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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 16:32:11 GMT -5
This is, without a doubt, the stupidest, silliest, most asinine "controversy" this board has ever seen. Agreed. The bare bones of it is people are making a stink over someone being around to monitor to make sure people act like adults like a manager should They aren’t reinventing the wheel
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 10, 2019 16:34:37 GMT -5
This is, without a doubt, the stupidest, silliest, most asinine "controversy" this board has ever seen. Really? "I like it when work rules are clear and enforcement is above-board, because I think keeping things vague leads to abuse even if people have good intentions" vs. "I like it when things are handled among the team, because it keeps stuff from blowing out of proportion and gives agency to the team members themselves" seems like what this is boiling down to and that's... a perfectly reasonable discussion? I mean, way better than talking about Viktor's hairline, at least.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 16:36:55 GMT -5
A lot of the comments against this just don't make sense to me. I've been reading this thread over and over and I just don't get it. I don't know if it's a culture shock thing, people just being overly paranoid but man, I really wonder why there's a disconnect between us here because unlike other threads related to wrestling this one extends in all areas of working a job. It's something that we're all familiar with.
I think you and I, specifically, have told each other all we can tell each other and it just keeps bouncing off. We're equally perplexed by one another's perspective. This may be a side topic that doesn't fit here, but I actually legit find it really interesting... I think you're right that it is a culture shock difference, and I'm really curious what that difference is. Looking at the same thing, seeing something different.
I think part of it is that you're seeing Henry in a 'team leader' position, which might be the right way to interpret it, but the big difference for me is that "team leader" is an official position, while "sheriff of the locker room" isn't. I also don't think "paranoid" is the right word for distrusting a company like the WWE. But more interesting, one thing you keep saying is that it's good to have someone managing you who has been in your situation, who used to be working alongside you, and who therefore is easy for everyone to connect with and respect. And I just have absolutely no resonance with that. I simply don't care if my manager understands me or I can connect with them. I'm not AGAINST that, but think I might actually prefer someone removed from my job, because they wouldn't have baggage about it that could affect me. The times I've had shitty workplace situations have been the ones where my superiors can get away with anything because everything's unspoken and unofficial and 'handled within the team.' I don't want a boss who understands me as an individual or who I can respect; I want a boss who has a list of specific expectations associated with my position written down somewhere. Give me a bureaucracy any day.
And, I mean, we're both right, right? You can be a shitty manager because your rules are too vague and you don't want anything to be handled above-board, and you can be a shitty manager because you fundamentally don't understand your employees, right? I think it's just a matter of which we think is shittier. I think that's it because judging from what you're saying yeah, that's just a perspective I've never agreed with.
To me this is Henry being in a team leader position and I think that's what he was describing himself given the kind of man he is and what he was saying. One thing that I understood from this interview is that he was mostly speaking in favor towards perception when it comes to wrestlers. Bradshaw, DeMott, I've never heard them speak like Henry did when it comes to empowering others because at the end of the day the crux of Henry's words revolve around wanting wrestlers to be looked at as better. It wasn't about him, it was about guys being in a better position because he's seen how bad it can get when people dislike wrestlers. With the others who have misused power I've never heard any story, read any comment, quote, even the DeMott PC stuff. Even back then it didn't make any guys better it was just about him and abuse. I can't say that with Henry. So off rip it's like "ok, Henry's speaking positively here, lemme see what he's saying" and then I pay more attention to what he says. I definitely think some people are paranoid about this company when it comes to certain things. Might not be this but in regards to this company as a whole, yeah I can see that. I don't know why people think Henry of all people is going to be one of the guys who'll misuse power just because he was around a particular era and especially given the fact he was fighting that mentality.
