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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 1, 2019 17:07:23 GMT -5
Lost clean to Lashley Lost clean to Strowman (a few times)
Lost clean to Rollins (a few times)
Lost semi clean to Dean and Finn (Suspension was coming) Lost clean to Lesnar (a few times)
Right we can't pretend Roman didn't do the job somewhat often even. That's actually what led to a ton of the issues with him because he would lose but booking would act like it didn't matter, negating the loss in a sense. I see where Captain and kn are coming from in that regard, but from where I stand that's on not capitalizing on Asuka rather than keeping Becky strong. Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 17:08:45 GMT -5
Right we can't pretend Roman didn't do the job somewhat often even. That's actually what led to a ton of the issues with him because he would lose but booking would act like it didn't matter, negating the loss in a sense. I see where Captain and kn are coming from in that regard, but from where I stand that's on not capitalizing on Asuka rather than keeping Becky strong. Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that Honestly, what I would've done was have Becky come out while Asuka's in the ring on the following SDL and "pass the torch" by congratulating her before departing. Not that it would've mattered if they kept Asuka off TV for weeks anyway, though.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 1, 2019 17:09:38 GMT -5
Right we can't pretend Roman didn't do the job somewhat often even. That's actually what led to a ton of the issues with him because he would lose but booking would act like it didn't matter, negating the loss in a sense. I see where Captain and kn are coming from in that regard, but from where I stand that's on not capitalizing on Asuka rather than keeping Becky strong. Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that I don't think we'd even be having this part of the discussion if booking was treating Asuka strong and sold "she beat The Man clean as a sheet, SD division is stong as hell, look at their champ" but they f***ed that up too so here we are.
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Post by Some Guy on Mar 1, 2019 17:15:01 GMT -5
Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that I don't think we'd even be having this part of the discussion if booking was treating Asuka strong and sold "she beat The Man clean as a sheet, SD division is stong as hell, look at their champ" but they f***ed that up too so here we are. Part of it is having two PPVs between the Rumble and Mania, which is beyond pointless, but leads to half stories to PPVs and half stories to Mania that barely have any reasonable cohesion. It's brutal altogether.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 17:18:05 GMT -5
Are you saying that Roman hasn't lost clean at a ppv? We gotta get something straight, when people talk about how protected Roman is do yall know that he's actually lost matches clean? I think what they're getting at is that while Roman has lost clean before, tapping out is seen as a worse way to lose clean than getting pinned. It's seen as embarrassing, which it shouldn't but that's just the way it gets treated. We're talking about who wins a match and who loses a match, we're not talking about which is more embarrassing because honestly if people want to go that route then I can say "well Reigns was embarrassed way more in the lead to the ppv matches he was in compared to Becky's been in her feuds." I can easily say "in the week to week feuds Reigns actually didn't have the upperhand against the heels compared to Becky in hers in turn which shows how Becky's more overprotected" but we're actually looking at results in this case.
A clean loss is a clean loss at the end of the day.
A lot Let's not forget he went like 6 PPVs without a win after "retiring" Undertaker He was Braun Stowman bitch for months and when he got a title shot at Summerslam in that match between him, Lesnar, Joe and Strowman it was Roman who took the pin from Lesnar
Reigns has lost way more than people give him credit for. It just goes to show that optics do matter. Dude was hated on so much that people actually forgot the losses he accumilated. People are actually forgetting the fact that most of his pre-match encounters he got his ass kicked by the heel until that ppv match.
I didn't say lose, I said tapped out. Roman has never tapped out. John Cena hasn't tapped out since 2004. We're talking about losses here, I'm not talking about just tapping out. Pinfall losses do matter. Right we can't pretend Roman didn't do the job somewhat often even. That's actually what led to a ton of the issues with him because he would lose but booking would act like it didn't matter, negating the loss in a sense. I see where Captain and kn are coming from in that regard, but from where I stand that's on not capitalizing on Asuka rather than keeping Becky strong. Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that At the end of the day Becky moved on from Asuka and went to better things while Asuka's still floundering. It's sad but it is what it is.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 1, 2019 17:18:55 GMT -5
Which is more so the point been making about her loss to Asuka. It was clean (and the right move because she is leaving SD) but it is somewhat negated due to just moving along BUT there is something to be said about creative not helping Asuka after that I don't think we'd even be having this part of the discussion if booking was treating Asuka strong and sold "she beat The Man clean as a sheet, SD division is stong as hell, look at their champ" but they f***ed that up too so here we are. True, tho like with Roman it is a conscious decision to not reflect on that fact tho. You don't want to be building her up as "The Man" but oh yeah she tapped out and "sneaked" her way into the Rumble so here we are. It's almost in a sense like when Lashley beat Roman and the big win is negated because it wasn't a number 1 contender match
The rub is being given but the way you feel about the more "important person" takes more precedence than the actual results of the match
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 1, 2019 17:46:00 GMT -5
A lot Let's not forget he went like 6 PPVs without a win after "retiring" Undertaker He was Braun Stowman bitch for months and when he got a title shot at Summerslam in that match between him, Lesnar, Joe and Strowman it was Roman who took the pin from Lesnar
Reigns has lost way more than people give him credit for. It just goes to show that optics do matter. Dude was hated on so much that people actually forgot the losses he accumilated. People are actually forgetting the fact that most of his pre-match encounters he got his ass kicked by the heel until that ppv match.
