Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Feb 12, 2019 19:22:20 GMT -5
Hey Ghostbusters 2016 was the most disliked trailer ever and look how well that turned out! A modest financial, critical, and commercial success? Losing 75 million is hardly a success.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 12, 2019 19:23:14 GMT -5
WWE is absolutely listening to the crowd (for once) about Becky. That's why we're here at this juncture of the story in the first place. They're doing that right at least. That ain't even up for debate.
Now the rest of this story, there's absolutely discussion to be had. But not-listening-about-Becky shouldn't even be on the table. She's getting that push right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:23:46 GMT -5
How much do you want to bet that the video will surpass the Riott Squad one?
I wont be surprised,especially with the boost of trending But you are comparaing a BIG MAIN SHOW REVELEATION trending vs A post-show with bad audio that wasnt even featured.And that is withotu the argument that is BAD it has so many views and still be one of their most disliked video,its not something you wanna show off. Bruh, you brought it up first in this video when you mentioned views, I later posted my thing away from yours not even talking about you and you responded to me. Like, if you got your opinion ok but you can't act like I'm the one doing wrong here . At the end of the day engagement does matter in Youtube videos, we can't act like it doesn't matter.
But besides that, you've brought up an interesting question I gotta ask you. If you think Becky and Ronda can main event a WM alone...why are you trying to make excuses for that Charlotte video having more engagement? You mean to tell me that these women teaming up isn't a big thing? Rock and Cena teamed up and it was a huge event but these two, are you telling me that it's not an important thing here? If it's so important then explain to me why the engagement isn't higher in that video you posted? If Becky's such a star why isn't the video where she's cleared to fight Ronda higher with engagement when that Charlotte video actually has the same amount of likes than the "Becky's gonna be cleared" one? That's what I'm not getting and it keeps going back to my earlier comment, Becky's popular but her fans think she's way more popular and way more of a star than she actually is.
If you wanted to talk about Youtube then I got those questions. You gotta tell me why the "Becky is cleared" video has the same amount of people liking it as the "Charlotte is replacing her" one because it sounds like to me that it goes back to Alvarez's rant that Becky doesn't move the needle.
You gotta help me out here. Why is that the case?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 19:24:31 GMT -5
The thing is we dont want to see Charlotte lose.-WE DONT WANT HER INVOLVED-. It sucks a lot of the story and engagement for us. But why, if you're not mad about her being booked like Reigns? That's a complaint I've seen in this thread, which I think makes no sense because she's a heel. If you don't dislike Flair's inclusion because of that, why do you dislike it? How does Lynch beating Rousey pay off the story of Lynch's grit getting her to the top despite all the unfair advantages given to others? Rousey would lose and shake Lynch's hand as a measure of respect, because she's def not going to be booked as a bad guy. How is that narratively satisfying? It has nothing to do with everything Becky's put up with so far. Ok good,it wasnt my complaint. My complaint is that she has no reason to be in the story. The whole story was about how both woman want to prove they are the ABSOLUTE best. They are the only two of the big girls that didnt face each other,it has been built for so long and now both sides clashes. And there is Charlotte there too, stopping it from being a decisive match between the two biggest stars.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2019 19:24:32 GMT -5
But it's not about proving herself against Charlotte in a fight. That was my whole point. Charlotte is an obstacle to overcome in beating Ronda. She's a danger to the goal of beating Ronda, by doing the same shit she did at the top, so that this time when Becky overcomes that hurdle and wins, it's a big deal. Narrative devices do not stop being narrative devices just because you don't like them. SHE ALREADY WAS THE OBSTACLE. Now she is just robbing away from the climax of the story,BECAUSE it goes beyond Charlotte. Staining it.You cant cram every concept into one match. They are creating the same conditions as the match that brought about Becky's transformation so that she can succeed in it this time. That's the climax. It's not cramming every concept into it, that's the core conceit of the match.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 19:25:46 GMT -5
I wont be surprised,especially with the boost of trending But you are comparaing a BIG MAIN SHOW REVELEATION trending vs A post-show with bad audio that wasnt even featured.And that is withotu the argument that is BAD it has so many views and still be one of their most disliked video,its not something you wanna show off. Bruh, you brought it up first in this video when you mentioned views, I later posted my thing away from yours not even talking about you and you responded to me. Like, if you got your opinion ok but you can't act like I'm the one doing wrong here . At the end of the day engagement does matter in Youtube videos, we can't act like it doesn't matter.
