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Post by KofiMania on Mar 1, 2019 22:51:13 GMT -5
WWE/Ronda are working the hardcore fans. It’s reported Heyman is the one putting together a lot of Ronda’s segments and her Twitter responses. He seems to be into the breaking of the 4th wall lately, going by the Lesnar story arc from last year. This is all so that Ronda is more of a heel in front of the Mania crowd, which is a group more likely to be following this Twitter war and getting upset by it. If true that’s pretty dumb, because she was definitely going to get booed right the hell out of there anyways. Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 1, 2019 22:53:17 GMT -5
If true that’s pretty dumb, because she was definitely going to get booed right the hell out of there anyways. Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working. Ehh not a one to one situation
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 1, 2019 23:04:32 GMT -5
If true that’s pretty dumb, because she was definitely going to get booed right the hell out of there anyways. Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working. But there's a problem with this logic here jsut like it is anywhere we get "Nah it's a shoot and if you think they're a dick, it's working". Is this selling the show? Is this actually increasing anyone's interest in seeing the match and in watching to watch Ronda get beaten? I don't think it is. I think it's turning people off of the story and making them impatiently want a stop to the banter that should be an integral part of this Mania match's build. I think it's hurting peoples' interest and making them not so hot and passionate on seeing it in the main event because this is quickly becoming an embarrassment. Worked shoots only work when they actually create active interest in what's happening. "The heel is using it to get booed" is bad because it represents an emphasis on nonsense over actually just telling a good story. This match is not any better off for Ronda explicitly calling everything about the on-screen story fake, and while you can maybe argue it isn't going to make anyone tune out and skip Mania, it is at best a neutral situation and more likely has had a negative impact on peoples' interest in this. That's the opposite of working, and it's what the business has struggled with too much, thinknig any reaction is success.
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Mar 1, 2019 23:05:11 GMT -5
If true that’s pretty dumb, because she was definitely going to get booed right the hell out of there anyways. Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working. Given the talk has been about how badly this feud is going and how uninterested people now are in it, clearly, Heyman is failing badly at his job. Just because people still talk about David Arquette winning the WCW, that doesn't mean it was a good decision.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 23:41:30 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that Becky spent years making everyone else look good because she's had a few hot months. Yeah, she's getting a rocket push right now but people are talking like she's never done anything for anyone. She did her time helping others and making them look great and what did it get her? A losing streak and relative obscurity as the 3rd face.
I get that she's Billy Gunned Ronda more than once on Twitter but do you really think they went to the rock at the height of his run while he was dunking on everyone and said, make sure you say something nice about the person after you talk about sticking your foot in their ass? I get that some are tired of Becky owning everyone but I don't really consider it her fault that she's stepped up her game and they havent. Asuka played it smart and showed how to deflect it. I just have a hard time imagining people complaining in the midst of stone cold's rise that he was being pushed too hard, was kicking too much ass or was owning people too much on the mic. Becky's rise isn't done yet and she spent years toiling as everyone's sidekick or punching bag so I don't begrudge her kicking so much ass these past few months. Itll make it that much more interesting when someone takes her down (and they don't ignore it like with asuka). I know this sounds like I'm super obsessed with her and I will admit I'm a big fan. I also know she isn't perfect. I just think a lit is being laid unjustly at Becky's feet. Nah, this isn't true.
First of all, comparing this to the Attitude Era makes no sense. You know that we're 2 decades separated and even so comparing Becky/Ronda to Rock/Billy Gunn makes no sense either, you know this isn't that. We're talking about Becky against Ronda Rousey. We're not talking about Becky against Billy Kaye.
Just because someone's spent time putting others over in the past doesn't mean that gives them the right to run roughshod over everyone else. There's a way to get over on your opponents and also make them look great at the same time and that's something the greatest workers have done. That's what makes a true champion. HBK for example, for all the things he's done he's great in not only making his opponent get over but also making himself look great at it. In no way shape of form should someone be allowed to constantly embarrass their opponents day in and day out making the feud worse unless it's a feud where they're trying to get sympathy for the one being abused. Becky constantly doing this to Ronda and others isn't helping anyone besides her out and we've already got some people saying they wish this entire feud would change and/or they wish Becky would be shut up. That's not how we're supposed to feel. Yeah extreme Becky fans love it because she's making people look bad and it makes her look good but for the entire encompassing story it's not doing a thing besides benefiting her. Just be real about it, certain people just want to see Becky do great things regardless of how it affects others like Ronda and Charlotte. It doesn't matter if Ronda gets embarrassed because it's funny to people. It doesn't matter how the story looks because Becky's going to win in the end. This just isn't how it needs to be done and if that's the only way Becky can do things then she's gotten worse because yeah, she can make herself look good but she's lost the ability to make her opponent look good.
Becky for example, when she was putting over others like Alexa she not only made herself be a fiery underdog but she made Alexa an extremely evil heel. Believe it or not, she's been able to balance those 2 sides very well up until that heel turn and since then it's as if she's forgotten how she used to be in the past. It's possible to do both. Ask AJ Styles, ask Rollins, ask Reigns, many people are capable of doing this. Still it's not lost tho.