If you are liked, you are not as nitpicked as some others will be (See Strowman last year as we discussed)
It's like with Charlotte, the perception is they could lose for a year straight and still be at the top of the card the next day while Becky doesn't have that luxury in some minds
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 1, 2019 17:53:18 GMT -5
Reigns has lost way more than people give him credit for. It just goes to show that optics do matter. Dude was hated on so much that people actually forgot the losses he accumilated. People are actually forgetting the fact that most of his pre-match encounters he got his ass kicked by the heel until that ppv match.
If you are liked, you are not as nitpicked as some others will be (See Strowman last year as we discussed) It's like with Charlotte, the perception is they could lose for a year straight and still be at the top of the card the next day while Becky doesn't have that luxury in some minds
Well that's ridiculous, even if Becky drops down the card for a while she's a made man now. She won't always be the focus, and she shouldn't be, but from here on out she can be in the top spot as the story dictates or needs. That's where Charlotte is. Equal footing full stop, no arguments between the booking of either can be made for one over the other. They've both become "chosen".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 17:59:10 GMT -5
If you are liked, you are not as nitpicked as some others will be (See Strowman last year as we discussed) It's like with Charlotte, the perception is they could lose for a year straight and still be at the top of the card the next day while Becky doesn't have that luxury in some minds
Well that's ridiculous, even if Becky drops down the card for a while she's a made man now. She won't always be the focus, and she shouldn't be, but from here on out she can be in the top spot as the story dictates or needs. That's where Charlotte is. Equal footing full stop, no arguments between the booking of either can be made for one over the other. They've both become "chosen". That's how it should be. Becky's really made now but a good amount of people don't see it. Even after she wins at WM with the fireworks going off behind her I'm not sure if that'll be enough to make Becky in the eyes of many because all it'll take is a loss against someone that's not up to her level or a lower card feud before the comments come out. I mean look at Bryan, people still say that he's not where he needs to be. Charlotte and Bryan are the examples of top superstars who have made it and are chosen but they're not necessarily at the lead spot and yet they still roll with it. Even with that Cass feud I still thought Bryan was cemented. Yeah it was Cass, yeah Bryan decimated Cass every step of the way but hey, some people didn't like it because he was lower on the card. Personally I was fine with that feud because Bryan was back into the swing of things taking it to a big guy. He didn't need a belt, he didn't need to be the lead guy, he just needed to be Bryan and it was good.
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Post by Thunderbolt on Mar 1, 2019 18:07:55 GMT -5
The most important thing here is that Becky used the term "Full Russo" after I used it yesterday. This is proof that she reads this board and is madly in love with me.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 1, 2019 18:09:28 GMT -5
And if they do start pulling back on Becky once Mania has passed then people need to be ready to not act like it's a personal affront to them; Charlotte just being added to the match created such a "Becky is in danger, something something nepotism she's going to win and ruin everything" panic reflex that helps nobody right now. Stuff like her losing to Asuka can't be seen as a sign of the apocalypse. Of course, WWE don't understand moderation in pushes either so watch them do nothing to pull back until Becky is exactly the kind of superbooked monster that she would always come up short against. Is this unreasonable though? Hoping for the best but expecting worse than the dirt worst is a pretty damn rational approach to watching the WWE. It is when you consider the originally planned match was Charlotte/Ronda and the news was always that they were eyeing a triple threat with Becky as a change of plans. If even the slightest adversity or defeat for Becky provokes such over the top panic spells then this is going to create an absolutely miserable atmosphere in the months to come.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 18:35:01 GMT -5
Is this unreasonable though? Hoping for the best but expecting worse than the dirt worst is a pretty damn rational approach to watching the WWE. It is when you consider the originally planned match was Charlotte/Ronda and the news was always that they were eyeing a triple threat with Becky as a change of plans. If even the slightest adversity or defeat for Becky provokes such over the top panic spells then this is going to creates an absolutely miserable atmosphere in the months to come. But they've cultivated that kind of reaction. Nothing in their recent history suggests that they're competent enough to see this through successfully, and while I get that the "sky is falling" reaction to every little thing is obnoxious, you've got a company that has shovelled disappointment on top of disappointment on top of failure for years and years.. I just can't blame people for the super cynicism.