But besides that, you've brought up an interesting question I gotta ask you. If you think Becky and Charlotte can main event a WM alone why are you trying to make excuses for that Charlotte video having more engagement? You mean to tell me that these women teaming up isn't a big thing? Rock and Cena teamed up and it was a huge event but these two, are you telling me that it's not an important thing here? If it's so important then explain to me why the engagement isn't higher in that video you posted? If Becky's such a star why isn't the video where she's cleared to fight Ronda higher with engagement when that Charlotte video actually has the same amount of likes than the "Becky's gonna be cleared" one?
If you wanted to talk about Youtube then I got those questions. You gotta tell me why the "Becky is cleared" video has the same amount of people liking it as the "Charlotte is replacing her" one because it sounds like to me that it goes back to Alvarez's rant that Becky doesn't move the needle.
You gotta help me out here.
Yes no one moves the needle,stories does,we wnet over tha t abunch. The point i wanted to make is that Rhonda with becky WITHOUT HALF OF THE SUPPORT AND BUILD THE REVELEAITON HAD,Managed to beat in the views.Without the negative feedback too. Then you add the trending showcasing how bad it is, yes of course it will get a boost in views.I'm not stupid,I know more showcase is more views.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 19:28:32 GMT -5
But why, if you're not mad about her being booked like Reigns? That's a complaint I've seen in this thread, which I think makes no sense because she's a heel. If you don't dislike Flair's inclusion because of that, why do you dislike it? How does Lynch beating Rousey pay off the story of Lynch's grit getting her to the top despite all the unfair advantages given to others? Rousey would lose and shake Lynch's hand as a measure of respect, because she's def not going to be booked as a bad guy. How is that narratively satisfying? It has nothing to do with everything Becky's put up with so far. Ok good,it wasnt my complaint. My complaint is that she has no reason to be in the story. The whole story was about how both woman want to prove they are the ABSOLUTE best. They are the only two of the big girls that didnt face each other,it has been built for so long and now both sides clashes. But that's not the story. That's not what it's been so far, and that's not what they've set up moving forward. Like, you want the story to be something it isn't. And... you kinda want the story to not BE a story at all. Because "Woman 1 Vs. Woman 2 To Decide Who's The Best," all by itself, isn't a story. There's no narrative. It's empty. Someone was right when they said they could BUILD A STORY with a 1-on-1 match between the two, but there's two problems there. The first is that Rousey won't allow herself to look like a bad guy the way the story would require it. And the second is, it should be connected to Lynch's journey so far, SOMEHOW, because the culminating moment is her winning.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 19:28:42 GMT -5
SHE ALREADY WAS THE OBSTACLE. Now she is just robbing away from the climax of the story,BECAUSE it goes beyond Charlotte. Staining it.You cant cram every concept into one match. They are creating the same conditions as the match that brought about Becky's transformation so that she can succeed in it this time. That's the climax. It's not cramming every concept into it, that's the core conceit of the match. No ,the core people expected was the two biggest forces in the division clashing,after they prove to be the two baddest bitches in the building. What we got is something completely different of that and overdone. You have the charlotte "bookending",Charlotte showcasing the nepotism ,you have Ronda leaving for the last match, you have Becky looking to be the best(Which already goes against the concept of a triplethreat) , Ronda finally wanting to shut up Becky,the clasHes of the two strongest girls in the WWE that never faced each other.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 12, 2019 19:30:09 GMT -5
A modest financial, critical, and commercial success? Losing 75 million is hardly a success. Yeah the it was not a financial or commercial success. If it was they wouldn't have dropped all plans on the Ghostbusters shared universe.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 19:30:17 GMT -5
WWE is absolutely listening to the crowd (for once) about Becky. That's why we're here at this juncture of the story in the first place. They're doing that right at least. That ain't even up for debate. Now the rest of this story, there's absolutely discussion to be had. But not-listening-about-Becky shouldn't even be on the table. She's getting that push right now. That is not even what I freaking said.I said WWE barely listen and I gave props to what they did and showed exmaples that they still do a lot of not listening and making what they want.So i'm gone now.not gonna defend from a point I didnt make.Ther eis already too much in my plate time for a break from this
