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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 17:50:15 GMT -5
And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his opinions. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
As I said before in a few threads people forget that WWE is still a dream job for a lot of individuals
So if you telling me you going give me a nice little check on top of me living my dream and trying to make it here i'm going be like where do I sign Why the f*** would WWE be "Big & Bad" if they have the financial stability to offer wrestlers more money and they take it
Yep. People aren't looking at it from that perspective and with all the talk about money, bills are due but there's such a thing as following your passion. These stars could be doing anything else, wrestling isn't the only thing they can do, it's what they want to do and there's always a price in following your passion as long as your passion isn't being a bartender, waitress or working retail. They know damn well what they're in for especially more than us people online. We're not smarter than these guys and yet they still sign with the company so that says something.
The WWE isn't holding them hostage. They're given the choice to sign and honestly the WWE can be a mustache twirling villain and it would still be on the wrestlers because they knew what they were doing. Just don't be a wrestler who wants to work for the WWE. At the end of the day it's a "choice" and it's a "decision" so that's up to the individual. People are making it seem like the WWE stronghold these dudes into these contracts, like they make it seem as though these wrestlers are weak-willed when they're extremely strong given where they came from and what they deal with. They're not babies. They're grown ass adults lol.
And that's the difference here. Nah, I disagree. I'm not going to be putting the blame on the WWE given these wrestlers aren't forced to sign with them. Even if the WWE is the biggest guy on the block, they're not putting a gun to these wrestlers' heads telling them to sign with them. They give them offers, those people then decide if they want to do it or not. At the end of the day they have their own dreams and passions and if they want to follow their craft then it's up to them to make their own decisions fully knowing the good and bad. If it's their decision? I'm not blaming the company given they could have said "nah, thanks" and stay within their current situation or switch professions.
It's like getting mad at a struggling musician who wants to follow his dream. I'm not getting mad at the label for the musician signing that contract fully knowing his opinions. He had all the knowledge to do something else. He's in charge of his own destiny. He made the decision to sign himself over fully knowing how it was.
Yeah, the WWE does do a lot of bad things but this? Nah, these wrestlers shouldn't be signing with them especially if they have more knowledge than us fans do.
The music analogy is an interesting one, and I see it this way: WWE is like if there was one major record label in the industry, and it signed every artist on an independent label with the slightest bit of name recognition not because they're interested in releasing their records, but because they don't want anyone else to. A handful might make it big, but the vast majority won't, and when their contracts are up they'll be dropped, but without the momentum they gained before because they were just left to stagnate, with fewer opportunities to release music because the independent labels have by the loss of their most popular artists. And signing with major labels wrecks the careers of some artists, just like signing a WWE contract done with some wrestlers. Like I said, no one sensible would blame the wrestlers for doing what they have to do in order to make a living, but WWE is very cynically trying to make sure that the only way to make one is by signing with them. They're not putting a gun to the heads of wrestlers, but they are beginning to back them into a corner and say that the only way their careers can remain financially viable is to give in to them. Look at some recent WWE signings, Walter and (allegedly) Ilja Dragunov; Walter went on record as saying he didn't want to work a WWE schedule and have someone dictate his bookings, and Dragunov I believe held off because he had a day job he didn't want to give up, so I wonder to what extent did they sign to fulfil a dream, and to what extent did they do it because they felt that with WWE's colonisation of the European scene, they felt they had to if they wanted to continue making money as wrestlers. But you're basically saying it's on the musicians/wrestlers but for some reason you're not putting the blame on the wrestlers even though they're not forced. It's about the choice and it's about the decision and that's something that can only come from the people who sign the contract otherwise it's illegal. This is common in today's industry and has been for decades. At the end of it though it's the fault of those who sign those deals. Lil Uzi Vert for example. He's in that same predicament and the reason his album isn't dropping is due to Dj Drama, the label and whatnot, he's basically stuck, lost his passion and it's all due to him choosing that path. Yeah, the label sucks but the majority of that anger goes to Uzi because he knew his options. It's the path he wanted to take and as an adult he walked down that path. He didn't need to be this way but it's how it goes. It's for that same reason that people always tell the artists to not sign to a label, because it's the artist who needs to hear it, not the label. I'm not blaming the company at this point, I'm blaming the wrestlers because it's their path at the end of the day. If they want to wrestle, if they want to work hard, if they want to grind fully knowing all they know then it's their faults regardless of how much power the WWE has or not because the truth is if they want to make a living they don't need to be wrestlers. They can gain a trade, work a regular job, they can do something else but regardless, this profession isn't their only one. You mentioning these other wrestlers, if Dragunov had a day job and he didn't want to give it up then he chose to sign that contract. He really didn't have to do it but he went to follow his path.
