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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:51:55 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, I can imagine two reasons to be leery of this booking, but neither involves Becky. First is that Charlotte coming in with the "overprivileged because the bookers love her" schtick distracts from the fact that... that's actually Rhonda. You got Rousey in there main-evening Wrestlemania, and people are seriously annoyed that CHARLOTTE is getting a spot she doesn't deserve? Rousey is the Roman Reigns in this situation, not Charlotte. And second... more worrying... is the fact that adding a clear heel to the match makes Rousey... more of a face. I'm 100% sure they won't have a heel win the first WM main event women's match. But... but they wouldn't. Right? They wouldn't have ROUSEY WIN, would they? Nah, she’s apparently leaving to take time off after Mania and might come back at SSeries if she hasn’t started a family by then. And they for sure are not going to pull a Brock with her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:52:15 GMT -5
SHE ALREADY WAS THE OBSTACLE. Now she is just robbing away from the climax of the story,BECAUSE it goes beyond Charlotte. Staining it.You cant cram every concept into one match. They are creating the same conditions as the match that brought about Becky's transformation so that she can succeed in it this time. That's the climax. It's not cramming every concept into it, that's the core conceit of the match. Except she's been there and done that. She beat Charlotte and Carmella at the same time in a triple threat a month ago. We've done this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:54:02 GMT -5
They are creating the same conditions as the match that brought about Becky's transformation so that she can succeed in it this time. That's the climax. It's not cramming every concept into it, that's the core conceit of the match. Except she's been there and done that. She beat Charlotte and Carmella at the same time in a triple threat a month ago. We've done this. Except that didn’t feature the woman she’s been wanting to get her hands on since SSeries and was just a thrown together triple threat on an episode of Smackdown.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:55:16 GMT -5
Except she's been there and done that. She beat Charlotte and Carmella at the same time in a triple threat a month ago. We've done this. Except that didn’t feature the woman she’s been wanting to get her hands on since SSeries and was just a thrown together triple threat on an episode of Smackdown. I mean, yeah, and? She's beaten Charlotte for the belt. She's beaten Charlotte in a triple threat with the woman Charlotte stole her thunder against. She's beaten Charlotte to win the Rumble. There is zero to be gained from continuing to beat Charlotte.
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Post by Doctor No on Feb 12, 2019 19:59:32 GMT -5
Except that didn’t feature the woman she’s been wanting to get her hands on since SSeries and was just a thrown together triple threat on an episode of Smackdown. I mean, yeah, and? She's beaten Charlotte for the belt. She's beaten Charlotte in a triple threat with the woman Charlotte stole her thunder against. She's beaten Charlotte to win the Rumble. There is zero to be gained from continuing to beat Charlotte. Don’t you get it? The feud isn’t over until Charlotte and Becky have a triple threat involving ever female superstar at least once. Classic booking. HEAT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 20:04:25 GMT -5
To me Charlotte being in the match is a very pure move. Wrestlemania main events should go to folks who put the best work in, and the Charlotte/Becky feud was and is one that warrants a Wrestlemania main event. Their rivalry still has legs.
I understand why people would rather have the Ronda/Becky match but that's purely a preference thing. I don't agree with anyone who thinks there is money being left on the table because Charlotte was added to the match. Whether it's Ronda vs. Charlotte, Ronda vs. Becky, or a triple threat, if it makes any difference to the bottom line it has to be fairly marginal.
Charlotte is great as the persistent thorn in Becky's side, I like that her addition, as well as the McMahon involvement gives fans something more tangible to boo. To be honest, a three month feud where Becky comes around, smugly dismisses Ronda while fans boo the shit out of her just because she's not Becky, doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I think this story is a lot more fun in giving Becky this stacked deck against her, and I think it puts Ronda in a better position because her character never really asked for this shit show either.
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Post by RedSmile on Feb 12, 2019 20:40:45 GMT -5
To me Charlotte being in the match is a very pure move. Wrestlemania main events should go to folks who put the best work in, and the Charlotte/Becky feud was and is one that warrants a Wrestlemania main event. Their rivalry still has legs. I understand why people would rather have the Ronda/Becky match but that's purely a preference thing. I don't agree with anyone who thinks there is money being left on the table because Charlotte was added to the match. Whether it's Ronda vs. Charlotte, Ronda vs. Becky, or a triple threat, if it makes any difference to the bottom line it has to be fairly marginal. Charlotte is great as the persistent thorn in Becky's side, I like that her addition, as well as the McMahon involvement gives fans something more tangible to boo. To be honest, a three month feud where Becky comes around, smugly dismisses Ronda while fans boo the shit out of her just because she's not Becky, doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I think this story is a lot more fun in giving Becky this stacked deck against her, and I think it puts Ronda in a better position because her character never really asked for this shit show either. Really?!?!?!? In that case the main event should be Pete Dunne vs Johnny Gargano.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 12, 2019 20:58:27 GMT -5
Her promo tonight highlighted why she's needed in the match/feud. Why have someone like Ronda as the unofficial 'heel' (only by virtue of being against Becky rather than her actual character actions or rhetoric) who gets badly rattled by crowds when you can have Charlotte as a proper heel who can handle hostile crowds with ease and relishes making them madder?