Interestingly enough...the only person Becky's actually been able to put over while also making herself look good in all areas is...Charlotte Flair. Charlotte's been able to contend on social media, in the ring, during their Last Woman Standing match Charlotte barely lost and she looked great. Even in this story Charlotte's inclusion has given people a fear that Charlotte actually might win given who Charlotte is. Charlotte's been the Yang to Becky's Yin which is why it works for her and that's double for the fact that they're best friends. It makes sense. For others though? Nah.
At the end of the day, no. That "nah, Becky can do what she wants because she's helped people out for so long and now it's her turn to run over people" thing is bad booking. Nobody should be running over anybody, everyone deserves to be elevated. There's a way to make yourself look good and make your opponent look good which benefits everyone. If that's the attitude then it says a lot about her character given a great amount of others didn't have to result to that.
I will add a couple more things now that I'm not on my phone. Becky is going up against Ronda Rousey who currently has zero singles losses. Zero since she debuted a year ago. She has almost no tag losses and I think the ones she did lose it was always Natalya taking the pin. It makes sense that you want someone at the top of their game with few losses to compare to her, which is what you have in Becky.
I've also seen a lot of well she lost to Asuka but it doesn't count because they did nothing with it. I will say that is on the WWE. Asuka beat the hottest star in the promotion clean and they took her off tv for three weeks and then had her job to Mandy. That booking is just insane. Hell, they could have had Becky come out, admit Asuka beat her, insist that it won't happen the next time they meet and then they go their separate ways. Becky would lose nothing and Asuka wouldn't have freezers complaining because she's so cold. Answer this for me.
Becky is embarrassing Ronda constantly day in and day out on social media. Becky's embarrassing Ronda in in-ring promos. Ronda hasn't lost any match yet and still in those matches she's selling for her opponents, making her opponents look good and she's making it seem as though she's not only beating her opponents but surviving those matches and mind you this is to weaker stars not on Becky's protected level. While Becky did lose to Asuka, she won a Rumble the same night. Becky has made Ronda look foolish in these segments and in any interaction with Ronda where they physically touch Becky's gotten the better of Ronda each and every time. Also factor into the fact that most of us know that Ronda's leaving after WM and/or losing, even without that, take out that last part, let's skip it.
Why do I want to see Becky against Ronda? Why would I want to physically watch this?
If all you have is "well Ronda hasn't lost yet so you might wanna see-" then there's realistically no reason that I think Ronda's going to win given everything we've seen goes against that and it's just not interesting to me. She doesn't have momentum. Ronda has nothing going into this feud other than the fact that she hasn't lost yet. There's no back and forth exchanges that are working either, Becky has the crowd, you're only giving Ronda her undefeated streak to use as a crutch when other wrestlers have had their undefeated streaks, the fact they ended up on top on some actual shows, promos against said wrestlers, Ronda doesn't have that. Even the Reigns and Lesnar stuff had more back and forth that was more competitive than this is. This? It's a one-sided feud right now. Ronda as an overall talent is just not on Becky's level. It doesn't matter if Ronda's undefeated, she's sucking right now. It might be cool for you because Becky's going to beat Ronda who's undefeated but as an overall story? Nah. Ronda's entire "character" is broken in half and Becky's basically beating a one-armed woman right now. If that's what we gotta go see just to see Becky/Ronda then thank God Charlotte's thrown in here because she's actually going to balance this out.
That's just not a good story.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 23:44:54 GMT -5
Ronda and Heyman came together to create that Millennial Man shit.
Dawg, there's no way that they came up with something so damn lame made to make Ronda look stupid. She said something weeks later that she realized she and Becky were the same age. We can't really be giving this a pass. A bad product is a bad product at the end of the day. Heyman might be dope on the mic but this is the same dude who tried his best to put over Curtis Axel and the shit flopped like a limp penis. This dude has duds lol.
And Ronda's promos, retorts, Ronda is a dud in everything outside of actually fighting people. We gotta call it as we see it.
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Post by darbus alan on Mar 2, 2019 0:07:28 GMT -5
If Heyman wants to be Ronda's mouthpiece, he should be Ronda's mouthpiece. If he's really working with her, he's failing miserably at it.
Then again his shtick as Brock Lesnar's representative has been the same exact gimmick for years on end and it's gotten stale beyond stale. Maybe Heyman should call it a career.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 2, 2019 0:20:04 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that Becky spent years making everyone else look good because she's had a few hot months. Yeah, she's getting a rocket push right now but people are talking like she's never done anything for anyone. She did her time helping others and making them look great and what did it get her? A losing streak and relative obscurity as the 3rd face.
I get that she's Billy Gunned Ronda more than once on Twitter but do you really think they went to the rock at the height of his run while he was dunking on everyone and said, make sure you say something nice about the person after you talk about sticking your foot in their ass? I get that some are tired of Becky owning everyone but I don't really consider it her fault that she's stepped up her game and they havent. Asuka played it smart and showed how to deflect it. I just have a hard time imagining people complaining in the midst of stone cold's rise that he was being pushed too hard, was kicking too much ass or was owning people too much on the mic. Becky's rise isn't done yet and she spent years toiling as everyone's sidekick or punching bag so I don't begrudge her kicking so much ass these past few months. Itll make it that much more interesting when someone takes her down (and they don't ignore it like with asuka). I know this sounds like I'm super obsessed with her and I will admit I'm a big fan. I also know she isn't perfect. I just think a lit is being laid unjustly at Becky's feet. Nah, this isn't true.