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:30:35 GMT -5
especially cause the point of a heel is not just... "get booed" or "be hated by fans" But see this is the confusing part. People are treating this like they're being told that Charlotte is their favorite wrestler and is a winner, and will be pushed above Lynch, like they were told about Reigns. People are booing the booking for that reason: "We hate that you just assume we'll like Reigns/Cena/whoever and keep pushing them down our throats as our hero!" But like... that's very obviously not what's happening here. This is all about Lynch. That 'booking' is happening, but it's very clearly KAYFABED. Charlotte's gonna lose badly; in the meantime, she's going to act like queen of the world. It's so storyline-contained, I kinda don't see why people are getting all meta and worrying about the booking as if this hurts Lynch. It's like The Rock getting unfairly pushed to a title match because he's The Corporate Champ, but people are treating it like Rocky Miavia getting a huge push as a never-say-die babyface they don't think he deserves. Exactly my mindset. I’ve seen so many people in multiple wrestling communities act as though they’re pushing Charlotte as this babyface whos going to squash Becky and Ronda in 15 second when that’s clearly not the case. The narrative is that Becky is once again being screwed over by Charlotte, a probably intentional callback to SummerSlam, by being inserted into her slot while Lynch is suspended until after Mania. They’re not doing this to make Charlotte be like Roman, they’re doing it to make Charlotte he like corporate Rock. For one, they’ve turned her heel. Officially. No more “they’re still pushing Charlotte as a babyface aka Woman Reigns.” as they’re done with that. Charlottes a heel and Becky is the babyface who has to scratch her way back to the top and will likely win at Mania.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:31:55 GMT -5
Also man, people have gotta realize that Charlotte isn't being added to the Becky match. Becky got added to the Charlotte match. They changed their plans to make this the story of super badass Becky Lynch storming into a match they didn't have in mind for her and standing tall in the end. For once in a blue moon WWE is actually following the fans' backlash against something, adapting their plans, and changing things up to push someone as a star. Them preying on those expectations just to build up the match seems like a weird thing to get super angry about. Also how I feel on it. You can be skeptical, but not too skeptical to where it ruins your viewpoint on the entire angle. An angle that’s extremely predictable to call.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 12, 2019 19:34:07 GMT -5
WWE is absolutely listening to the crowd (for once) about Becky. That's why we're here at this juncture of the story in the first place. They're doing that right at least. That ain't even up for debate. Now the rest of this story, there's absolutely discussion to be had. But not-listening-about-Becky shouldn't even be on the table. She's getting that push right now. That is not even what I freaking said.I said WWE barely listen and I gave props to what they did and showed exmaples that they still do a lot of not listening and making what they want.So i'm gone now.not gonna defend from a point I didnt make.Ther eis already too much in my plate time for a break from this Ok? I never said you said that. I didn't quote you. Didn't tag you. It came up in someone else's post on the last page so in a blanket way I said it shouldn't even be a point of discussion. Like, why is this even personal for you? Chill pill, man.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 12, 2019 19:34:58 GMT -5
That is not even what I freaking said.I said WWE barely listen and I gave props to what they did and showed exmaples that they still do a lot of not listening and making what they want.So i'm gone now.not gonna defend from a point I didnt make.Ther eis already too much in my plate time for a break from this Ok? I never said you said that. I didn't quote you. Didn't tag you. It came up in someone else's post on the last page so in a blanket way I said it shouldn't even be a point of discussion. Like, why is this even personal for you? Chill pill, man. Because I was the only one that brought WWE not listening.But yeh I said I would take a break,I tryed replying too many people at once. Went into overdrive.But i'm not angry or anything. Well maybe I would get if I started defending against "you wanted the wrong story".Thats what the break is for
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Post by Doctor No on Feb 12, 2019 19:37:13 GMT -5
If Becky's such a star why isn't the video where she's cleared to fight Ronda higher with engagement when that Charlotte video actually has the same amount of likes than the "Becky's gonna be cleared" one? Becky being cleared was a non-story that was never in any doubt and somebody being added to the match is a story??