Its also an argument against the 'Becky takes her spot back and Charlotte's not in the match' theory. Of course Becky's going to be re-added to the match, but why cut Charlotte out of the last four weeks of the build when you could have yourself a bigger match and moment with Becky beating both in front of 70,000 fans?
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Feb 12, 2019 21:08:02 GMT -5
This thread went to plaid I see...
An interesting discussion though I must say.
I still stand by my theory from the day after the Rumble; Charlotte is in this match because “Can’t have HISTORY without Charlotte” AND to take the L/tap out so that Ronda can lose the belt without actually getting pinned.
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schma
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Post by schma on Feb 13, 2019 1:32:02 GMT -5
Well this thread jumped 8 pages while I was at work and I got through most of it. I've seen a lot of argument put out, one is that Charlotte is the safety measure for Ronda in case she fails to perform, in case she cracks. If this is such a concern, she has no business in the WM main event. She was shook in that promo vs Becky but I am hard pressed to think of any other time in my 3 decades of watching wrestling where a face was booed steadily for that long. I think anyone would be a bit shook. That said, Ronda has made a habit of proving the doubters wrong since coming to WWE, myself included. I groaned when they announced her, thinking we had another Brock but she proved me wrong. She's up to this.
I've seen a lot of talk about how Becky isn't elevating anyone. Becky is still rising. Imagine if they had cut Goldberg's winning streak short so that he could elevate some folks. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people elevating each other. I agree that if Becky continues to run roughshod over people, eventually it will end poorly. However, she's still gaining steam and has a way to go before that is a huge concern.
The other side of this elevating coin though is Charlotte. She's been at the forefront of any division she's been in for four years now. She is almost never out of title contention unless she has a belt or is injured. Despite being Becky's bitch for six months she's still seen as one of if not the top woman in WWE. She's plenty elevated. She's so elevated that folks say to go after Asuka would be a downgrade for her. A title match would be a downgrade for her. However, she could elevate Asuka. She should have come out the Smackdown after Rumble ranting about how she should have the belt, how Asuka's win over Becky should be hers. She should have come out ready to prove to the world what she's so fond of saying to paraphrase Bayley, that Asuka ain't shit, to prove that her win over Asuka was no fluke. Here we could have had Charlotte elevating someone.
I've also seen a few mentions that Charlotte is needed because her moveset has more markout moments than Becky's. They need to have an exciting last match because people have been there for 45 years already. My issue with that is that Wrestlemania has been spectacle from day one. Did anyone expect a five star classic from Rock/Hogan? No. Were they still pumped? Yeah. I know that Becky/Ronda is not Rock/Hogan. My point is that both of them are quite capable of putting on a great match with a lot of intensity. I would argue that Becky/Asuka and Ronda/Sasha were the best matches of the night at the Rumble. Even one on one, Ronda will make Becky earn that victory. Yeah Becky is on a tear and most of us agree that she's ending 'Mania victorious (hopefully by beating Ronda) but at the end of the day she's up against Ronda Freakin' Rousey. No matter how much we may think this is in the bag, this is Ronda and Becky will have to dig down deep and bring everything she has to get the win. I know that these two could put on a hell of a match that would put a lot of WM main events to shame. Look at the last 4 main events: WM34 Roman vs Brock, notable for numerous this is awful and boring chants. Featured a lot of big poppy moves though. WM33 Roman vs a broken down Taker. WM32 Roman vs 2016 HHH, not a bad match but hardly five star. WM 31 Roman vs Brock 1, sadly the beginning of suplex city but actually an okay match. Hardly five stars though. The year before that was Daniel Bryan and as much as I loved the end, I really don't remember much of the actual match.
At this point though, there's the people who think Charlotte should be in this match and the people who think she shouldn't and I honestly don't think either side is budging, so while I am tempted to reiterate some of my arguments from earlier in the thread I think I might leave it at this.
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schma
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Post by schma on Feb 13, 2019 1:41:17 GMT -5
Oh I also forgot the time I was at Smackdown the week after Summerslam. Becky laid Charlotte out and left. The crowd was going insane. While Charlotte was recovering they showed a replay and the arena started chanting you deserve it at Charlotte while she was still laid out in the ring. For me, Becky's Charlotte story should be done for the time being. It's been a great story but it's been six months. Pretty soon the Miz, Kofi and Dolph are going to have an intervention because they're having too many matches together.