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Post by darbus alan on Mar 1, 2019 19:08:15 GMT -5
When it comes to WWE booking, I think "Hope for the best, but expect the worst" is not only rational, but entirely expected by how godawful WWE booking has been the past several years. When booking defies poor expectations it's almost always the exception to the rule.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Mar 1, 2019 19:12:28 GMT -5
Ultimately, what it boils down to is that Ronda can't take being "the loser" in a scenario, so she's lashing out in increasingly desperate ways. This is a mental weakness going back to her first MMA loss. Which amazes me (or not, because this is wrestling), because this is all a work. People win and lose based upon what the bookers tell them to. But, the idea of being told to do a job, for whatever reason, will break Rousey's psyche, because it means that for the rest of her life, she will have lost a match in WWE, even if it's the only loss in her WWE career. Losing an actual fight, let alone two, showed the fragility of Rousey's mental state, which is understandable, given the fact that she was built up as a world beater, but I'm more astounded that losing in an industry where, with the exception of dealing with people who are not in the right state of mind (see Jeff Hardy at Victory Road 2011), the outcome of your fight is predetermined based upon what people backstage have been planning for some time will yield the same result to your mind. This also is just bad conduct, but because it's Ronda freaking Rousey, there will always be people to defend her and lap up everything she says and does due to the reality that people will always have idol worshipping complexes. I'm astounded that you'd be astounded by your own projection of what RR's mental reaction to this is. And people say worked shoots don't work.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 1, 2019 19:12:31 GMT -5
It is when you consider the originally planned match was Charlotte/Ronda and the news was always that they were eyeing a triple threat with Becky as a change of plans. If even the slightest adversity or defeat for Becky provokes such over the top panic spells then this is going to creates an absolutely miserable atmosphere in the months to come. But they've cultivated that kind of reaction. Nothing in their recent history suggests that they're competent enough to see this through successfully, and while I get that the "sky is falling" reaction to every little thing is obnoxious, you've got a company that has shovelled disappointment on top of disappointment on top of failure for years and years.. I just can't blame people for the super cynicism. Dude a solid 50% of the posts I've made on this board are decrying WWE's creative failings on a narrative level, you're preaching to the choir there. But Becky is made, and if you're taking any moment of weakness or adversity as an affront and go into panic mode it can't be that enjoyable a process. WWE is bad at this, but look at the big picture of what's happened and look at how strong a push Becky's actually received; this isn't Rusev getting added to the US title match at Mania just so he could take a pin. This is the real shit, and it's frustrating to a lot of people that some people aren't seeing just how strong and made Becky is. Either you can have faith and believe it's going to work out with her, or you can write off the whole thing and assume she's going nowhere, but a lot of people are trying to do both and it just doesn't add up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 19:13:40 GMT -5
If there’s one thing that I’ve learned over the years it’s that if something gets hot the WWE will find a way to make it lame. It usually starts with McMahon involvement and spirals down from there.
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Post by darbus alan on Mar 1, 2019 19:16:35 GMT -5
Speaking of being protected, has Rousey even taken a pin or submission during her entire WWE tenure?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 19:21:24 GMT -5
But they've cultivated that kind of reaction. Nothing in their recent history suggests that they're competent enough to see this through successfully, and while I get that the "sky is falling" reaction to every little thing is obnoxious, you've got a company that has shovelled disappointment on top of disappointment on top of failure for years and years.. I just can't blame people for the super cynicism. Dude a solid 50% of the posts I've made on this board are decrying WWE's creative failings on a narrative level, you're preaching to the choir there. But Becky is made, and if you're taking any moment of weakness or adversity as an affront and go into panic mode it can't be that enjoyable a process. WWE is bad at this, but look at the big picture of what's happened and look at how strong a push Becky's actually received; this isn't Rusev getting added to the US title match at Mania just so he could take a pin. This is the real shit, and it's frustrating to a lot of people that some people aren't seeing just how strong and made Becky is. Either you can have faith and believe it's going to work out with her, or you can write off the whole thing and assume she's going nowhere, but a lot of people are trying to do both and it just doesn't add up. Haa. I really am preaching to the choir. I suppose my "counterpoint" is.. Braun Strowman. I'm just jaded man. The sky might not fall *today*, but recent history suggest that it will. Doesn't take long to go from made to goober.
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Post by bearned on Mar 1, 2019 19:24:16 GMT -5
I like this feud but tbh I don’t know that they can trust Ronda not to take it too far. At some point she is legit going to snap.
Then again maybe I’m just being worked into a shoot (brother!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 19:29:34 GMT -5
I like this feud but tbh I don’t know that they can trust Ronda not to take it too far. At some point she is legit going to snap. Then again maybe I’m just being worked into a shoot (brother!) Goodnight RONDAMANIACS and jabronie marks without a life that don't know it a work when you work a work and you work yourself into a shoot, marks.
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