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 12, 2019 19:37:59 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, I can imagine two reasons to be leery of this booking, but neither involves Becky.
First is that Charlotte coming in with the "overprivileged because the bookers love her" schtick distracts from the fact that... that's actually Rhonda. You got Rousey in there main-evening Wrestlemania, and people are seriously annoyed that CHARLOTTE is getting a spot she doesn't deserve? Rousey is the Roman Reigns in this situation, not Charlotte.
And second... more worrying... is the fact that adding a clear heel to the match makes Rousey... more of a face. I'm 100% sure they won't have a heel win the first WM main event women's match. But... but they wouldn't. Right? They wouldn't have ROUSEY WIN, would they?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2019 19:39:10 GMT -5
They are creating the same conditions as the match that brought about Becky's transformation so that she can succeed in it this time. That's the climax. It's not cramming every concept into it, that's the core conceit of the match. No ,the core people expected was the two biggest forces in the division clashing,after they prove to be the two baddest bitches in the building. What we got is something completely different of that and overdone. You have the charlotte "bookending",Charlotte showcasing the nepotism ,you have Ronda leaving for the last match, you have Becky looking to be the best(Which already goes against the concept of a triplethreat) , Ronda finally wanting to shut up Becky,the clasHes of the two strongest girls in the WWE that never faced each other. This was Charlotte's match, dude. Becky got inserted into it and they rewrote everything, and now she's the primary focus. But just because you expected a story to go one way doesn't inherently mean it can't be well executed going in another way. Getting mad that Becky vs. Ronda isn't being billed as something when it was never advertised or said to be or even hinted as being such, and it's been known for a while now how the plan has gone feels really weird to me.
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Post by Doctor No on Feb 12, 2019 19:44:08 GMT -5
No ,the core people expected was the two biggest forces in the division clashing,after they prove to be the two baddest bitches in the building. What we got is something completely different of that and overdone. You have the charlotte "bookending",Charlotte showcasing the nepotism ,you have Ronda leaving for the last match, you have Becky looking to be the best(Which already goes against the concept of a triplethreat) , Ronda finally wanting to shut up Becky,the clasHes of the two strongest girls in the WWE that never faced each other. This was Charlotte's match, dude. Becky got inserted into it and they rewrote everything, and now she's the primary focus. But just because you expected a story to go one way doesn't inherently mean it can't be well executed going in another way. Getting mad that Becky vs. Ronda isn't being billed as something when it was never advertised or said to be or even hinted as being such, and it's been known for a while now how the plan has gone feels really weird to me. This originally being Charlotte’s match was never advertised either. Booking and promotion was leading people to want/expect a Becky/Ronda match.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:46:03 GMT -5
Bruh, you brought it up first in this video when you mentioned views, I later posted my thing away from yours not even talking about you and you responded to me. Like, if you got your opinion ok but you can't act like I'm the one doing wrong here . At the end of the day engagement does matter in Youtube videos, we can't act like it doesn't matter.
But besides that, you've brought up an interesting question I gotta ask you. If you think Becky and Charlotte can main event a WM alone why are you trying to make excuses for that Charlotte video having more engagement? You mean to tell me that these women teaming up isn't a big thing? Rock and Cena teamed up and it was a huge event but these two, are you telling me that it's not an important thing here? If it's so important then explain to me why the engagement isn't higher in that video you posted? If Becky's such a star why isn't the video where she's cleared to fight Ronda higher with engagement when that Charlotte video actually has the same amount of likes than the "Becky's gonna be cleared" one?