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Post by Ryushinku on Feb 13, 2019 3:47:29 GMT -5
Really good promo on SD. Charlotte is comfortable as hell being the heel, which takes the pressure off Ronda a bit while Becky's the clear face-with-an-edge.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 13, 2019 6:18:53 GMT -5
Her promo tonight highlighted why she's needed in the match/feud. Why have someone like Ronda as the unofficial 'heel' (only by virtue of being against Becky rather than her actual character actions or rhetoric) who gets badly rattled by crowds when you can have Charlotte as a proper heel who can handle hostile crowds with ease and relishes making them madder? Its also an argument against the 'Becky takes her spot back and Charlotte's not in the match' theory. Of course Becky's going to be re-added to the match, but why cut Charlotte out of the last four weeks of the build when you could have yourself a bigger match and moment with Becky beating both in front of 70,000 fans? On the latter point, I'd just argue that it's not needed at all; personally, I'd find the one-on-one to be the bigger match. On the earlier point, though, that's a genuine concern, but it does make it tough to put all the eggs into the basket of "this should be the year with the first ever all-women WM main event" when you're concerned that one of your top names can't handle a hostile crowd reaction.
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Post by sunnytaker on Feb 13, 2019 10:07:50 GMT -5
charlotte is much better as a heel but i'd just as soon see rousey vs becky 1v1 and make it nice and simple. but I heard rumors that the wwe really doesn't want rousey to be seen as the heel which was going to happen if it stayed 1v1 so let charlotte come in to absorb the heel heat rousey was getting so she can stay tweener at worst, given how becky clearly has the crowd on her side against either of the other two.
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Feb 13, 2019 10:13:26 GMT -5
Charlotte being in the match isn't necessarily going to accomplish making Ronda more face. If anything, I see it more like Charlotte being Randy Orton, Ronda being Batista, and Becky being Daniel Bryan.
I also thought of one spot in the Mania main event (assuming they don't botch by excluding Becky and do give it the main event) that would make the whole thing worthwhile. If Charlotte hits Natural Selection on Becky while she has the Disarm-her on Ronda, casting a callback to Charlotte's stolen victory at Summerslam, only for Becky to kick out this time (because Wrestlemania) en route to winning the match would be enough to have subsequently sell me on the triple threat. The exclusion of that spot would be unfortunate.
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Post by willywonka666 on Feb 13, 2019 10:24:10 GMT -5
I'm barely paying attention, but it made sense to me to have a three way, have beck win, so Ronda doesn't actually lose and Becky comes off strong as winning after wrestling two people. Ronda takes off, comes back as a heel for a title she never lost and well, that's all I got.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Feb 13, 2019 10:49:03 GMT -5
I’m starting to think adding Charlotte is really a way to take heat off of Ronda.
Rousey’s on twitter talking about how she wants the singles match just like the fans. They’ve done this from day one with her where they deflect negative backlash on her by having her cut promos saying she agrees with the criticism and totally didn’t want this.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 13, 2019 10:57:50 GMT -5
If Charlotte is so good how come she botches pointing at the sign constantly
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Post by Prince Petty on Feb 13, 2019 11:17:45 GMT -5
If Charlotte is so good how come she botches pointing at the sign constantly She's actually pointing at a very small Fastlane sign, tucked away right at the back of the building.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 13, 2019 11:40:03 GMT -5
Her promo tonight highlighted why she's needed in the match/feud. Why have someone like Ronda as the unofficial 'heel' (only by virtue of being against Becky rather than her actual character actions or rhetoric) who gets badly rattled by crowds when you can have Charlotte as a proper heel who can handle hostile crowds with ease and relishes making them madder? Its also an argument against the 'Becky takes her spot back and Charlotte's not in the match' theory. Of course Becky's going to be re-added to the match, but why cut Charlotte out of the last four weeks of the build when you could have yourself a bigger match and moment with Becky beating both in front of 70,000 fans? On the latter point, I'd just argue that it's not needed at all; personally, I'd find the one-on-one to be the bigger match. On the earlier point, though, that's a genuine concern, but it does make it tough to put all the eggs into the basket of "this should be the year with the first ever all-women WM main event" when you're concerned that one of your top names can't handle a hostile crowd reaction.
Sure, but what do they do with the build? WWE has wanted to use Becky very heavily in this, last night's SDL was the first show she wasn't heavily featured on in about three weeks. You can have her and Ronda confront each other more often, but it risks being diminishing returns, especially when Ronda's struggling with her promos (in part because of the heavily pro-Becky crowds) and Becky's just no-selling them by smirking at her the whole time. Its not making Ronda look like a threat, just like Becky 'owning' her every time on social media isn't really helping that sense either, its just making Becky's eventual win look very predictable, or alternatively making fans furious by having Ronda win and Becky miss out on her 'moment'. You could go the opposite and just lightly feature them (say a couple of training montages, a backstage interview or two, etc: ) to keep the build going , but then that requires featuring Becky less when WWE is trying hard to present her as the top face in the company. I think part of why they're using Charlotte is that they see her as that top heel who will go all out to help Becky, and take a lot of the weight off Ronda's shoulders.
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