First of all, comparing this to the Attitude Era makes no sense. You know that we're 2 decades separated and even so comparing Becky/Ronda to Rock/Billy Gunn makes no sense either, you know this isn't that. We're talking about Becky against Ronda Rousey. We're not talking about Becky against Billy Kaye.
Just because someone's spent time putting others over in the past doesn't mean that gives them the right to run roughshod over everyone else. There's a way to get over on your opponents and also make them look great at the same time and that's something the greatest workers have done. That's what makes a true champion. HBK for example, for all the things he's done he's great in not only making his opponent get over but also making himself look great at it. In no way shape of form should someone be allowed to constantly embarrass their opponents day in and day out making the feud worse unless it's a feud where they're trying to get sympathy for the one being abused. Becky constantly doing this to Ronda and others isn't helping anyone besides her out and we've already got some people saying they wish this entire feud would change and/or they wish Becky would be shut up. That's not how we're supposed to feel. Yeah extreme Becky fans love it because she's making people look bad and it makes her look good but for the entire encompassing story it's not doing a thing besides benefiting her. Just be real about it, certain people just want to see Becky do great things regardless of how it affects others like Ronda and Charlotte. It doesn't matter if Ronda gets embarrassed because it's funny to people. It doesn't matter how the story looks because Becky's going to win in the end. This just isn't how it needs to be done and if that's the only way Becky can do things then she's gotten worse because yeah, she can make herself look good but she's lost the ability to make her opponent look good.
Becky for example, when she was putting over others like Alexa she not only made herself be a fiery underdog but she made Alexa an extremely evil heel. Believe it or not, she's been able to balance those 2 sides very well up until that heel turn and since then it's as if she's forgotten how she used to be in the past. It's possible to do both. Ask AJ Styles, ask Rollins, ask Reigns, many people are capable of doing this. Still it's not lost tho.
Interestingly enough...the only person Becky's actually been able to put over while also making herself look good in all areas is...Charlotte Flair. Charlotte's been able to contend on social media, in the ring, during their Last Woman Standing match Charlotte barely lost and she looked great. Even in this story Charlotte's inclusion has given people a fear that Charlotte actually might win given who Charlotte is. Charlotte's been the Yang to Becky's Yin which is why it works for her and that's double for the fact that they're best friends. It makes sense. For others though? Nah.
At the end of the day, no. That "nah, Becky can do what she wants because she's helped people out for so long and now it's her turn to run over people" thing is bad booking. Nobody should be running over anybody, everyone deserves to be elevated. There's a way to make yourself look good and make your opponent look good which benefits everyone. If that's the attitude then it says a lot about her character given a great amount of others didn't have to result to that.
I will add a couple more things now that I'm not on my phone. Becky is going up against Ronda Rousey who currently has zero singles losses. Zero since she debuted a year ago. She has almost no tag losses and I think the ones she did lose it was always Natalya taking the pin. It makes sense that you want someone at the top of their game with few losses to compare to her, which is what you have in Becky.
I've also seen a lot of well she lost to Asuka but it doesn't count because they did nothing with it. I will say that is on the WWE. Asuka beat the hottest star in the promotion clean and they took her off tv for three weeks and then had her job to Mandy. That booking is just insane. Hell, they could have had Becky come out, admit Asuka beat her, insist that it won't happen the next time they meet and then they go their separate ways. Becky would lose nothing and Asuka wouldn't have freezers complaining because she's so cold. Answer this for me.
Becky is embarrassing Ronda constantly day in and day out on social media. Becky's embarrassing Ronda in in-ring promos. Ronda hasn't lost any match yet and still in those matches she's selling for her opponents, making her opponents look good and she's making it seem as though she's not only beating her opponents but surviving those matches and mind you this is to weaker stars not on Becky's protected level. While Becky did lose to Asuka, she won a Rumble the same night. Becky has made Ronda look foolish in these segments and in any interaction with Ronda where they physically touch Becky's gotten the better of Ronda each and every time. Also factor into the fact that most of us know that Ronda's leaving after WM and/or losing, even without that, take out that last part, let's skip it.
Why do I want to see Becky against Ronda? Why would I want to physically watch this?
If all you have is "well Ronda hasn't lost yet so you might wanna see-" then there's realistically no reason that I think Ronda's going to win given everything we've seen goes against that and it's just not interesting to me. She doesn't have momentum. Ronda has nothing going into this feud other than the fact that she hasn't lost yet. There's no back and forth exchanges that are working either, Becky has the crowd, you're only giving Ronda her undefeated streak to use as a crutch when other wrestlers have had their undefeated streaks, the fact they ended up on top on some actual shows, promos against said wrestlers, Ronda doesn't have that. Even the Reigns and Lesnar stuff had more back and forth that was more competitive than this is. This? It's a one-sided feud right now. Ronda as an overall talent is just not on Becky's level. It doesn't matter if Ronda's undefeated, she's sucking right now. It might be cool for you because Becky's going to beat Ronda who's undefeated but as an overall story? Nah. Ronda's entire "character" is broken in half and Becky's basically beating a one-armed woman right now. If that's what we gotta go see just to see Becky/Ronda then thank God Charlotte's thrown in here because she's actually going to balance this out.
That's just not a good story.