If you wanted to talk about Youtube then I got those questions. You gotta tell me why the "Becky is cleared" video has the same amount of people liking it as the "Charlotte is replacing her" one because it sounds like to me that it goes back to Alvarez's rant that Becky doesn't move the needle.
You gotta help me out here.
Yes no one moves the needle,stories does,we wnet over tha t abunch. The point i wanted to make is that Rhonda with becky WITHOUT HALF OF THE SUPPORT AND BUILD THE REVELEAITON HAD,Managed to beat in the views.Without the negative feedback too. Then you add the trending showcasing how bad it is, yes of course it will get a boost in views.I'm not stupid,I know more showcase is more views. I'm going to skip the Youtube stuff because we got into something we need to unpack here. That stuff isn't important.
Ronda's the star in this case and that's my entire point, you're using Ronda herself as an example when it's Ronda. Nobody's really moving that needle but Ronda is a mainstream star. Anyone who's in a match with Ronda can theoretically main event a WM and it would make sense to a degree. Could be Becky, Charlotte, Nia Jax, Alexa, it's Ronda Rousey. Becky isn't a star yet. So I'm wondering what the big deal is because we know Ronda's going to be in the match anyway, that much is said but besides that? I don't get anything besides the fact people like Becky. I'm not seeing anything about how it helps others beyond this, how it helps the division, all of that stuff I haven't had anyone explain when I and others have explained our povs regarding that. Bryan, Bryan had the Yes Chant, Bryan was mainstream with Total Divas, Bryan had a lot going for him but I'm not seeing that for Becky. I'm not seeing how she's "money" and I'm not seeing how this is "the story everyone wanted" because it for sure is not the story everyone wanted. When you've got some people actually liking the triple threat idea and/or the idea of Charlotte replacing Becky...that's not everyone. I said I'd get away from Youtube but when you've got the same amount of people liking Charlotte replacing Ronda as the amount of people liking Becky being cleared it looks to me that Becky and Charlotte are on the same tier which makes sense given that's how this company's presented them.
I've seen a lot of "Becky's a star" and "this is the money match" comments on the internet but nobody is telling me how Becky's making money nor are they telling me how Becky's a star. I'm seeing pics of Becky cutting promos in low seated arenas and yet next thing you know I see another "Becky's a star" comment. I'm seeing "Becky is the best and she deserves this" but then I see her steamrolling everyone else which only helps her out and helps nobody else out. Imma be real, it sounds like people are taking her popularity and trying to use that like a silver bullet in their arguments but when you explain other reasons nobody can give you a clear cut answer besides "she's popular and this is the story I want." If people just like Becky's Bryan WM30 story except her version of it I'd be like "man that's your opinion, I don't like that but that's you" that's 100% ok. But when you get the "Becky's a star" and "she can do it with just Ronda" I'm like "but who can't do it with Ronda" and at that point you gotta have something else.
At the end of the day Ronda's the star and whoever main events this ppv will be a star by proxy. Becky's the most popular wrestler in the company right now. Besides that I'm just not seeing anything else besides "I like the Becky story more" and if that's what you feel then ok, that's cool but I'm seeing a lot of stuff against that.
Basically I'm asking that if there's anything else you have that's not "I like Becky and I like her story against Ronda more." If that's what you got then I'll respect it and your opinion. If you got more than that then hey I wanna know.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 12, 2019 19:49:23 GMT -5
This was Charlotte's match, dude. Becky got inserted into it and they rewrote everything, and now she's the primary focus. But just because you expected a story to go one way doesn't inherently mean it can't be well executed going in another way. Getting mad that Becky vs. Ronda isn't being billed as something when it was never advertised or said to be or even hinted as being such, and it's been known for a while now how the plan has gone feels really weird to me. This originally being Charlotte’s match was never advertised either. Booking and promotion was leading people to want/expect a Becky/Ronda match. Not what I mean there. From backstage news we know what the initial plan was, and we know that Becky's injury and rise to stardom changed those plans. Countering what the story being told is with "But it's supposed to be this other entirely different thing" it never really was like the expectation was strongly set is a bad counterpoint. We can't just ignore the metatext on what we've been hearing for months when we're also complaining about the metatext
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