan 17, 2019 16:30:56 GMT -5
The Million Dollar Man No Way Jose?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 16:38:10 GMT -5
This just goes back to my initial comment about the wrestlers deciding to sign with the WWE. Sounds to me like these wrestlers would rather make more money in the WWE fully knowing what's going on and what might happen than stay there and keep building their company. That's just what happens with all forms of business. As for Evolve, I mean, that's on them because they just made it easier for WWE to grab talent.
But the problem is that until AEW sprung up it was impossible for anyone else to compete, WWE is a billion dollar multinational and the indys aren't. I don't blame any of the wrestlers for doing it because they have bills to pay, the problem is that WWE are in a position where they can do what they like because independent promoters don't have the means to compete on a financial level. Evolve, Progress, etc. jumped into bed with them because, like I said, it was probably seen as the best way to survive rather than being strongarmed out of business. It doesn't happen in all forms of business, if anyone gave a single shit about wrestling WWE would've been spanked by anti-monopoly regulators decades ago. And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his options. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2019 17:07:34 GMT -5
But the problem is that until AEW sprung up it was impossible for anyone else to compete, WWE is a billion dollar multinational and the indys aren't. I don't blame any of the wrestlers for doing it because they have bills to pay, the problem is that WWE are in a position where they can do what they like because independent promoters don't have the means to compete on a financial level. Evolve, Progress, etc. jumped into bed with them because, like I said, it was probably seen as the best way to survive rather than being strongarmed out of business. It doesn't happen in all forms of business, if anyone gave a single shit about wrestling WWE would've been spanked by anti-monopoly regulators decades ago.
And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his opinions. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
As I said before in a few threads people forget that WWE is still a dream job for a lot of individuals
So if you telling me you going give me a nice little check on top of me living my dream and trying to make it here i'm going be like where do I sign
Why the f*** would WWE be "Big & Bad" if they have the financial stability to offer wrestlers more money and they take it
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 17, 2019 17:12:12 GMT -5
Hey guys, wasn't there some other company that paid hundreds of guys payroll contacts numbering in the millions to sit at home and do nothing. I can't remember their name...
|
|
|
Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 17, 2019 17:15:57 GMT -5
And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his opinions. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
As I said before in a few threads people forget that WWE is still a dream job for a lot of individuals
So if you telling me you going give me a nice little check on top of me living my dream and trying to make it here i'm going be like where do I sign
Why the f*** would WWE be "Big & Bad" if they have the financial stability to offer wrestlers more money and they take it
Because ultimately? It's going to kill any possible alternative that can pay even remotely similarly on the payscale, and when that happens? WWE doesn't have to give f*** ONE about their talent. Competition incentivizes companies to do right by their employees. When WWE squeezes out AEW, then nothing changes. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Monopolies are bad.
|
|
|
Post by Jaws the Shark on Jan 17, 2019 17:18:48 GMT -5
But the problem is that until AEW sprung up it was impossible for anyone else to compete, WWE is a billion dollar multinational and the indys aren't. I don't blame any of the wrestlers for doing it because they have bills to pay, the problem is that WWE are in a position where they can do what they like because independent promoters don't have the means to compete on a financial level. Evolve, Progress, etc. jumped into bed with them because, like I said, it was probably seen as the best way to survive rather than being strongarmed out of business. It doesn't happen in all forms of business, if anyone gave a single shit about wrestling WWE would've been spanked by anti-monopoly regulators decades ago.
And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his opinions. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
The music analogy is an interesting one, and I see it this way: WWE is like if there was one major record label in the industry, and it signed every artist on an independent label with the slightest bit of name recognition not because they're interested in releasing their records, but because they don't want anyone else to. A handful might make it big, but the vast majority won't, and when their contracts are up they'll be dropped, but without the momentum they gained before because they were just left to stagnate, with fewer opportunities to release music because the independent labels have been crippled by the loss of their most popular artists. And signing with major labels wrecks the careers of some artists, just like signing a WWE contract has done with some wrestlers. Like I said, no one sensible would blame the wrestlers for doing what they have to do in order to make a living, but WWE is very cynically trying to make sure that the only way to make one is by signing with them. They're not putting a gun to the heads of wrestlers, but they are beginning to back them into a corner and say that the only way their careers can remain financially viable is to give in to them. Look at some recent WWE signings, Walter and (allegedly) Ilja Dragunov; Walter went on record as saying he didn't want to work a WWE schedule and have someone dictate his bookings, and Dragunov I believe held off because he had a day job he didn't want to give up, so I wonder to what extent did they sign to fulfil a dream, and to what extent did they do it because they felt that with WWE's colonisation of the European scene, they felt they had to if they wanted to continue making money as wrestlers.
|
|
Jayson Tatum Paxley
Dalek
MAMMA MIA! CRUISERLICIOUS!