In the end, I blame Ronda for this, not really Becky. Ronda could simply not respond, she could simply play more to her character of letting the talk happen in the ring, and she went the complete opposite way and absolutely has made herself look awful. Becky's not unbeatable on social media, Ronda just has no clue how to deal with it. And if HEYMAN is involved and actually "helping" her and this is the result? Then Heyman needs to retire, because he has hurt Ronda's wrestling career way more than helped it, in a near disrepair sense at this point, it's very ugly. And it has helped no one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 0:38:30 GMT -5
In the end, I blame Ronda for this, not really Becky. Ronda could simply not respond, she could simply play more to her character of letting the talk happen in the ring, and she went the complete opposite way and absolutely has made herself look awful. Becky's not unbeatable on social media, Ronda just has no clue how to deal with it. And if HEYMAN is involved and actually "helping" her and this is the result? Then Heyman needs to retire, because he has hurt Ronda's wrestling career way more than helped it, in a near disrepair sense at this point, it's very ugly. And it has helped no one. You can do what you want. I'm putting most of the blame on Ronda but I'm giving some of the blame to Becky too. I know she's smarter than this. If she sees Ronda's screwing up and she keeps attacking her then at that point it's like she's not thinking "ok how I can make Ronda not look like trash, turn this around and in turn it'll make me look better" but more of "ok how can I make Ronda look worse and me look better" and that's not what she should be doing to help the feud. Charlotte's someone who's been shown to hype the other women up on social media to make their upcoming matches/feuds better. She was just hyping up a match she had with Asuka in which Asuka beat her even retweeting a post that had Asuka holding the title after winning. She was also hyping up Ruby's match with Ronda, same with hyping Eva Marie. Along the way she's kept her entire queen persona but it just made those around her look better overall. That's how you do it and that's how you can be a top star and elevate everyone you work with work. Becky's just not there yet or she's just not doing it because she's too focused on herself.
Heyman's been helping Ronda but part of me wonders if she's just not doing what he says. I don't know but judging her vlog she said she's going to "go over some lines with Heyman" but it doesn't say who wrote them.
This vlog was from November and you can see Ronda drained. I flipped through a few of these and one thing's for sure: she hates this damn schedule lmao.
She's not coming back after WM. She can't do it.
And another thing, Ronda always knows what match she has way before she enters the building. Unlike a lot of others who's schedules can change on the fly most of hers seems to be set in stone. You know why.
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Post by Thunderbolt on Mar 2, 2019 1:03:13 GMT -5
If true that’s pretty dumb, because she was definitely going to get booed right the hell out of there anyways. Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working. Yes, in contrast to Beth Phoenix, this thread does not lack passion.
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schma
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Post by schma on Mar 2, 2019 1:08:18 GMT -5
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that Becky spent years making everyone else look good because she's had a few hot months. Yeah, she's getting a rocket push right now but people are talking like she's never done anything for anyone. She did her time helping others and making them look great and what did it get her? A losing streak and relative obscurity as the 3rd face.
I get that she's Billy Gunned Ronda more than once on Twitter but do you really think they went to the rock at the height of his run while he was dunking on everyone and said, make sure you say something nice about the person after you talk about sticking your foot in their ass? I get that some are tired of Becky owning everyone but I don't really consider it her fault that she's stepped up her game and they havent. Asuka played it smart and showed how to deflect it. I just have a hard time imagining people complaining in the midst of stone cold's rise that he was being pushed too hard, was kicking too much ass or was owning people too much on the mic. Becky's rise isn't done yet and she spent years toiling as everyone's sidekick or punching bag so I don't begrudge her kicking so much ass these past few months. Itll make it that much more interesting when someone takes her down (and they don't ignore it like with asuka). I know this sounds like I'm super obsessed with her and I will admit I'm a big fan. I also know she isn't perfect. I just think a lit is being laid unjustly at Becky's feet. Nah, this isn't true.
First of all, comparing this to the Attitude Era makes no sense. You know that we're 2 decades separated and even so comparing Becky/Ronda to Rock/Billy Gunn makes no sense either, you know this isn't that. We're talking about Becky against Ronda Rousey. We're not talking about Becky against Billy Kaye.
Just because someone's spent time putting others over in the past doesn't mean that gives them the right to run roughshod over everyone else. There's a way to get over on your opponents and also make them look great at the same time and that's something the greatest workers have done. That's what makes a true champion. HBK for example, for all the things he's done he's great in not only making his opponent get over but also making himself look great at it. In no way shape of form should someone be allowed to constantly embarrass their opponents day in and day out making the feud worse unless it's a feud where they're trying to get sympathy for the one being abused. Becky constantly doing this to Ronda and others isn't helping anyone besides her out and we've already got some people saying they wish this entire feud would change and/or they wish Becky would be shut up. That's not how we're supposed to feel. Yeah extreme Becky fans love it because she's making people look bad and it makes her look good but for the entire encompassing story it's not doing a thing besides benefiting her. Just be real about it, certain people just want to see Becky do great things regardless of how it affects others like Ronda and Charlotte. It doesn't matter if Ronda gets embarrassed because it's funny to people. It doesn't matter how the story looks because Becky's going to win in the end. This just isn't how it needs to be done and if that's the only way Becky can do things then she's gotten worse because yeah, she can make herself look good but she's lost the ability to make her opponent look good.