The second bolded part is what we need to talk about because yeah I think this is the major difference. You wouldn't like that but me? Yeah I'd rather have someone who's been in my situation and knows what goes on so we can make things better and I can adjust accordingly. I've worked so many jobs with people who haven't come from my position, who can't relate to me and what I do and those who have no idea but go by the book and at the end of the day those who relate and can understand always did better to me. Another Target example. I remember one day we had 3 carts of re-shop (random products left in aisles that we gather and put back on the shelves) that we had to sort out and they gave us a small amount of time to distribute it. The team leader understood so when we couldn't finish in time she explained that we were too busy, we didn't have enough time, we could do it in the morning with little work, that type of thing. She's dealt with it before, she gets it and made a plan for how we can take care of it the next day. The exec though when he saw it? Even though we explained it to him he didn't get it because in his perspective the other departments weren't like that and with 2 of us back there that day it just didn't register with him. In our position though there was nothing we could do. We could have asked others to help out but they had re-shop of their own and given that they couldn't help us. That's the type of thing I'm referring to by having a team leader understand the employees more because there's going to be a time where someone doesn't understand something due to the fact that they haven't been in that position. With Henry given he understands the locker room more he'd be able to register what's going on better than someone who doesn't.
Superiors getting away with things is something that I didn't take from Henry's comments because based on everything he said it wasn't malicious nor was it in favor of him personally. Yeah, there are bosses who get away with things because they know the ins and outs, they know the blindspots but at the same time Henry's one of the guys who doesn't seem to fit that type. He's a Kane type rather than a Bradshaw type. I don't think Kane would do it (given he was against that) and the same for Henry. Going back to having a boss who's disconnected from you that goes strictly by the book with rules, at the end of the day there's more than likely going to be a situation where the book can't solve and experience does solve. It goes beyond just work though but it deals with life in general and how we learn as we get older. Eventually you'll hit a point in life where you can't go by the book and experience helps out and that happens a lot in life, it probably happens daily.
I personally think the boss who's disconnected from his employees is a worse boss than one who isn't disconnected. That's based on what I think, what I've dealt with through all of work experience and, again, just life experience. If you know more about someone you'll be able to help them more compared to if you don't.
But at the end of the day I think what we need to draw from this is if we believe Henry's words, his character and his motive. I believe it given everything we know and have heard about him so what he says I believe he'll be positive and it doesn't give any warning signs to me. If you don't then you don't but that's just not what I believe. There's just nothing in anything he's said that had a hint of maliciousness especially given Henry's been one of the "Anti-Dem Boyz" guys. It doesn't make sense to think he'd turn heel on something he was fighting against.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 16:37:15 GMT -5
Where have some of y’all worked though cause some of these answers are just weird Also once again you can argue intent but it’s Mark Henry not JBL, I just don’t see any negatives in this As I mentioned before dudes have to wear a dress code and that doesn’t effect morale so why would someone monitoring and making sure they act like responsible adults do so as well Again, that dress code is laid out in black and white, though. It's not open to interpretation. Mark's opinion of "appropriate behavior" very much is. Putting one person in that position with no apparent oversight, regardless of their reputation.....yeah, that worries me. And when has Mark Henry shown violent tendencies to make people worry of him putting his hands on anyone What are people afraid of he’s going to yell at someone to clean up behind themselves after constant warnings and they cry. These are grown f***ing adults who need guidance and all he’s going to be is the big brother/leader of the locker room. He’s not going to haze rookies, or make them humble and learn RESPECT. He’s saying you’re going to respect your peers, show up to work on time and don’t embarrass the company like a manager would do. I really don’t get why y’all are so over the place with and way overthinking it
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 10, 2019 16:41:52 GMT -5
Again, that dress code is laid out in black and white, though. It's not open to interpretation. Mark's opinion of "appropriate behavior" very much is. Putting one person in that position with no apparent oversight, regardless of their reputation.....yeah, that worries me. And when has Mark Henry shown violent tendencies to make people worry of him putting his hands on anyone What are people afraid of he’s going to yell at someone to clean up behind themselves after constant warnings and they cry. These are grown f***ing adults who need guidance and all he’s going to be is the big brother/leader of the locker room. He’s not going to haze rookies, or make them humble and learn RESPECT. He’s saying you’re going to respect your peers, show up to work on time and don’t embarrass the company like a manager would do. I really don’t get why y’all are so over the place with and way overthinking it When...did I say "putting his hands on" anyone? I'm saying that having that unofficial position, with no oversight, is a bad move. Plain and simple. Put it on paper, enforce it, and I'm fine with it. But him playing "Well, I'm gonna be the sheriff", and the implication that he's got a direct shit-line to Vince, which, knowing Vince's general mercuriousness, could entail god knows what. Yeah, I don't like that. Hold people accountable, but do it the right way. If they won't respect the rules, put the respect in by taking it out of their checks, plain and simple.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 16:47:39 GMT -5
