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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 11:47:02 GMT -5
100% agree with this. I know it's wrestling and anything can happen and that this shit is all fake (and that people like my boy lil Finn Balor would get his ass handed to him IRL by peeps like Braun, Drew, and especially Lashley and Brock) but it's really weird seeing a 5'2'' girl like Candice Larae go against men (even if they are indy-sized guys). Yes this shit’s fake and it’s been public knowledge since the forties but still there’s gotta be suspension of disbelief. A tiny person can’t suplex someone that’s got more than a hundred pounds on them. I believe that Babydoll can beat the f*** out of Jim Cornette because everybody and their mother could beat up Jim Cornette, that was his role and Doll was bigger than him. But I’ll never buy Candice beating up Brian f***ing Cage. If Candice was taller and bigger then I could believe it. This is where presentation comes into play. WWE trying to do intergender is never going any further than...a larger sized woman vs smaller man whether that means heavier set or just built like chyna in WWE thst is the only way it works. in LU they world built to be specifically more comicbook like where anything is allowed to happen because it is a fictional world Where as this in any other company has people up in arms but in LU it is fight with implications that further a story because that is world that this show exsists in.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 13, 2019 12:02:50 GMT -5
Yes this shit’s fake and it’s been public knowledge since the forties but still there’s gotta be suspension of disbelief. A tiny person can’t suplex someone that’s got more than a hundred pounds on them. I believe that Babydoll can beat the f*** out of Jim Cornette because everybody and their mother could beat up Jim Cornette, that was his role and Doll was bigger than him. But I’ll never buy Candice beating up Brian f***ing Cage. If Candice was taller and bigger then I could believe it. This is where presentation comes into play. WWE trying to do intergender is never going any further than...a larger sized woman vs smaller man whether that means heavier set or just built like chyna in WWE thst is the only way it works. in LU they world built to be specifically more comicbook like where anything is allowed to happen because it is a fictional world Where as this in any other company has people up in arms but in LU it is fight with implications that further a story because that is world that this show exsists in. To me LU is Robert Rodriguez’ canon and in it it’s normal for the female characters to be bigger than life and badasses. Like The Mariachi series, Dusk till Dawn, and Sin City. I guess depends on the company too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 13:57:55 GMT -5
When a woman beats up a man in real life, it's impressive.
When a -150 lbs woman beats up a 200+ lbs man in scripted entertainment, it just looks really fake and turns both wrestlers into a joke.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 13, 2019 18:34:35 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I think that if we've been buying anyone selling for Rey Mysterio these past three decades then we're full of shit if we don't want to see women wrestle men.
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Post by honsou on Feb 14, 2019 2:34:37 GMT -5
The less of an emphasis on the fact that its an intergender match the better it ends up working.
The best example is how Meiko Satomura is used on the indies. She just beats the crap out of people, everyone knows shes going to kick thr crap out of you and she just happens to be a woman
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 14, 2019 2:53:24 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I think that if we've been buying anyone selling for Rey Mysterio these past three decades then we're full of shit if we don't want to see women wrestle men. I think Rey's been better than he has been since like 2006, if not before even, but that does kinda remind me: Play to the strengths. Is the woman quicker? Use that. More flexible? Use that. Crafty? Use that. There are 1001 ways a wrestler can overcome a size advantage and level the playing field, book accordingly.
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Post by Heartbreaker on Feb 14, 2019 2:56:32 GMT -5
It's wrestling. Wrestling. You know, where people beat the ever living shit out of each other and somehow aren't dead. Then one of the most popular wrestlers of all-time is a zombie who teleports, whose brother sets things on fire with his mind. So why can't a dude get beaten up by a lady? But I will say that it works better when there's no divisions, so how Lucha Underground does it. Everyone's equal that way. Chyna felt like she was on a whole other level above the women of the WWF in 2000/2001. If she didn't end up leaving the company, I honestly don't know who would have beaten her for the Women's Championship.
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Post by Sephiroth on Feb 14, 2019 3:30:01 GMT -5
The Beulah vs Bill Alfonso match remains one of the most intense and most grotesque matches I’ve ever see. The amount of blood was just stomach turning, and you could tell neither of them had much experience giving or receiving bumps and that they were legit beating the crap out of each other.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 14, 2019 3:37:15 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I think that if we've been buying anyone selling for Rey Mysterio these past three decades then we're full of shit if we don't want to see women wrestle men. I think Rey's been better than he has been since like 2006, if not before even, but that does kinda remind me: Play to the strengths. Is the woman quicker? Use that. More flexible? Use that. Crafty? Use that. There are 1001 ways a wrestler can overcome a size advantage and level the playing field, book accordingly. I agree completely about Rey, but it wasn't competence I was referring to, it was size. Mick Foley said in his book that being punched in the face by an eight year old still hurt. This motherf***er used to get hit with barbed wire bats, for f***'s sake.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 14, 2019 3:38:04 GMT -5
It's wrestling. Wrestling. You know, where people beat the ever living shit out of each other and somehow aren't dead. Then one of the most popular wrestlers of all-time is a zombie who teleports, whose brother sets things on fire with his mind. So why can't a dude get beaten up by a lady? But I will say that it works better when there's no divisions, so how Lucha Underground does it. Everyone's equal that way. Chyna felt like she was on a whole other level above the women of the WWF in 2000/2001. If she didn't end up leaving the company, I honestly don't know who would have beaten her for the Women's Championship. I know she seemed resistant to put her over, but I guess Lita, since if she didn't leave, they would have probably made her do it one way or another.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 14, 2019 3:39:33 GMT -5
I think Rey's been better than he has been since like 2006, if not before even, but that does kinda remind me: Play to the strengths. Is the woman quicker? Use that. More flexible? Use that. Crafty? Use that. There are 1001 ways a wrestler can overcome a size advantage and level the playing field, book accordingly. I agree completely about Rey, but it wasn't competence I was referring to, it was size. Mick Foley said in his book that being punched in the face by an eight year old still hurt. This motherf***er used to get hit with barbed wire bats, for f***'s sake. Ah, true, makes sense. Thought this was in reference to some of his more questionable finishers, like that crummy splash he'd do that looked like it hit with the force of a cereal box falling off of the shelf.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 14, 2019 3:41:49 GMT -5
I agree completely about Rey, but it wasn't competence I was referring to, it was size. Mick Foley said in his book that being punched in the face by an eight year old still hurt. This motherf***er used to get hit with barbed wire bats, for f***'s sake. Ah, true, makes sense. Thought this was in reference to some of his more questionable finishers, like that crummy splash he'd do that looked like it hit with the force of a cereal box falling off of the shelf. To be honest that's still applicable, too. Can people seriously say that some sloppy brain chop by Khali looks like it hurts more than a Nikki Bella forearm?
