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Post by Texas Tornado on Mar 2, 2019 1:57:11 GMT -5
Ronda can't take the slightest bit of criticism with literally anything she does. She's not the type to be self aware.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:06:10 GMT -5
Because they want Becky to be the 100% hero of the match and in their minds it keeps heat on the match to give it that kayfabe breaking feeling. Same thing they tried to do with Lesnar last year except Reigns didn’t have support like Becky does. If the WON report is true, we’re also many months removed from that and it is looking more likely than Ronda is leaving and Becky is being pushed to the moon, things which weren’t 100% apparent in November. And I would take WON reports such as that with a grain of salt. A lot of the wishy washy news seems like just speculation in the newsletter. Idk about that. Ronda isn't a good actress. After Charlotte beat her ass at Survivor Series and Ronda was making her way out she was saying "I'm sorry" to the fans. One fan said "The Man is better" and she looked at them sternly and said "you're not a man" and then kept walking and turned her "I'm sad guys" face on again as she was saying "I'm sorry" again. She then looked sad at the crowd, the boos got louder, then looked pissed and then walked away. She's not able to pull something like that off by acting.
That's fair, Becky could be actively helping. I didn't mean just you in my previous posts though. I saw several posters in here who seemed to be blaming Becky for a lot. Maybe they weren't blaming as much as I thought but some of the comments seemed overly harsh for the situation. I do agree though that this has turned into a huge mess. That's probably bugging me more than the rest of this, that the first Women's main event went from an easy slam dunk to a dumpster fire. I just hope they get things back on track.
Yeah the women deserve a better build up than this. Nobody wants this and it's just sad. We'll see what happens Monday.
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Post by theironyuppie on Mar 2, 2019 2:09:13 GMT -5
I used the attitude era examples because they come to mind most readily. The thing is there has long been verbal sparring on the mic and I am all for people helping elevate each other, it just seems like people are calling Becky selfish and terrible because she hasn't wrestled 20 minute barely won matches against everyone on the roster in the last month (hyperbole I know). That's what I was reacting to. This woman has put others over, she has put on fantastic matches even in the last seven months. Is she getting the lion's share of the reward? Absolutely but that makes sense given how much she's elevated everything she does. You mention that everyone deserves to be elevated and in a perfect world that'll happen. However, that is not only on Becky. She can only do so much. A lot of that will be on how the people she goes up against are presented.
This story has been going down the tubes since the McMahons got involved. It's clear they don't entirely understand what got Becky over. They learned the wrong lessons when she was constantly beating down Charlotte shortly after Summerslam and the crowd ate it up. The crowd saw it as retribution, righteous fury and at the time Charlotte was still above Becky in the pecking order. Doing it now with equals and with the story they've been telling it's not nearly as good. At the same time, they've had months to prepare for this. They've had months to figure out how to put Ronda up against Becky who has been on fire on the mic and not have her look like a fool. Even Charlotte right now feels like she's kind of in a vacuum doing her own thing. She's doing some excellent character work but none of it feels like it really matters to this match partly because they've tried to turn Becky into a silent badass and have Ronda give long promos which is backwards. I can see how some feel that at a certain point, Becky should have stopped with the twitter pokes. It was clear Ronda was not able to fend for herself. At the same time, if the office was going to okay twitter, surely at least someone must have known what Becky's been up to all these months. This feud should have been fire and it's all but coals now, however I don't think Becky deserves as much blame as she's getting. A simple one on one, find out who's the best feud has turned into a seven person feud involving every active McMahon. It's a mess.
For the record I hate that the feud has gone this way. I was pumped for it and now I'm lukewarm. I want Ronda looking like a beast, I want her making us wonder if maybe Becky won't make it after all. They need to play to Ronda's strengths and they need to do it fast. I am all for her giving Becky a beating she'll never forget if that's what it takes to bring this thing back to life.
I didn't say it's only on Becky. She's a piece of it exactly like how the other superstars in this feud, those backstage working on this and well, time in general, it's all part of it. No one is solely blaming Becky here but I'm just not going to say "nah she's good, she's completely fine, she gets zero blame" because she's just not helping at times when she actively could be helping. I don't see her doing it when I see Charlotte helping other feuds not even associated with her. We all know Ronda's the biggest issue given she can't keep up and she's so prideful she's not trying to change things or ask for help but at the same time that's just one part of the puzzle. I'm sure if the office said "hey Ronda, you need to tap out" she'd be like "it's my Twitter, I can keep up watch" adn then Shane rolls his eyes as Ronda keeps on tweeting. Everyone does need to be elevated. Yeah, it's not a perfect world but at the same time when you know you have options and you have ability you do what you can to make the best out of what you're given.