And when has Mark Henry shown violent tendencies to make people worry of him putting his hands on anyone What are people afraid of he’s going to yell at someone to clean up behind themselves after constant warnings and they cry. These are grown f***ing adults who need guidance and all he’s going to be is the big brother/leader of the locker room. He’s not going to haze rookies, or make them humble and learn RESPECT. He’s saying you’re going to respect your peers, show up to work on time and don’t embarrass the company like a manager would do. I really don’t get why y’all are so over the place with and way overthinking it When...did I say "putting his hands on" anyone? I'm saying that having that unofficial position, with no oversight, is a bad move. Plain and simple. Put it on paper, enforce it, and I'm fine with it. But him playing "Well, I'm gonna be the sheriff", and the implication that he's got a direct shit-line to Vince, which, knowing Vince's general mercuriousness, could entail god knows what. Yeah, I don't like that. Hold people accountable, but do it the right way. If they won't respect the rules, put the respect in by taking it out of their checks, plain and simple. They changed the man's schedule to be at all tv tapings and ppvs. I'm pretty sure that's on paper.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 10, 2019 16:48:58 GMT -5
Yeah, huh, it seems like this is just which side you'd rather err on. I'd much rather have a bad person in a good system, and it seems like you'd rather have a good person, whether or not the system's bad. But at the end of the day I think what we need to draw from this is if we believe Henry's words, his character and his motive. I believe it given everything we know and have heard about him so what he says I believe he'll be positive and it doesn't give any warning signs to me. If you don't then you don't but that's just not what I believe. There's just nothing in anything he's said that had a hint of maliciousness especially given Henry's been one of the "Anti-Dem Boyz" guys. It doesn't make sense to think he'd turn heel on something he was fighting against. I think we agree more than disagree here. No matter what, this won't turn into the second coming of Bill Demott. I was iffy about Henry at first, but people explained they were kayfabing up the position for the interview and he was adapting his wrestling character to play to the cameras a little; that isn't how he's actually going to act in the locker room. I'm more against the system. The WWE has long exploited 'locker room culture' to enforce loyalty among the roster in various ways. I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding many of the systems they have in place for dealing with their talent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 16:55:23 GMT -5
I don't know how there's so much conversation around this. We are severely unqualified to know whether this is good, bad, or anything other than what it is. Mark Henry's got a hall monitor job. Alright.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 10, 2019 17:22:56 GMT -5
If Mark Henry had an official role that was accountable and transparent, which had a clear remit to be a sort of roster supervisor when they are on the road, that might work, but they don't need to go back to the prisonyard system they've had before.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 17:23:07 GMT -5
And when has Mark Henry shown violent tendencies to make people worry of him putting his hands on anyone What are people afraid of he’s going to yell at someone to clean up behind themselves after constant warnings and they cry. These are grown f***ing adults who need guidance and all he’s going to be is the big brother/leader of the locker room. He’s not going to haze rookies, or make them humble and learn RESPECT. He’s saying you’re going to respect your peers, show up to work on time and don’t embarrass the company like a manager would do. I really don’t get why y’all are so over the place with and way overthinking it When...did I say "putting his hands on" anyone? I'm saying that having that unofficial position, with no oversight, is a bad move. Plain and simple. Put it on paper, enforce it, and I'm fine with it. But him playing "Well, I'm gonna be the sheriff", and the implication that he's got a direct shit-line to Vince, which, knowing Vince's general mercuriousness, could entail god knows what. Yeah, I don't like that. Hold people accountable, but do it the right way. If they won't respect the rules, put the respect in by taking it out of their checks, plain and simple. Mark has a job as backstage agent. It's on paper
Some people want HR, some people want just a letter, and some of y'all just don't want Henry there at all
Mark is the "warning" the wrestlers kno he's there to enforce the rules and if he doesn't like shit he's reporting it to Vince I see nothing wrong with that. If you're constantly late to the arena you shouldn't need an email saying show up on time or else when i'm pretty sure all that shit in your contract
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 17:28:38 GMT -5
I think you and I, specifically, have told each other all we can tell each other and it just keeps bouncing off. We're equally perplexed by one another's perspective. This may be a side topic that doesn't fit here, but I actually legit find it really interesting... I think you're right that it is a culture shock difference, and I'm really curious what that difference is. Looking at the same thing, seeing something different.