LOOK AT THIS
Posts: 58,362
Member is Online
|
Post by Jayson Tatum Paxley on Jan 17, 2019 17:20:53 GMT -5
Remember when WWE made fun of WCW for paying Lanny Pofo f***tons of money to do nothing It's now 2019 and half of WWE's roster is like a whole ass squad of Lanny Pofos. You never want a whole ass squad of Lanny Poffos. Nothing ever gets done because all anyone wants to do is sit around sucking their own dicks instead of dealing with shit. That's a rude way to talk about NXT Isle Of Man
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 17, 2019 17:28:00 GMT -5
It’s almost at the point now where, even if WWE were booking every show to absolute perfection, there just isn’t enough time to feature everyone to the level that their talents may warrant. And given that they already do five hours of weekly cable television, four hours of other weekly broadcast television and 2-8 hours of other special event television on increasing less scattered weekends, I don’t think they should add anymore as much as they’d probably need to to feature all their talents to a respectable level. I swear this shit used to be so much easier when there was only one show a week, only 40 people on the roster and half of them were shitty wrestlers so nobody got angry when they weren’t pushed to World Champion level. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png)
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2019 17:30:02 GMT -5
As I said before in a few threads people forget that WWE is still a dream job for a lot of individuals
So if you telling me you going give me a nice little check on top of me living my dream and trying to make it here i'm going be like where do I sign
Why the f*** would WWE be "Big & Bad" if they have the financial stability to offer wrestlers more money and they take it
Because ultimately? It's going to kill any possible alternative that can pay even remotely similarly on the payscale, and when that happens? WWE doesn't have to give f*** ONE about their talent. Competition incentivizes companies to do right by their employees. When WWE squeezes out AEW, then nothing changes. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Monopolies are bad. Who says talent has to sign the contract though? Their are people comfortable down scaling their pay to be more happy so if WWE offers you 100K to start in NXT but you can make 80K on the indies I still see people taking that 80k and running with it because they can still be comfortable
Just because their is more money there doesn't mean they have to chase it but in saying that once again the end all be all is getting a check and feeding their families and chasing an ambition
They know what they are getting into when signing with WWE, this isn't a big secret
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,286
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 17, 2019 17:35:38 GMT -5
Because ultimately? It's going to kill any possible alternative that can pay even remotely similarly on the payscale, and when that happens? WWE doesn't have to give f*** ONE about their talent. Competition incentivizes companies to do right by their employees. When WWE squeezes out AEW, then nothing changes. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Monopolies are bad. Who says talent has to sign the contract though? Their are people comfortable down scaling their pay to be more happy so if WWE offers you 100K to start in NXT but you can make 80K on the indies I still see people taking that 80k and running with it because they can still be comfortable
Just because their is more money there doesn't mean they have to chase it but in saying that once again the end all be all is getting a check and feeding their families and chasing an ambition They know what they are getting into when signing with WWE, this isn't a big secret
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,964
|
Post by Dub H on Jan 17, 2019 17:39:10 GMT -5
Because ultimately? It's going to kill any possible alternative that can pay even remotely similarly on the payscale, and when that happens? WWE doesn't have to give f*** ONE about their talent. Competition incentivizes companies to do right by their employees. When WWE squeezes out AEW, then nothing changes. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Monopolies are bad. Who says talent has to sign the contract though? Their are people comfortable down scaling their pay to be more happy so if WWE offers you 100K to start in NXT but you can make 80K on the indies I still see people taking that 80k and running with it because they can still be comfortable
Just because their is more money there doesn't mean they have to chase it but in saying that once again the end all be all is getting a check and feeding their families and chasing an ambition They know what they are getting into when signing with WWE, this isn't a big secret
Yeh I think many of the luster of "working for WWE" is lost among indie talents because it is no secret how they are used and treated. I mean of course people will still want to be feature in the biggest show,so no wonder they will accept,but I doubt any of then think they will be treated well nowdays.
|
|
|
Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 17, 2019 17:41:10 GMT -5
Who says talent has to sign the contract though? Their are people comfortable down scaling their pay to be more happy so if WWE offers you 100K to start in NXT but you can make 80K on the indies I still see people taking that 80k and running with it because they can still be comfortable
Just because their is more money there doesn't mean they have to chase it but in saying that once again the end all be all is getting a check and feeding their families and chasing an ambition They know what they are getting into when signing with WWE, this isn't a big secret
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. Some people like to act like corporate corruption isn't a thing. See how easy it is to boil down to a strawman? WWE is, flat out, putting financial pressure on it's competition. It's literally the worst side of capitalism. It's bad for the consumer, and long term, no matter how you try to hem and haw and "Well, that check, tho" about it, it's bad for the employees, because it negates all incentive for the company to treat their employees with any respect.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,964
|
Post by Dub H on Jan 17, 2019 17:43:07 GMT -5
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. Some people like to act like corporate corruption isn't a thing. See how easy it is to boil down to a strawman? WWE is, flat out, putting financial pressure on it's competition. It's literally the worst side of capitalism. It's bad for the consumer, and long term, no matter how you try to hem and haw and "Well, that check, tho" about it, it's bad for the employees, because it negates all incentive for the company to treat their employees with any respect. It really is a moment where you have to choose long term and selfishless. AEW is still paying good money and you ensure you and other wrestlers are respected long term. If you sign with WWE you get more money now,but the future is bleak.
|
|
|
Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 17, 2019 17:43:42 GMT -5
Some people like to act like corporate corruption isn't a thing. See how easy it is to boil down to a strawman? WWE is, flat out, putting financial pressure on it's competition. It's literally the worst side of capitalism. It's bad for the consumer, and long term, no matter how you try to hem and haw and "Well, that check, tho" about it, it's bad for the employees, because it negates all incentive for the company to treat their employees with any respect. It really is a moment where you have to choose long term and selfishless. AEW is still paying good money and you ensure you and other wrestlers are respected long term. If you sign with WWE you get more money now,but the future is bleak. Pretty much.
|
|