I think this speaks to a crucial difference in the way they do their social media. Charlotte sticks loosely to kayfabe and even in her kayfabe tweets as a heel focuses more on being obnoxious herself (the 'ISN'T IT EXCITING?" one about her being added to the Mania match is a good example) rather than mocking her opponents on their promos or look or wrestling ability. She posts non-kayfabe things about her charity or media appearances, frequently likes or comments on coworkers posts, puts a lot of focus on defending coworkers like Ruby Riott and paying tribute to people who aren't even still with the company like Tenille Dashwood. Plus her media interviews tend to be out of character, besides a few lines she'll throw in in character. Becky's approach since turning has been to go strongly kayfabe in the sense she does nothing in her social media to support anyone besides herself, its a fusion between old-school attitude and new technology. She ignores things that virtually everyone on the roster commented on like Mean Gene's death or Roman's return, she tears into and trolls her coworkers, even ones she's not feuding with if they even dare mention her on twitter, like that run before Survivor Series where she was randomly attacking everyone from Carmella to Chris Jericho to Alexa Bliss. While she usually stays on the kayfabe line of things, she's happy to throw in shoot references or allusions if it helps her cause, like the Russo line in response to Ronda's recent nonsense, or the time she alluded to Mickie James sleeping with John Cena. She also expertly employs smark stereotypes of wrestling in her rhetoric. Most of her interviews are tightly in-character, even on podcasts like Edge and Christian's.
I think Becky's approach is without doubt more effective in the short-term because if you like her character then it lets you see more of her character outside the show (which I believe Becky herself explained in a rare interview where she wasn't talking 'in character'), but I'm unsure if it will work the best in the long term, especially when (as will likely be the case after Mania) she's fully on top and is only punching down against her opponents. (The Asuka feud already showed that her social media doesn't work nearly as well when its against someone smarks like and respect.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:16:07 GMT -5
I didn't say it's only on Becky. She's a piece of it exactly like how the other superstars in this feud, those backstage working on this and well, time in general, it's all part of it. No one is solely blaming Becky here but I'm just not going to say "nah she's good, she's completely fine, she gets zero blame" because she's just not helping at times when she actively could be helping. I don't see her doing it when I see Charlotte helping other feuds not even associated with her. We all know Ronda's the biggest issue given she can't keep up and she's so prideful she's not trying to change things or ask for help but at the same time that's just one part of the puzzle. I'm sure if the office said "hey Ronda, you need to tap out" she'd be like "it's my Twitter, I can keep up watch" adn then Shane rolls his eyes as Ronda keeps on tweeting. Everyone does need to be elevated. Yeah, it's not a perfect world but at the same time when you know you have options and you have ability you do what you can to make the best out of what you're given.
I think this speaks to a crucial difference in the way they do their social media. Charlotte sticks loosely to kayfabe and even in her kayfabe tweets as a heel focuses more on being obnoxious herself (the 'ISN'T IT EXCITING?" one about her being added to the Mania match is a good example) rather than mocking her opponents on their promos or look or wrestling ability. She posts non-kayfabe things about her charity or media appearances, frequently likes or comments on coworkers posts, puts a lot of focus on defending coworkers like Ruby Riott and paying tribute to people who aren't even still with the company like Tenille Dashwood. Plus her media interviews tend to be out of character, besides a few lines she'll throw in in character. Becky's approach since turning has been to go strongly kayfabe in the sense she does nothing in her social media to support anyone besides herself, its a fusion between old-school attitude and new technology. She ignores things that virtually everyone on the roster commented on like Mean Gene's death or Roman's return, she tears into and trolls her coworkers, even ones she's not feuding with if they even dare mention her on twitter, like that run before Survivor Series where she was randomly attacking everyone from Carmella to Chris Jericho to Alexa Bliss. While she usually stays on the kayfabe line of things, she's happy to throw in shoot references or allusions if it helps her cause, like the Russo line in response to Ronda's recent nonsense, or the time she alluded to Mickie James sleeping with John Cena. She also expertly employs smark stereotypes of wrestling in her rhetoric. Most of her interviews are tightly in-character, even on podcasts like Edge and Christian's.
I think Becky's approach is without doubt more effective in the short-term because if you like her character then it lets you see more of her character outside the show (which I believe Becky herself explained in a rare interview where she wasn't talking 'in character'), but I'm unsure if it will work the best in the long term, especially when (as will likely be the case after Mania) she's fully on top and is only punching down against her opponents. (The Asuka feud already showed that her social media doesn't work nearly as well when its against someone smarks like and respect.)
Amazing critique of their social media styles. It's pretty interesting because then you look the other wrestlers and how they use theirs. Some stick strictly to promoting where they'll be, others use it as if it's away from the job, everyone has their own styles. Becky and Charlotte however use theirs to their advantage regardless which works to their benefit. It's all how you use the tool at the end of the day.