The WWE can be a mustache twirling villain holding a billion dollar contract or even a 20k year contract in front of these wrestlers and I'll still say it's on the wrestlers because they're the ones who sign the paper. ![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/O9B3i49Xw2I/hqdefault.jpg) It's like that Simpson's episode with Bart and his soul. That was all on Bart.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2019 17:59:43 GMT -5
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. Some people like to act like corporate corruption isn't a thing. See how easy it is to boil down to a strawman? WWE is, flat out, putting financial pressure on it's competition. It's literally the worst side of capitalism. It's bad for the consumer, and long term, no matter how you try to hem and haw and "Well, that check, tho" about it, it's bad for the employees, because it negates all incentive for the company to treat their employees with any respect. Corporate corruption? That’s being dramatic imo
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:04:54 GMT -5
Who says talent has to sign the contract though? Their are people comfortable down scaling their pay to be more happy so if WWE offers you 100K to start in NXT but you can make 80K on the indies I still see people taking that 80k and running with it because they can still be comfortable
Just because their is more money there doesn't mean they have to chase it but in saying that once again the end all be all is getting a check and feeding their families and chasing an ambition They know what they are getting into when signing with WWE, this isn't a big secret
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. This. Apparently these wrestlers are so weak-willed that they gotta sign with the WWE or else their lives are at stake. I had no idea that they can't do anything else besides wrestle. I could have sworn it was their dream and not their end all be all.
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Post by Jayson Tatum Paxley on Jan 17, 2019 18:05:34 GMT -5
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. This. Apparently these wrestlers are so weak-willed that they gotta sign with the WWE or else their lives are at stake. Tyler Breeze weeps, but kn is firm in his beliefs
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:21:25 GMT -5
This. Apparently these wrestlers are so weak-willed that they gotta sign with the WWE or else their lives are at stake. Tyler Breeze weeps, but kn is firm in his beliefs I saw Tyler Breeze snacking on a leftover Subway sandwich last night all thanks to the WWE not paying him enough. He was using a trash bag for a bib and trashcan lid for a plate.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 17, 2019 18:26:09 GMT -5
Some people like to act like free will isn't a thing. Some people like to act like corporate corruption isn't a thing. See how easy it is to boil down to a strawman? WWE is, flat out, putting financial pressure on it's competition. It's literally the worst side of capitalism. It's bad for the consumer, and long term, no matter how you try to hem and haw and "Well, that check, tho" about it, it's bad for the employees, because it negates all incentive for the company to treat their employees with any respect. No, what I'm saying is, if somebody thinks WWE is so damned horrible and evil and soul-destroying, don't sign the contract. If that means they still have to work a normal job and only wrestle part-time, so be it. Otherwise, maybe they didn't quite have the integrity they wanted people to think they did.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 17, 2019 18:27:07 GMT -5
Tyler Breeze weeps, but kn is firm in his beliefs I saw Tyler Breeze snacking on a leftover Subway sandwich last night all thanks to the WWE not paying him enough. He was using a trash bag for a bib and trashcan lid for a plate. But like, Dean really needs that shizz back, yo. So Tyler's gonna get it if he doesn't return them soon.