Becky for example, when she was putting over others like Alexa she not only made herself be a fiery underdog but she made Alexa an extremely evil heel. Believe it or not, she's been able to balance those 2 sides very well up until that heel turn and since then it's as if she's forgotten how she used to be in the past. It's possible to do both. Ask AJ Styles, ask Rollins, ask Reigns, many people are capable of doing this. Still it's not lost tho.
Interestingly enough...the only person Becky's actually been able to put over while also making herself look good in all areas is...Charlotte Flair. Charlotte's been able to contend on social media, in the ring, during their Last Woman Standing match Charlotte barely lost and she looked great. Even in this story Charlotte's inclusion has given people a fear that Charlotte actually might win given who Charlotte is. Charlotte's been the Yang to Becky's Yin which is why it works for her and that's double for the fact that they're best friends. It makes sense. For others though? Nah.
At the end of the day, no. That "nah, Becky can do what she wants because she's helped people out for so long and now it's her turn to run over people" thing is bad booking. Nobody should be running over anybody, everyone deserves to be elevated. There's a way to make yourself look good and make your opponent look good which benefits everyone. If that's the attitude then it says a lot about her character given a great amount of others didn't have to result to that.
I will add a couple more things now that I'm not on my phone. Becky is going up against Ronda Rousey who currently has zero singles losses. Zero since she debuted a year ago. She has almost no tag losses and I think the ones she did lose it was always Natalya taking the pin. It makes sense that you want someone at the top of their game with few losses to compare to her, which is what you have in Becky.
I've also seen a lot of well she lost to Asuka but it doesn't count because they did nothing with it. I will say that is on the WWE. Asuka beat the hottest star in the promotion clean and they took her off tv for three weeks and then had her job to Mandy. That booking is just insane. Hell, they could have had Becky come out, admit Asuka beat her, insist that it won't happen the next time they meet and then they go their separate ways. Becky would lose nothing and Asuka wouldn't have freezers complaining because she's so cold. Answer this for me.
Becky is embarrassing Ronda constantly day in and day out on social media. Becky's embarrassing Ronda in in-ring promos. Ronda hasn't lost any match yet and still in those matches she's selling for her opponents, making her opponents look good and she's making it seem as though she's not only beating her opponents but surviving those matches and mind you this is to weaker stars not on Becky's protected level. While Becky did lose to Asuka, she won a Rumble the same night. Becky has made Ronda look foolish in these segments and in any interaction with Ronda where they physically touch Becky's gotten the better of Ronda each and every time. Also factor into the fact that most of us know that Ronda's leaving after WM and/or losing, even without that, take out that last part, let's skip it.
Why do I want to see Becky against Ronda? Why would I want to physically watch this?
If all you have is "well Ronda hasn't lost yet so you might wanna see-" then there's realistically no reason that I think Ronda's going to win given everything we've seen goes against that and it's just not interesting to me. She doesn't have momentum. Ronda has nothing going into this feud other than the fact that she hasn't lost yet. There's no back and forth exchanges that are working either, Becky has the crowd, you're only giving Ronda her undefeated streak to use as a crutch when other wrestlers have had their undefeated streaks, the fact they ended up on top on some actual shows, promos against said wrestlers, Ronda doesn't have that. Even the Reigns and Lesnar stuff had more back and forth that was more competitive than this is. This? It's a one-sided feud right now. Ronda as an overall talent is just not on Becky's level. It doesn't matter if Ronda's undefeated, she's sucking right now. It might be cool for you because Becky's going to beat Ronda who's undefeated but as an overall story? Nah. Ronda's entire "character" is broken in half and Becky's basically beating a one-armed woman right now. If that's what we gotta go see just to see Becky/Ronda then thank God Charlotte's thrown in here because she's actually going to balance this out.
That's just not a good story.
I used the attitude era examples because they come to mind most readily. The thing is there has long been verbal sparring on the mic and I am all for people helping elevate each other, it just seems like people are calling Becky selfish and terrible because she hasn't wrestled 20 minute barely won matches against everyone on the roster in the last month (hyperbole I know). That's what I was reacting to. This woman has put others over, she has put on fantastic matches even in the last seven months. Is she getting the lion's share of the reward? Absolutely but that makes sense given how much she's elevated everything she does. You mention that everyone deserves to be elevated and in a perfect world that'll happen. However, that is not only on Becky. She can only do so much. A lot of that will be on how the people she goes up against are presented.
This story has been going down the tubes since the McMahons got involved. It's clear they don't entirely understand what got Becky over. They learned the wrong lessons when she was constantly beating down Charlotte shortly after Summerslam and the crowd ate it up. The crowd saw it as retribution, righteous fury and at the time Charlotte was still above Becky in the pecking order. Doing it now with equals and with the story they've been telling it's not nearly as good. At the same time, they've had months to prepare for this. They've had months to figure out how to put Ronda up against Becky who has been on fire on the mic and not have her look like a fool. Even Charlotte right now feels like she's kind of in a vacuum doing her own thing. She's doing some excellent character work but none of it feels like it really matters to this match partly because they've tried to turn Becky into a silent badass and have Ronda give long promos which is backwards.
