paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
Posts: 3,678
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Post by paywindah on Feb 12, 2019 7:44:24 GMT -5
So many rubes getting worked hard on this.
Charlotte is awesome and adding her gives this match the heel it desperately needed.
I hope Charlotte wins and Becky chases her until SummerSlam.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 12, 2019 7:47:23 GMT -5
I still think she's getting taken out of the match. They're doing this to stoke the flames and it's working. They know most of the audience doesn't want her included.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,630
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Post by markymark on Feb 12, 2019 7:48:02 GMT -5
I expect this triple threat match being as awesome as HHH vs Benoit vs HBK, im serious.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 7:48:40 GMT -5
To me it's more annoying that they had Becky apologize to the Authority than it was to add Charlotte to the match. I actually liked the way they did that, basically having her admit with her previous actions she didn't really have a leg to stand on (which she didn't) and backing off there while at the same time making it abundantly clear that she was still wary of them and would get swift revenge if they still wound up screwing with her. Which they did, so so long as from here she sets out to make Vince's life total hell like she said, I'm fine with the way they did it. In a bubble it's fine and she will surely get the last laugh, but when they go this route with pretty much everyone it's really hard to forgive. I thought that was a really neutering moment for her. Fans were screaming for her not to do it, then she does it. You could have had her refuse, then have Ronda come out and say she wants to right Becky anyways, like she would be a date worse than suspension, then have Vince do his deal. Not the end of the world but it's a really lame detail in the long run. One of WWE's biggest hindrances is that they make their talent look like defeated high school kids all the time and if they can't overcome that even for Becky that's rough.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,423
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 7:49:35 GMT -5
I still think she's getting taken out of the match. They're doing this to stoke the flames and it's working. They know most of the audience doesn't want her included. It is still dumb and turns away people because of no wanting Charlotte even close.They are did the stoke the flames with her losing at the RR and then beating Charlotte at the end. Plus I think you are giving then too much credit setting up for disappointment
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,423
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 7:51:06 GMT -5
I actually liked the way they did that, basically having her admit with her previous actions she didn't really have a leg to stand on (which she didn't) and backing off there while at the same time making it abundantly clear that she was still wary of them and would get swift revenge if they still wound up screwing with her. Which they did, so so long as from here she sets out to make Vince's life total hell like she said, I'm fine with the way they did it. In a bubble it's fine and she will surely get the last laugh, but when they go this route with pretty much everyone it's really hard to forgive. I thought that was a really neutering moment for her. Fans were screaming for her not to do it, then she does it. You could have had her refuse, then have Ronda come out and say she wants to right Becky anyways, like she would be a date worse than suspension, then have Vince do his deal. Not the end of the world but it's a really lame detail in the long run. One of WWE's biggest hindrances is that they make their talent look like defeated high school kids all the time and if they can't overcome that even for Becky that's rough. Pretty much,there is no way to justify her apologising. The crowd didnt want it,no one besides Steph and Triple H gained anything from it. And sure,it is ONE mistake.But many of the recent over acts died because WWE keeps doing MANY mistakes that keep piling up.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,565
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 12, 2019 8:36:14 GMT -5
And stuff like this is why I haven't bothered to get behind Becky's rise.
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Post by Prince Petty on Feb 12, 2019 8:42:34 GMT -5
In a bubble it's fine and she will surely get the last laugh, but when they go this route with pretty much everyone it's really hard to forgive. I thought that was a really neutering moment for her. Fans were screaming for her not to do it, then she does it. You could have had her refuse, then have Ronda come out and say she wants to right Becky anyways, like she would be a date worse than suspension, then have Vince do his deal. Not the end of the world but it's a really lame detail in the long run. One of WWE's biggest hindrances is that they make their talent look like defeated high school kids all the time and if they can't overcome that even for Becky that's rough. Pretty much,there is no way to justify her apologising. The crowd didnt want it,no one besides Steph and Triple H gained anything from it. And sure,it is ONE mistake.But many of the recent over acts died because WWE keeps doing MANY mistakes that keep piling up. As long as, when she inevitably shows up on Smackdown tonight (because suspensions don't mean anything in the WWE) she makes it clear that she knows she was dumb to ever trust the McMahons enough to think they might be worth apologising to. I don't mind her showing some weakness or insecurity, because I don't want characters that are one dimensional. She can make mistakes. It's how she reacts to them that I'm interested in seeing.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,630
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Post by markymark on Feb 12, 2019 8:54:54 GMT -5
Seriously this is similar to how everyone was reacting 5 years ago, thinking Bryan wasnt going to win the title due to WWE refusing to listen to the fans, its....so similar.
Becky is going to win at WM, the WWE is stubborn but not THAT stubborn.