I do wonder how Becky's social media style will change when she's Raw Women's Champion. This time she'll be a firm babyface who has everyone fully behind her and she'll be cemented with large opportunities so we'll see what happens.
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Post by darbus alan on Mar 2, 2019 2:25:01 GMT -5
I can't wait for Ronda to go "This is a shoot brother!" at Becky and then gibber into borderline transphobic insults.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 3:35:27 GMT -5
Haa. I really am preaching to the choir. I suppose my "counterpoint" is.. Braun Strowman. I'm just jaded man. The sky might not fall *today*, but recent history suggest that it will. Doesn't take long to go from made to goober. Braun is exactly why Becky needs to be vulnerable now, though. The "Braun is OP" thread is the cautionary tale I suggest reading all the way through because it's emblematic of exactly what needs to mitigate the issue now before it reaches the point it will. People said they needed to ease up on Braun just a little because he was just absolutely too much, and people complained that the claim was that they wanted to see Braun "bitchified". He kept being the super impossible overpowered monster with no weaknesses, the Kevin Owens feud happened and it pissed some people off even more because it was so bad and one-sided. Then they pulled Braun down from those heights way too hard way too quickly, and the steep drop killed him. You can't book someone as an absolute god unless you intend to keep them there and they never wanted to, just like inevitably Becky won't be on top forever. WWE needs to temper the issue and expectation now before it creates an end product nobody is happy with, and I think so far they have done really well on that. So many people decried the Asuka win as a portent of doom and so far it hasn't been, but it has grounded Becky in a waqy she needs to be grounded before it goes too far. Everything you said about Braun kind of sums up why I feel people are justified in their knee-jerk worrying, even if it is a bummer; here you have one of the most talented hosses to come through in a long time, in the hands of a guy who by all accounts loves him some beef. And he was absolutely on fire.. Then they bungled it. He's some dude now. And there's no shortage of other examples of that kind of enthusiasm-crushing booking. We can talk about what should've been done or what should be done, but the point is what *has* been done, and it's been happening for years. It's damn hard for fans to get invested - even when things are going well - when they've been conditioned to expect their excitement to be snuffed out at any moment by a company that has repeatedly sent the message that they do not care what we think. When the WWE puts out a consistently good product for an extended period of time I'll tell the cynics to have a little faith. Until then? Naw. The WWE gets no benefit of the doubt and they've earned every bit of skepticism that people have towards them. I know I keep hitting the same nail here so I'll be done.
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Post by Hurbster on Mar 2, 2019 4:24:50 GMT -5
Gosh darn it Rhonda, it's real to me.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 2, 2019 5:59:07 GMT -5
In the end, I blame Ronda for this, not really Becky. Ronda could simply not respond, she could simply play more to her character of letting the talk happen in the ring, and she went the complete opposite way and absolutely has made herself look awful. Becky's not unbeatable on social media, Ronda just has no clue how to deal with it. And if HEYMAN is involved and actually "helping" her and this is the result? Then Heyman needs to retire, because he has hurt Ronda's wrestling career way more than helped it, in a near disrepair sense at this point, it's very ugly. And it has helped no one. You can do what you want. I'm putting most of the blame on Ronda but I'm giving some of the blame to Becky too. I know she's smarter than this. If she sees Ronda's screwing up and she keeps attacking her then at that point it's like she's not thinking "ok how I can make Ronda not look like trash, turn this around and in turn it'll make me look better" but more of "ok how can I make Ronda look worse and me look better" and that's not what she should be doing to help the feud. Charlotte's someone who's been shown to hype the other women up on social media to make their upcoming matches/feuds better. She was just hyping up a match she had with Asuka in which Asuka beat her even retweeting a post that had Asuka holding the title after winning. She was also hyping up Ruby's match with Ronda, same with hyping Eva Marie. Along the way she's kept her entire queen persona but it just made those around her look better overall. That's how you do it and that's how you can be a top star and elevate everyone you work with work. Becky's just not there yet or she's just not doing it because she's too focused on herself.
Heyman's been helping Ronda but part of me wonders if she's just not doing what he says. I don't know but judging her vlog she said she's going to "go over some lines with Heyman" but it doesn't say who wrote them.
This vlog was from November and you can see Ronda drained. I flipped through a few of these and one thing's for sure: she hates this damn schedule lmao.
She's not coming back after WM. She can't do it.