I can see how some feel that at a certain point, Becky should have stopped with the twitter pokes. It was clear Ronda was not able to fend for herself. At the same time, if the office was going to okay twitter, surely at least someone must have known what Becky's been up to all these months.
This feud should have been fire and it's all but coals now, however I don't think Becky deserves as much blame as she's getting. A simple one on one, find out who's the best feud has turned into a seven person feud involving every active McMahon. It's a mess.
For the record I hate that the feud has gone this way. I was pumped for it and now I'm lukewarm. I want Ronda looking like a beast, I want her making us wonder if maybe Becky won't make it after all. They need to play to Ronda's strengths and they need to do it fast. I am all for her giving Becky a beating she'll never forget if that's what it takes to bring this thing back to life.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 2, 2019 1:19:21 GMT -5
Going by the length and passion of this thread, it’s definitely working. But there's a problem with this logic here jsut like it is anywhere we get "Nah it's a shoot and if you think they're a dick, it's working". Is this selling the show? Is this actually increasing anyone's interest in seeing the match and in watching to watch Ronda get beaten? I don't think it is. I think it's turning people off of the story and making them impatiently want a stop to the banter that should be an integral part of this Mania match's build. I think it's hurting peoples' interest and making them not so hot and passionate on seeing it in the main event because this is quickly becoming an embarrassment. Worked shoots only work when they actually create active interest in what's happening. "The heel is using it to get booed" is bad because it represents an emphasis on nonsense over actually just telling a good story. This match is not any better off for Ronda explicitly calling everything about the on-screen story fake, and while you can maybe argue it isn't going to make anyone tune out and skip Mania, it is at best a neutral situation and more likely has had a negative impact on peoples' interest in this. That's the opposite of working, and it's what the business has struggled with too much, thinknig any reaction is success. Working as in it will lead to more booing for Ronda at WrestleMania which seems to clearly be the end game with all of this. This is the type of banter that will get the WrestleMania crowd completely against Ronda. And my original point was just that this is clearly the intention of Heyman/ Ronda / WWE. So many people in here are blaming Ronda for cracking and not being able to handle boos, etc. when I think they’re way off.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:24:08 GMT -5
I used the attitude era examples because they come to mind most readily. The thing is there has long been verbal sparring on the mic and I am all for people helping elevate each other, it just seems like people are calling Becky selfish and terrible because she hasn't wrestled 20 minute barely won matches against everyone on the roster in the last month (hyperbole I know). That's what I was reacting to. This woman has put others over, she has put on fantastic matches even in the last seven months. Is she getting the lion's share of the reward? Absolutely but that makes sense given how much she's elevated everything she does. You mention that everyone deserves to be elevated and in a perfect world that'll happen. However, that is not only on Becky. She can only do so much. A lot of that will be on how the people she goes up against are presented.
This story has been going down the tubes since the McMahons got involved. It's clear they don't entirely understand what got Becky over. They learned the wrong lessons when she was constantly beating down Charlotte shortly after Summerslam and the crowd ate it up. The crowd saw it as retribution, righteous fury and at the time Charlotte was still above Becky in the pecking order. Doing it now with equals and with the story they've been telling it's not nearly as good. At the same time, they've had months to prepare for this. They've had months to figure out how to put Ronda up against Becky who has been on fire on the mic and not have her look like a fool. Even Charlotte right now feels like she's kind of in a vacuum doing her own thing. She's doing some excellent character work but none of it feels like it really matters to this match partly because they've tried to turn Becky into a silent badass and have Ronda give long promos which is backwards. I can see how some feel that at a certain point, Becky should have stopped with the twitter pokes. It was clear Ronda was not able to fend for herself. At the same time, if the office was going to okay twitter, surely at least someone must have known what Becky's been up to all these months. This feud should have been fire and it's all but coals now, however I don't think Becky deserves as much blame as she's getting. A simple one on one, find out who's the best feud has turned into a seven person feud involving every active McMahon. It's a mess.
For the record I hate that the feud has gone this way. I was pumped for it and now I'm lukewarm. I want Ronda looking like a beast, I want her making us wonder if maybe Becky won't make it after all. They need to play to Ronda's strengths and they need to do it fast. I am all for her giving Becky a beating she'll never forget if that's what it takes to bring this thing back to life.
I didn't say it's only on Becky. She's a piece of it exactly like how the other superstars in this feud, those backstage working on this and well, time in general, it's all part of it. No one is solely blaming Becky here but I'm just not going to say "nah she's good, she's completely fine, she gets zero blame" because she's just not helping at times when she actively could be helping. I don't see her doing it when I see Charlotte helping other feuds not even associated with her. We all know Ronda's the biggest issue given she can't keep up and she's so prideful she's not trying to change things or ask for help but at the same time that's just one part of the puzzle. I'm sure if the office said "hey Ronda, you need to tap out" she'd be like "it's my Twitter, I can keep up watch" adn then Shane rolls his eyes as Ronda keeps on tweeting. Everyone does need to be elevated. Yeah, it's not a perfect world but at the same time when you know you have options and you have ability you do what you can to make the best out of what you're given.