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Andy Martin
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,627
Member is Online
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Post by Andy Martin on Feb 12, 2019 8:57:26 GMT -5
I'll deal but I really hope the match doesn't end with everyone breaking character and crying. This. I'm fine with Charlotte being in it, just don't pull this stuff.
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 12, 2019 9:05:20 GMT -5
To me Charlotte is a blocking device, the one preventing the match we want to see from occurring. It's already rumored that at Fast Lane they'll do Becky/Charlotte but what the stip is will be interesting. I'd make it for undisputed #1 contender, but I can see WWE simply saying "If Becky wins she's added back in for a 3 way."
It actually feels like a Big Show 2000 case where Charlotte might have in her contract that she HAS to be in the first ever women's main event.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 12, 2019 9:12:24 GMT -5
Seriously this is similar to how everyone was reacting 5 years ago, thinking Bryan wasnt going to win the title due to WWE refusing to listen to the fans, its....so similar. Becky is going to win at WM, the WWE is stubborn but not THAT stubborn. Like, it’s almost a miracle as it is that Lynch has made it to THIS point of the proceedings. They could have easily, EASILY, kept her as a full, fan-hating heel after SummerSlam like they’d planned at the very beginning. She could have lost way more in the initial Charlotte feud than she did, which amounted to one DQ loss in Australia and a double countout. Hell, one stray punch from Nia Jax doesn’t happen, and by this point, she’d have already had, and likely lost, a match with Rousey.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 12, 2019 9:16:19 GMT -5
To me Charlotte is a blocking device, the one preventing the match we want to see from occurring. It's already rumored that at Fast Lane they'll do Becky/Charlotte but what the stip is will be interesting. I'd make it for undisputed #1 contender, but I can see WWE simply saying "If Becky wins she's added back in for a 3 way." It actually feels like a Big Show 2000 case where Charlotte might have in her contract that she HAS to be in the first ever women's main event. I love the kayfabe theory I saw on Reddit that it was something Ric Flair had signed in his contract when he bought equal controlling share of the WWF at the end of 2001 that one of his children is entitled in writing to a WrestleMania main event. The scary thing was, he was likely expecting this to be for David (I’m not sure where Reid was at at this point, but Charlotte was a non-factor at that time because it was Reid’s death that prompted her to take up wrestling).
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 48,423
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 9:16:53 GMT -5
Seriously this is similar to how everyone was reacting 5 years ago, thinking Bryan wasnt going to win the title due to WWE refusing to listen to the fans, its....so similar. Becky is going to win at WM, the WWE is stubborn but not THAT stubborn. Like, it’s almost a miracle as it is that Lynch has made it to THIS point of the proceedings. They could have easily, EASILY, kept her as a full, fan-hating heel after SummerSlam like they’d planned at the very beginning. She could have lost way more in the initial Charlotte feud than she did, which amounted to one DQ loss in Australia and a double countout. Hell, one stray punch from Nia Jax doesn’t happen, and by this point, she’d have already had, and likely lost, a match with Rousey. The way I see it,there should never had Becky vs Rhonda at Surivor Series,from the start should have been the feud for WM. The Punch gave then the chance to do the right thing AJ! and yet...they may waste that chance
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2019 9:18:06 GMT -5
So speaking from the outside looking in, I think it makes sense for people to be of two co-existing minds about this:
1. A Becky/Ronda/Charlotte match would likely be very good. I'd also say that Becky would be the odds-on favorite to win. Charlotte going off the rails because of the whole Becky situation the past few months is solid character work. All of that is fine.
2. At the same time, it's frustrating that WWE doesn't seem to ever really trust that wrestlers can sell a wrestling match, and always need to add various detours on the way to the fireworks factory that ultimately detract from the overall experience.
When pro wrestling is at its best, the whole "shades of grey" concept ends up working incredibly well...not because you're writing tweeners who are largely unlikeable or something like that, but it means you're writing/booking two fleshed out, developed characters, giving them believable motivations, and then tossing them together to see how their personalities will play off one another. There's a great art to that, and on its own it seems like Lynch vs. Rousey could pull that off.
Adding the McMahons, adding Charlotte, none of them in and of themselves are inherently bad things, but they do detract from the main attraction of a wrestling card: "Come and see these two stars tear one another apart over the following reasons."
Now, maybe this all results in Charlotte being bounced from the match before Mania, so that could end up being decent booking, but as a company WWE needs to work more at developing personalities and then, when they finally have pulled it off (as they have with Becky), then let those personalities clash and allow that conflict to dictate the storytelling and psychology of the feud and the eventual match. Adding too much more becomes a bunch of white noise, if you're not careful.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 9:22:03 GMT -5
I’m literally not watching the show if Charlotte is in this match.