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 14, 2019 4:10:48 GMT -5
Ah, true, makes sense. Thought this was in reference to some of his more questionable finishers, like that crummy splash he'd do that looked like it hit with the force of a cereal box falling off of the shelf. To be honest that's still applicable, too. Can people seriously say that some sloppy brain chop by Khali looks like it hurts more than a Nikki Bella forearm? I'm sure that given the mass of his hand, it could have force behind it (fine with it as a strike, sucked as a finisher. His vice grip was his best finisher, probably), but yeah, Nikki looks like she puts a lot behind her forearm, just blasts people.
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Post by Dang! on Feb 14, 2019 8:08:37 GMT -5
I f***ing HATE them in WWE and TNA, because they have always been a f***ing joke with LOTS of restrictions. I didn't like them in Lucha Underground, but at least they were executed correctly. I still can't buy a 150 Lbs girl (no matter how ripped she is) having a chance against a 250 lbs roided guy, but it's wrestling and pretty much on Batista vs. Rey Misterio levels.
The worst thing are intergender Tag Team matches where girls can't be hurt. Stupidest form of wrestling EVER and that includes Reverse Battle Royales.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 9:06:05 GMT -5
So long as the women are portrayed as able to compete instead of helpless victims I'm perfectly fine with them. I don't see it as any different from a woman being able to fight men in movies or comics or whatever.
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Post by Sam Punk on Feb 14, 2019 23:10:41 GMT -5
I have no problem. It's all so choreographed now that it feels like you're watching a dance more than a fight.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Feb 14, 2019 23:18:08 GMT -5
I think it's great, and not even in the backhanded "Well, I guess if this is what pro wrestling has come to...." kind of way I'm seeing a bit of in here. Basically, like someone said above, if I as a fan can buy Rey Mysterio beating Batista, the Big Show, or the like.....yeah, I have no problem believing a woman beating a man significantly smaller than those guys.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 0:27:43 GMT -5
100% agree with this. I know it's wrestling and anything can happen and that this shit is all fake (and that people like my boy lil Finn Balor would get his ass handed to him IRL by peeps like Braun, Drew, and especially Lashley and Brock) but it's really weird seeing a 5'2'' girl like Candice Larae go against men (even if they are indy-sized guys). Yes this shit’s fake and it’s been public knowledge since the forties but still there’s gotta be suspension of disbelief. A tiny person can’t suplex someone that’s got more than a hundred pounds on them. I believe that Babydoll can beat the f*** out of Jim Cornette because everybody and their mother could beat up Jim Cornette, that was his role and Doll was bigger than him. But I’ll never buy Candice beating up Brian f***ing Cage. If Candice was taller and bigger then I could believe it. You have to suspend disbelief for the match to be booked. Men and women don't compete against each other in MMA, hell they don't compete against each other in golf (I think!) in a world where 95% of sports are gender segregated there's no way wrestling would allow it if it were 'real'.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 15, 2019 0:35:00 GMT -5
Yes this shit’s fake and it’s been public knowledge since the forties but still there’s gotta be suspension of disbelief. A tiny person can’t suplex someone that’s got more than a hundred pounds on them. I believe that Babydoll can beat the f*** out of Jim Cornette because everybody and their mother could beat up Jim Cornette, that was his role and Doll was bigger than him. But I’ll never buy Candice beating up Brian f***ing Cage. If Candice was taller and bigger then I could believe it. You have to suspend disbelief for the match to be booked. Men and women don't compete against each other in MMA, hell they don't compete against each other in golf (I think!) in a world where 95% of sports are gender segregated there's no way wrestling would allow it if it were 'real'. I may be mistaken but I think golf once an exception for a teenage girl who was a prodigy. They can’t compete in mma because the sport would get banned again. In Brazil they advertised an intergender mma match as part of a campaign against domestic violence but they kept it hidden that it was a stunt until the end and it almost did irreparable damage until they learned that it was just a stunt.
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Post by Venti on Feb 15, 2019 1:06:54 GMT -5
Not a fan. Dudes hitting ladies makes me uncomfortable, even if it's fiction.
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