If there's one thing we all know it's that the office is terrible with long-term planning. If something happens by accident or if something happens organically and the company just lucks into it (Kofi's rise) then it'll be dope but when it comes to an angle that extends this long the company tends to just get loss in what they want to do. Edge said something great on last week's podcast with Christian where he said that some of the best stories happen without being told or planned, just organically. Sometimes you don't need massive promos to get the job done. Sometimes you don't need the social media fights. All you just need is a great story and that's one reason why Kofi's story works so well. They didn't put much thought into it and as of a few weeks ago they didn't know who Bryan was truly facing at WM but it all worked out when it did.
This entire women's WM35 main event thing is just another example of when too much planning fails and in turn there's way too many cogs, way too many variables, it's wild.
What I think they'll do is have Charlotte go out there Monday, try to grab the title and then Charlotte will (again) get her ass beat by one or both of them and then that'll be it. Charlotte's going to become the conduit to get things right on track because these other two aren't focused on what matters and that'll at least put the focus on the triple threat and it'll allow Charlotte to mix it up with Becky on social media to save Ronda. Ronda might say some stuff to Charlotte and Charlotte won't respond because well, Ronda needs help.
Either way, this thing's just a huge mess. Nobody wanted this huge mess but that's how this company works when they plan too much.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:24:59 GMT -5
Working as in it will lead to more booing for Ronda at WrestleMania which seems to clearly be the end game with all of this. This is the type of banter that will get the WrestleMania crowd completely against Ronda. And my original point was just that this is clearly the intention of Heyman/ Ronda / WWE. So many people in here are blaming Ronda for cracking and not being able to handle boos, etc. when I think they’re way off. Do you know Ronda Rousey's history?
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 2, 2019 1:26:42 GMT -5
Working as in it will lead to more booing for Ronda at WrestleMania which seems to clearly be the end game with all of this. This is the type of banter that will get the WrestleMania crowd completely against Ronda. And my original point was just that this is clearly the intention of Heyman/ Ronda / WWE. So many people in here are blaming Ronda for cracking and not being able to handle boos, etc. when I think they’re way off. Do you know Ronda Rousey's history? Absolutely I do. In a legitimate sport. And a history which she is self-aware of and which Heyman is extremely aware of. If you don’t think they know that and are playing those cards here, I think you’re missing the obvious. It’s just another example of WWE doing the weird 4th wall-breaking/ blur the lines of kayfabe and reality to “get” the smart fans thing.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 2, 2019 1:30:10 GMT -5
My God Ronda is bad at this. She actually pulled the Becky jig dancing in her first match card from 5 years ago She's grasping at straws right now. What's next? Posting Becky botching? Posting a 19 year old Becky doing that lingerie shoot? Is Ronda trying to get booed? Poor Charlotte no one even cares that she's in the match anymore. It's all Ronda vs Becky now I mean,most didnt care about Charlotte being in the match to start with she is a gigantic third wheel
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:31:38 GMT -5
Do you know Ronda Rousey's history? Absolutely I do. In a legitimate sport. And a history which she is self-aware of and which Heyman is extremely aware of. If you don’t think they know that and are playing those cards here, I think you’re missing the obvious. WON reported that after Ronda was booed at Survivor Series, nobody of importance backstage cared about her being booed as they don't care if she's booed, they don't care if she's cheered, they just want loud fans. This is what Reigns and Cena said all the time when they were booed and now it's on Ronda. With that said, why do you think they're playing to the boos now?
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 2, 2019 1:36:12 GMT -5
Absolutely I do. In a legitimate sport. And a history which she is self-aware of and which Heyman is extremely aware of. If you don’t think they know that and are playing those cards here, I think you’re missing the obvious. WON reported that after Ronda was booed at Survivor Series, nobody of importance backstage cared about her being booed as they don't care if she's booed, they don't care if she's cheered, they just want loud fans. This is what Reigns and Cena said all the time when they were booed and now it's on Ronda. With that said, why do you think they're playing to the boos now? Because they want Becky to be the 100% hero of the match and in their minds it keeps heat on the match to give it that kayfabe breaking feeling. Same thing they tried to do with Lesnar last year except Reigns didn’t have support like Becky does. If the WON report is true, we’re also many months removed from that and it is looking more likely than Ronda is leaving and Becky is being pushed to the moon, things which weren’t 100% apparent in November. And I would take WON reports such as that with a grain of salt. A lot of the wishy washy news seems like just speculation in the newsletter.
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schma
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Post by schma on Mar 2, 2019 1:52:38 GMT -5
I used the attitude era examples because they come to mind most readily. The thing is there has long been verbal sparring on the mic and I am all for people helping elevate each other, it just seems like people are calling Becky selfish and terrible because she hasn't wrestled 20 minute barely won matches against everyone on the roster in the last month (hyperbole I know). That's what I was reacting to. This woman has put others over, she has put on fantastic matches even in the last seven months. Is she getting the lion's share of the reward? Absolutely but that makes sense given how much she's elevated everything she does. You mention that everyone deserves to be elevated and in a perfect world that'll happen. However, that is not only on Becky. She can only do so much. A lot of that will be on how the people she goes up against are presented.