I think part of it is that you're seeing Henry in a 'team leader' position, which might be the right way to interpret it, but the big difference for me is that "team leader" is an official position, while "sheriff of the locker room" isn't. I also don't think "paranoid" is the right word for distrusting a company like the WWE. But more interesting, one thing you keep saying is that it's good to have someone managing you who has been in your situation, who used to be working alongside you, and who therefore is easy for everyone to connect with and respect. And I just have absolutely no resonance with that. I simply don't care if my manager understands me or I can connect with them. I'm not AGAINST that, but think I might actually prefer someone removed from my job, because they wouldn't have baggage about it that could affect me. The times I've had shitty workplace situations have been the ones where my superiors can get away with anything because everything's unspoken and unofficial and 'handled within the team.' I don't want a boss who understands me as an individual or who I can respect; I want a boss who has a list of specific expectations associated with my position written down somewhere. Give me a bureaucracy any day.
And, I mean, we're both right, right? You can be a shitty manager because your rules are too vague and you don't want anything to be handled above-board, and you can be a shitty manager because you fundamentally don't understand your employees, right? I think it's just a matter of which we think is shittier. But at the end of the day I think what we need to draw from this is if we believe Henry's words, his character and his motive. I believe it given everything we know and have heard about him so what he says I believe he'll be positive and it doesn't give any warning signs to me. If you don't then you don't but that's just not what I believe. There's just nothing in anything he's said that had a hint of maliciousness especially given Henry's been one of the "Anti-Dem Boyz" guys. It doesn't make sense to think he'd turn heel on something he was fighting against.
Point blank, I trust Mark as one of the "good guys" in wrestling. He's there to give a positive impact and make sure people get their shit right. He's not bringing back the old ways of the locker room in regards to hazing
Like the most simple way to put this is, if you are working somewhere would you not want someone there who knows the struggle of your job to be your supervisor instead of someone who has no idea what's going on? Mark is going to be the big brother who dishes out tough love. If you come late he's going to pat you on the back like "bro clean that shit up" and if you do it again it's "didn't we have this talk already". The 3rd time he won't even approach you because you know Vince is going to be informed. He's going to give wrestlers lead way because he knows the struggle but he also knows that the stigma can be heavy on their profession.
This is a different way of giving back to the business and put some wisdom as a vet and a locker room leader
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Post by sportatorium on Feb 10, 2019 17:30:12 GMT -5
I really think if they made anyone who was consistently late & trashing locker rooms ride and room with Anderson & Gallows who wouldn’t come out of character as either Stone Cold, Sex Ferguson or Chadd 2 Badd, it would probably straighten everything out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 17:38:36 GMT -5
Yeah, huh, it seems like this is just which side you'd rather err on. I'd much rather have a bad person in a good system, and it seems like you'd rather have a good person, whether or not the system's bad. I think we agree more than disagree here. No matter what, this won't turn into the second coming of Bill Demott. I was iffy about Henry at first, but people explained they were kayfabing up the position for the interview and he was adapting his wrestling character to play to the cameras a little; that isn't how he's actually going to act in the locker room. I'm more against the system. The WWE has long exploited 'locker room culture' to enforce loyalty among the roster in various ways. I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding many of the systems they have in place for dealing with their talent. Mark Henry has been against the negative locker room culture since he joined the company so you saying the WWE has exploited it doesn't make sense when it comes to Henry since he's against it given his idea of what the locker room should be isn't how it was in the bad days. Even today this idea of the "bad locker room" is different than what a "bad locker room" was in the 90s. It's just not the same. You're also getting the "90s locker room culture" mixed up into what type of locker room Mark Henry was speaking on in the interview. The things he was speaking on did not deal with any of that and dealt with basic work etiquette. "Clean up against yourself", "don't insult anyone's spouse", "show up at work on time", that's just basic stuff he was speaking on. If that's what you're worried about when it comes to Henry then you should worry about where you work/worked because that's something that 99% of work places don't allow. Like...what are you even worried about what Mark will do? What do you think will change in the locker room that'll be negative because he has this position? Where do you think this will lead because if you're worried about this, what are you worried about? Explain.