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Post by Jayson Tatum Paxley on Jan 17, 2019 18:27:23 GMT -5
I dread even more of this depressing era where everything's boring as f*** and nobody's getting used but they all have god tier contracts. Like, good for them, but wrestler's contracts are probably near the very bottom list of things in this world that I even vaguely care about, especially as a viewer when every wrestler I like is getting sucked in to this bland, boring vortex that is WWE in 2019. Honestly, hearing that a dude signed to WWE nowadays is like hearing that they've entered retirement. Like, hope you have a happy life, but I'll f***ing miss you, dude.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:35:00 GMT -5
I saw Tyler Breeze snacking on a leftover Subway sandwich last night all thanks to the WWE not paying him enough. He was using a trash bag for a bib and trashcan lid for a plate. But like, Dean really needs that shizz back, yo. So Tyler's gonna get it if he doesn't return them soon. Tyler's lucky that Ambrose has money now or else he'd put out a hit for him. Now Ambrose eats prime rib and porterhouse.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 17, 2019 18:36:25 GMT -5
I will say this: I love threads like this, because it brings out the on the sly pro-monopoly types, and I like to be aware of where those dudes heads are at.
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Post by Jayson Tatum Paxley on Jan 17, 2019 18:36:54 GMT -5
Tyler Breeze weeps, but kn is firm in his beliefs I saw Tyler Breeze snacking on a leftover Subway sandwich last night all thanks to the WWE not paying him enough. He was using a trash bag for a bib and trashcan lid for a plate. Tyler Breeze could get paid in back massages and that dude would be on twitter like f*** yeah living the dream dudes don't ask me shit
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:37:34 GMT -5
Yeah, my personal outlook on this is that it's awesome for these guys' finances certainly... but end of the day I really don't give a shit about those and as a viewer I'd rather not be in a situation where WWE hoards every good wrestler they can find with no intention of using any of them solely to keep others from having them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:37:52 GMT -5
I saw Tyler Breeze snacking on a leftover Subway sandwich last night all thanks to the WWE not paying him enough. He was using a trash bag for a bib and trashcan lid for a plate. Tyler Breeze could get paid in back massages and that dude would be on twitter like f*** yeah living the dream dudes don't ask me shit Wasn't he one of the superstars who snapped back at fans on Twitter for complaining about his booking? Actually, I think The Revival did it too which is ironic lmao.
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Post by Jayson Tatum Paxley on Jan 17, 2019 18:39:10 GMT -5
Tyler Breeze could get paid in back massages and that dude would be on twitter like f*** yeah living the dream dudes don't ask me shit Wasn't he one of the superstars who snapped back at fans on Twitter for complaining about his booking? Actually, I think The Revival did it too which is ironic lmao. He absolutely was and they proceeded to do like literally nothing with him. Like, good job, dude.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 17, 2019 18:40:28 GMT -5
I don’t understand the “WWE hoards talent” thing. They essentially run 5 wrestling companies - NXT UK, NXT, 205 Live, Raw, and Smackdown. Guys and girls are getting lots of opportunities to show what they got. It’s not like they are signing the. And doing nothing with them. Why are fans offended if a guy gets signed and put in NXT. What is better than watching a Takeover? You should be ecstatic. Now, they are going to pay them even more so to do it. And guys and girls are still going to pass through ROH, NJPW, PWG, so you will get to see them there during their time there. And we will see what happens with AEW.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 17, 2019 18:44:41 GMT -5
I don’t understand the “WWE hoards talent” thing. They essentially run 5 wrestling companies - NXT UK, NXT, 205 Live, Raw, and Smackdown. Guys and girls are getting lots of opportunities to show what they got. It’s not like they are signing the. And doing nothing with them. Why are fans offended if a guy gets signed and put in NXT. What is better than watching a Takeover? You should be ecstatic. Now, they are going to pay them even more so to do it. And guys and girls are still going to pass through ROH, NJPW, PWG, so you will get to see them there during their time there. And we will see what happens with AEW. Donovan Dijak(Or now, Dominik Dijakovic, what a stupid f***ing name) is a great young talent, he's been in NXT for a year. Without looking it up, tell me when his last televised match was? Hell, even looking it up, you're gonna be busy for a minute. THAT is hoarding talent. They have no interest in using the guy, they just wanted him on board so some other company wouln't make something out of him. And he's just the dude I can think of off the top of the dome. As you said, they're essentially running 5 companies, and they STILL don't have the air time to make use of the guys they have logjammed in developmental. And it's because they don't care to. As long as ROH or AEW or whomever doesn't have them, WWE's aces, baby.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2019 18:45:20 GMT -5
I will say this: I love threads like this, because it brings out the on the sly pro-monopoly types, and I like to be aware of where those dudes heads are at. Why judge someone for their personal opinion ? Why does it have to be an angle? Why can’t people simply be happy for someone making as much money as they possibly can ?