This story has been going down the tubes since the McMahons got involved. It's clear they don't entirely understand what got Becky over. They learned the wrong lessons when she was constantly beating down Charlotte shortly after Summerslam and the crowd ate it up. The crowd saw it as retribution, righteous fury and at the time Charlotte was still above Becky in the pecking order. Doing it now with equals and with the story they've been telling it's not nearly as good. At the same time, they've had months to prepare for this. They've had months to figure out how to put Ronda up against Becky who has been on fire on the mic and not have her look like a fool. Even Charlotte right now feels like she's kind of in a vacuum doing her own thing. She's doing some excellent character work but none of it feels like it really matters to this match partly because they've tried to turn Becky into a silent badass and have Ronda give long promos which is backwards. I can see how some feel that at a certain point, Becky should have stopped with the twitter pokes. It was clear Ronda was not able to fend for herself. At the same time, if the office was going to okay twitter, surely at least someone must have known what Becky's been up to all these months. This feud should have been fire and it's all but coals now, however I don't think Becky deserves as much blame as she's getting. A simple one on one, find out who's the best feud has turned into a seven person feud involving every active McMahon. It's a mess.
For the record I hate that the feud has gone this way. I was pumped for it and now I'm lukewarm. I want Ronda looking like a beast, I want her making us wonder if maybe Becky won't make it after all. They need to play to Ronda's strengths and they need to do it fast. I am all for her giving Becky a beating she'll never forget if that's what it takes to bring this thing back to life.
I didn't say it's only on Becky. She's a piece of it exactly like how the other superstars in this feud, those backstage working on this and well, time in general, it's all part of it. No one is solely blaming Becky here but I'm just not going to say "nah she's good, she's completely fine, she gets zero blame" because she's just not helping at times when she actively could be helping. I don't see her doing it when I see Charlotte helping other feuds not even associated with her. We all know Ronda's the biggest issue given she can't keep up and she's so prideful she's not trying to change things or ask for help but at the same time that's just one part of the puzzle. I'm sure if the office said "hey Ronda, you need to tap out" she'd be like "it's my Twitter, I can keep up watch" adn then Shane rolls his eyes as Ronda keeps on tweeting. Everyone does need to be elevated. Yeah, it's not a perfect world but at the same time when you know you have options and you have ability you do what you can to make the best out of what you're given.
If there's one thing we all know it's that the office is terrible with long-term planning. If something happens by accident or if something happens organically and the company just lucks into it (Kofi's rise) then it'll be dope but when it comes to an angle that extends this long the company tends to just get loss in what they want to do. Edge said something great on last week's podcast with Christian where he said that some of the best stories happen without being told or planned, just organically. Sometimes you don't need massive promos to get the job done. Sometimes you don't need the social media fights. All you just need is a great story and that's one reason why Kofi's story works so well. They didn't put much thought into it and as of a few weeks ago they didn't know who Bryan was truly facing at WM but it all worked out when it did.
This entire women's WM35 main event thing is just another example of when too much planning fails and in turn there's way too many cogs, way too many variables, it's wild.
What I think they'll do is have Charlotte go out there Monday, try to grab the title and then Charlotte will (again) get her ass beat by one or both of them and then that'll be it. Charlotte's going to become the conduit to get things right on track because these other two aren't focused on what matters and that'll at least put the focus on the triple threat and it'll allow Charlotte to mix it up with Becky on social media to save Ronda. Ronda might say some stuff to Charlotte and Charlotte won't respond because well, Ronda needs help.
Either way, this thing's just a huge mess. Nobody wanted this huge mess but that's how this company works when they plan too much.
That's fair, Becky could be actively helping. I didn't mean just you in my previous posts though. I saw several posters in here who seemed to be blaming Becky for a lot. Maybe they weren't blaming as much as I thought but some of the comments seemed overly harsh for the situation.
I do agree though that this has turned into a huge mess. That's probably bugging me more than the rest of this, that the first Women's main event went from an easy slam dunk to a dumpster fire. I just hope they get things back on track.
WON reported that after Ronda was booed at Survivor Series, nobody of importance backstage cared about her being booed as they don't care if she's booed, they don't care if she's cheered, they just want loud fans. This is what Reigns and Cena said all the time when they were booed and now it's on Ronda. With that said, why do you think they're playing to the boos now? Because they want Becky to be the 100% hero of the match and in their minds it keeps heat on the match to give it that kayfabe breaking feeling. Same thing they tried to do with Lesnar last year except Reigns didn’t have support like Becky does. If the WON report is true, we’re also many months removed from that and it is looking more likely than Ronda is leaving and Becky is being pushed to the moon, things which weren’t 100% apparent in November. And I would take WON reports such as that with a grain of salt. A lot of the wishy washy news seems like just speculation in the newsletter. If they wanted Becky to be the 100% hero in all this, we'd be seeing a vastly different Ronda. She'd be giving you people promos, she wouldn't be trying to get Becky reinstated, hell she'd probably gloat about Becky not being able to handle the pressure or something. No, if Heyman is helping her, he needs some damn help himself.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:57:07 GMT -5
I really can't at all see merit to the idea that they're intentionally having Ronda bomb the feud to get Becky cheered. Alluding to previous transphobic comments is a good way to potentially get sponsors to cause issues for them and I don't buy that Ronda's so damn talented that she was purposefully blowing spots in the Bayley match on the fly to put over the idea that the negative crowd was getting to her. Especially when mixed with her history when it comes to hardship - she buckles. That's just what she does.
Plus it doesn't even track with the way the actual story's being told. Going strictly by what's onscreen, Ronda is the hero here. She's the one trying to be an honorable fighting champion while Becky keeps sneak-attacking her.
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