As to what side I'm on, I'm all for the side of good people doing right and given Henry's always shown us that he's a good person then it's common sense to assume he'll continue to do good. Assuming he's not is just paranoia given you're willing to overlook the 20+ years of good he's done for the company for no reason other than the fact that you're worried about something malicious when he hasn't shown us he's that guy nor will he ever be that guy.
Point blank, I trust Mark as one of the "good guys" in wrestling. He's there to give a positive impact and make sure people get their shit right. He's not bringing back the old ways of the locker room in regards to hazing Like the most simple way to put this is, if you are working somewhere would you not want someone there who knows the struggle of your job to be your supervisor instead of someone who has no idea what's going on? Mark is going to be the big brother who dishes out tough love. If you come late he's going to pat you on the back like "bro clean that shit up" and if you do it again it's "didn't we have this talk already". The 3rd time he won't even approach you because you know Vince is going to be informed. He's going to give wrestlers lead way because he knows the struggle but he also knows that the stigma can be heavy on their profession.
This is a different way of giving back to the business and put some wisdom as a vet and a locker room leader
Yeah that's the kind of guy Mark is. He's one of the good ones.
What are people worried about potentially happening from this? How do you think he's going to abuse the rules? What? I don't get what's to be afraid of. It really looks like people are scared of the Invisible Bully.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 17:39:45 GMT -5
I really think if they made anyone who was consistently late & trashing locker rooms ride and room with Anderson & Gallows who wouldn’t come out of character as either Stone Cold, Sex Ferguson or Chadd 2 Badd, it would probably straighten everything out. Gallows: So I hear you like leaving locker rooms dirty
Anderon: WHAT?
Gallows: I said dirty
Anderson: WHAT?
AJ: Please Lord, Freaking kill me now
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fingers on Feb 10, 2019 17:41:57 GMT -5
Incoming headlines about Mark Henry soaping dudes up in the shower, only for the articles to reveal that the dudes in question needed help cause their arms were hurt and they couldn't reach.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 10, 2019 17:44:58 GMT -5
Point blank, I trust Mark as one of the "good guys" in wrestling. He's there to give a positive impact and make sure people get their shit right. He's not bringing back the old ways of the locker room in regards to hazing Like the most simple way to put this is, if you are working somewhere would you not want someone there who knows the struggle of your job to be your supervisor instead of someone who has no idea what's going on? Mark is going to be the big brother who dishes out tough love. If you come late he's going to pat you on the back like "bro clean that shit up" and if you do it again it's "didn't we have this talk already". The 3rd time he won't even approach you because you know Vince is going to be informed. He's going to give wrestlers lead way because he knows the struggle but he also knows that the stigma can be heavy on their profession.
This is a different way of giving back to the business and put some wisdom as a vet and a locker room leader
Yeah that's the kind of guy Mark is. He's one of the good ones.
What are people worried about potentially happening from this? How do you think he's going to abuse the rules? What? I don't get what's to be afraid of. It really looks like people are scared of the Invisible Bully.