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Post by eJm on Jan 17, 2019 18:48:09 GMT -5
So in this discussion, I see both sides and I’ll explain how I feel.
As a trainee wrestler (who is better at selling than grappling right now but getting there!), if WWE offered me a contract right now, I’d sign it. Mostly because the money would be too good to turn down and my life would change dramatically for the better, even if all I was doing was going to NXT shows up and down the East of the country and doing Takeovers. Even with some of the stuff I have against them (Saudi Arabia being a big one), my family and my friends would never forgive me if I didn’t take it.
But also as a trainee wrestler, I want to be able to evolve my style, go to different places and see different audiences and adapt. If everyone’s going towards WWE or only adapting WWE style wrestling, that’s not as interesting as adapting to European or Strong Style or whatever may be. And one of the things I’ve found last year in particular is different styles lead to better matches and cards because it’s a variety show that wrestling should be.
And the business analogies only make sense to an extent. The big difference is competition. If I wasn’t happy at a music producer and could leave my contract, I can leave and go somewhere else. If I didn’t like how Disney were treating me, Universal’s just down the road. Heck, even in retail as a worker, if I wasn’t happy at Tesco and I was offered a position at Lidl or Sainsbury’s or wherever, I could go there.
Until we find out more about AEW and stuff falls in place, WWE’s the only game in town. If you weren’t happy at WWE, where would you go that’s equivalent? ROH isn’t, MLW isn’t, NJPW’s not exactly taking everyone and you’d have to do many indie dates to make up for the amount of dates you’d lose with WWE. If Tesco was the only chain in town, you’re not going to replace that with several shifts at smaller stores before Tesco ran those out of business because they were growing.
It’s the same with entertainment, really, Disney owning more and more is concerning because Disney’ll have no motivation to produce different content to compete because of shareholders and nobody else to compete with. Disney would have all the big chain cinemas only showing their produced movies and the only people that benefit is the cinemas and Disney. The consumer can’t really say “We prefer this” because that might be produced by Disney too.
If AEW takes off, people like it and want to go there, WWE have to adapt to what AEW’s doing or make WWE worth going to outside of money because AEW can match it potentially.
Tl;dr: If WWE offered me a contract, I’d take it. I also hope AEW does well because monopolies suck and make things WAY less interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:48:36 GMT -5
I will say this: I love threads like this, because it brings out the on the sly pro-monopoly types, and I like to be aware of where those dudes heads are at. Or they just have a different opinion and there’s no need to throw shade and insult solely because you disagree with them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 18:49:38 GMT -5
Wasn't he one of the superstars who snapped back at fans on Twitter for complaining about his booking? Actually, I think The Revival did it too which is ironic lmao. He absolutely was and they proceeded to do like literally nothing with him. Like, good job, dude. I remember when Breeze went against Ambrose and people thought that he might have got one lol.
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