I’m not joking.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 12, 2019 9:22:23 GMT -5
Like, it’s almost a miracle as it is that Lynch has made it to THIS point of the proceedings. They could have easily, EASILY, kept her as a full, fan-hating heel after SummerSlam like they’d planned at the very beginning. She could have lost way more in the initial Charlotte feud than she did, which amounted to one DQ loss in Australia and a double countout. Hell, one stray punch from Nia Jax doesn’t happen, and by this point, she’d have already had, and likely lost, a match with Rousey. The way I see it,there should never had Becky vs Rhonda at Surivor Series,from the start should have been the feud for WM. The Punch gave then the chance to do the right thing AJ! and yet...they may waste that chance The way they set up Survivor Series nowadays, the only way that match doesn’t happen is if one of them drops a title, and it wasn’t going to be Rousey. And it would have meant that Charlotte, in winning the title back at some point before then (probably Evolution) wins the outright feud and Lynch, in no position to really catch fire by cutting all those great promos on Rousey because she’s not set up to fight her, likely stalls out and settles back into her previous role.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 12, 2019 9:22:49 GMT -5
To me Charlotte is a blocking device, the one preventing the match we want to see from occurring. It's already rumored that at Fast Lane they'll do Becky/Charlotte but what the stip is will be interesting. I'd make it for undisputed #1 contender, but I can see WWE simply saying "If Becky wins she's added back in for a 3 way." It actually feels like a Big Show 2000 case where Charlotte might have in her contract that she HAS to be in the first ever women's main event. I love the kayfabe theory I saw on Reddit that it was something Ric Flair had signed in his contract when he bought equal controlling share of the WWF at the end of 2001 that one of his children is entitled in writing to a WrestleMania main event. The scary thing was, he was likely expecting this to be for David (I’m not sure where Reid was at at this point, but Charlotte was a non-factor at that time because it was Reid’s death that prompted her to take up wrestling).
Reid was younger than Ashley, who herself was 15 when that 2001 angle happened.
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,685
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Post by Rican on Feb 12, 2019 9:27:57 GMT -5
I still think it's a no-brainer that Becky wins, and I'm still gonna watch, but I reeeaaalllyyy hate this. It proves Becky's whole point and takes away from her shine. The McMahons really don't need to be involved at all. It dilutes the importance of winning the women's Rumble for the second year in a row of it's two year existence. And we've seen multiple iterations of Becky/Charlotte/whoever else already. It just isn't that interesting or compelling anymore. Yeah the match is gonna be good but just...ugh.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 12, 2019 9:29:00 GMT -5
So speaking from the outside looking in, I think it makes sense for people to be of two co-existing minds about this: 1. A Becky/Ronda/Charlotte match would likely be very good. I'd also say that Becky would be the odds-on favorite to win. Charlotte going off the rails because of the whole Becky situation the past few months is solid character work. All of that is fine. 2. At the same time, it's frustrating that WWE doesn't seem to ever really trust that wrestlers can sell a wrestling match, and always need to add various detours on the way to the fireworks factory that ultimately detract from the overall experience. When pro wrestling is at its best, the whole "shades of grey" concept ends up working incredibly well...not because you're writing tweeners who are largely unlikeable or something like that, but it means you're writing/booking two fleshed out, developed characters, giving them believable motivations, and then tossing them together to see how their personalities will play off one another. There's a great art to that, and on its own it seems like Lynch vs. Rousey could pull that off. Adding the McMahons, adding Charlotte, none of them in and of themselves are inherently bad things, but they do detract from the main attraction of a wrestling card: "Come and see these two stars tear one another apart over the following reasons." Now, maybe this all results in Charlotte being bounced from the match before Mania, so that could end up being decent booking, but as a company WWE needs to work more at developing personalities and then, when they finally have pulled it off (as they have with Becky), then let those personalities clash and allow that conflict to dictate the storytelling and psychology of the feud and the eventual match. Adding too much more becomes a bunch of white noise, if you're not careful.
My read on observing online commentary here and elsewhere is that many people weren't really excited about Becky/Ronda because they were excited for both of them. They just wanted Becky to beat her, and for no one else to get any limelight, even getting annoyed at the possibility of Becky showing weakness at any point. Which is fine, but while a build based around Becky no-selling Ronda's promos and 'owning' her on Twitter time after time makes Becky look good, its not really the most compelling narrative for the shows as a whole, and ignores how WWE in November and December were throwing clear hints at this being a three-way story. And given Raw highlighted how they basically want to use Becky in a Roman Reigns role (she was on screen in what, 6 or 7 segments?), there needs to be more to the story to make that work until Mania rather than burning out somewhere along the way. And now that dissonance with Becky complaining about being 'held back' but really being the strongest booked star in the company doesn't apply, she has genuine cause to feel like she's been screwed, and that gives her more to fight for.
I also think it needs to be highlighted how genuinely historic this feud is. There's been big women's feuds before, but there has never been one that was this grand arc spanning both shows every week. Even Seth/Brock is being treated like an afterthought by comparison.
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