Feels like paranoia is driving people to just oppose this for one reason or another. You can't bring in an HR guy or a life counselor or some shit like that because they will be ignored, he's not JBL or Holly
What type of unwritten rules can Mark break? Ohh if it isn't in writing than anything can happen? Yeah, okay that's taking it way to far and should be dialed back 2 notches
It's really simple. He's going to be a locker room leader, help people out and just try be a guiding light. If people still act crazy than they know Vince is not that far behind for a talk
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Post by Hot Noodle Truck on Feb 10, 2019 17:46:14 GMT -5
Mark Henry was put into some of the most dumb f*** offensive angles ever seen in wrestling and never became a bitter or spiteful man. This is the same dude that cried reading poetry after Owen died, he's certainly not Bill f***ing DeMott. He's basically going to be there to make sure they pick up their water bottles and trash, I doubt he's going to make them do squats until they piss blood.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 10, 2019 17:49:32 GMT -5
Mark Henry was put into some of the most dumb f*** offensive angles ever seen in wrestling and never became a bitter or spiteful man. This is the same dude that cried reading poetry after Owen died, he's certainly not Bill f***ing DeMott. He's basically going to be there to make sure they pick up their water bottles and trash, I doubt he's going to make them do squats until they piss blood. This was something I was just going to mention. Dude spent a decade, a DECADE, having to endure dumb shit in the hopes he’d quit after the company signed him to a 10 year deal, with Kane only somehow getting worse angles but only by an inch. If he turns out to be an ass, hey, I’ll be wrong, but if anything, he’s a guy who’d be good for people to keep their morale up when they seem stuck in no man’s land like your No Way Jose’s and the like.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 17:51:15 GMT -5
Incoming headlines about Mark Henry soaping dudes up in the shower, only for the articles to reveal that the dudes in question needed help cause their arms were hurt and they couldn't reach. *insider's walking around backstage and he hears Henry talking loud*Henry - "-AND IF YOU DON'T DO IT RIGHT NOW, THEN IMMA TELL VINCE!!!" Insider - "Wow, Meltzer is gonna get a lot of clicks on this. Henry's really turned heel on this role omg" *guy runs away*Rush - "Really Mark? You mean that?" Henry - "YEAH LIO!! YOU HAD A GREAT MATCH AND IMMA TELL VINCE THAT YOU'RE WORKING DAY IN AND DAY OUT TO IMPROVE I'M PROUD OF YOU, IF YOU WON'T TELL HIM THEN I WILL!!!!!"
Yeah that's the kind of guy Mark is. He's one of the good ones.
What are people worried about potentially happening from this? How do you think he's going to abuse the rules? What? I don't get what's to be afraid of. It really looks like people are scared of the Invisible Bully.
Feels like paranoia is driving people to just oppose this for one reason or another. You can't bring in an HR guy or a life counselor or some shit like that because they will be ignored, he's not JBL or Holly What type of unwritten rules can Mark break? Ohh if it isn't in writing than anything can happen? Yeah, okay that's taking it way to far and should be dialed back 2 notches It's really simple. He's going to be a locker room leader, help people out and just try be a guiding light. If people still act crazy than they know Vince is not that far behind for a talk
I really wonder what people think Henry is gonna do to abuse his power. Like, we haven't seen one example. The things he's going to do are simple things too, it's nothing this wild. I don't even get it. This is great for the wrestlers.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 10, 2019 17:52:23 GMT -5
Yeah that's the kind of guy Mark is. He's one of the good ones.
What are people worried about potentially happening from this? How do you think he's going to abuse the rules? What? I don't get what's to be afraid of. It really looks like people are scared of the Invisible Bully.
Feels like paranoia is driving people to just oppose this for one reason or another. You can't bring in an HR guy or a life counselor or some shit like that because they will be ignored, he's not JBL or Holly
What type of unwritten rules can Mark break? Ohh if it isn't in writing than anything can happen? Yeah, okay that's taking it way to far and should be dialed back 2 notches
It's really simple. He's going to be a locker room leader, help people out and just try be a guiding light. If people still act crazy than they know Vince is not that far behind for a talk
You absolutely can bring in an HR guy. Give them the power theyt should have, to fine infractions, written out and in no way interpretable as anything other than what they are, that make the company look bad, and they for sure won't be ignored for long.
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