And another thing, Ronda always knows what match she has way before she enters the building. Unlike a lot of others who's schedules can change on the fly most of hers seems to be set in stone. You know why. Becky could be helping yes, but at the same time I have to wonder if Becky expects these responses or if she thinks Ronda is gonna turn it around and just... doesn't. I feel like Ronda should be able to stand on her own, or simply stop giving Becky any ammo to fire with. Stick to a lane because her Twitter one is a trash heap. On the topic of the WWE Schedule, I really wonder if some of the homegrowns or former athletes like the former UFCers or the former Football/Sports players get shell shocked by the schedule and the travel. I had a feeling Ronda would but it really shows how WWE is not for everyone. It's a mental game, and that's also why you see so many frustrated when they spend years on it like Rusev and get little to no gain or headway ever. It's one of the toughest jobs you could take, and it's honestly good to sometimes start in the Indys and get your feet wet with travel, it's why Training has the Florida loop too, and maybe why Baszler took so easily to it. Ronda jumped headfirst into wrestling training and got a push out the gate, and it's clearly not been the best strategy for her as her run has gone on.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 2, 2019 7:14:43 GMT -5
Braun is exactly why Becky needs to be vulnerable now, though. The "Braun is OP" thread is the cautionary tale I suggest reading all the way through because it's emblematic of exactly what needs to mitigate the issue now before it reaches the point it will. People said they needed to ease up on Braun just a little because he was just absolutely too much, and people complained that the claim was that they wanted to see Braun "bitchified". He kept being the super impossible overpowered monster with no weaknesses, the Kevin Owens feud happened and it pissed some people off even more because it was so bad and one-sided. Then they pulled Braun down from those heights way too hard way too quickly, and the steep drop killed him. You can't book someone as an absolute god unless you intend to keep them there and they never wanted to, just like inevitably Becky won't be on top forever. WWE needs to temper the issue and expectation now before it creates an end product nobody is happy with, and I think so far they have done really well on that. So many people decried the Asuka win as a portent of doom and so far it hasn't been, but it has grounded Becky in a waqy she needs to be grounded before it goes too far. Everything you said about Braun kind of sums up why I feel people are justified in their knee-jerk worrying, even if it is a bummer; here you have one of the most talented hosses to come through in long time, in the hands of a guy who by all accounts loves him some beef. And he was absolutely on fire.. Then they bungled it. He's some dude now. And there's no shortage of other examples of that kind of enthusiasm-crushing booking. We can talk about what should've been done or what should be done, but the point is what *has* been done, and it's been happening for years. It's damn hard for fans to get invested - even when things are going well - when they've been conditioned to expect their excitement to be snuffed out at any moment by a company that has repeatedly sent the message that they do not care what we think. When the WWE puts out a consistently good product for an extended period of time I'll tell the cynics to have a little faith. Until then? Naw. The WWE gets no benefit of the doubt and they've earned every bit of skepticism that people have towards them. I know I keep hitting the same nail here so I'll be done. Braun was put into a position hwere he wasn't a big deal he was the only deal. Better in every way than anyone who wasn't named Brock or Roman, but they weren't giving him that spot. So when they ran out of non-top guys for him to steamroll through he was left with pretty much nothing. Braun got depushed from being a god and because he had been presented as a god, the fall was absolutely horrible. And I'm not going to say what they did with him was even remotely good television, they f***ed that up. But Becky isn't going to be on top forever and if you're going to bite your nails any time it looks like that's the case. Becky is not going the route Strowman did; she's already been given one title and is about to get another. I'm not saying they deserve the benefit of the doubt, I'm saying that if you're going to take any obstacle or loss on Becky's part as a personal affront, then this is going to be a really f***ing awful time for you.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 2, 2019 7:22:58 GMT -5
I hope the next step in this twitter bullcrap is Becky showing Ronda her link on Fatworld I assume there's already pictures of 800lb Ronda on it Don't you dare, that thread needs to drop to the archives already.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Mar 2, 2019 8:53:13 GMT -5
I hope the next step in this twitter bullcrap is Becky showing Ronda her link on Fatworld I assume there's already pictures of 800lb Ronda on it Don't you dare, that thread needs to drop to the archives already. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's come back.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 2, 2019 17:46:36 GMT -5
(responding to posts I've seen here and in the Becky social media thread) Where are all these "turning on Becky" posts coming from? No one is.
We have some posts in here being critical but all they're sayin is the twitter beef is too one sided and since Ronda has the inability to keep up that Becky is doing too much. A repeated squash.
People are jumping to conclusions about what this discussion even was about.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 2, 2019 17:53:41 GMT -5
(responding to posts I've seen here and in the Becky social media thread) Where are all these "turning on Becky" posts coming from? No one is. We have some posts in here being critical but all they're sayin is the twitter beef is too one sided and since Ronda has the inability to keep up that Becky is doing too much. A repeated squash. People are jumping to conclusions about what this discussion even was about. Some people can't differentiate being critical with turning on someone
You can be critical and still like them and I think what is being said about Becky is fair, which shouldn't be constituted as turning on someone because not everything is positive about them
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 2, 2019 17:56:53 GMT -5
You can do what you want. I'm putting most of the blame on Ronda but I'm giving some of the blame to Becky too. I know she's smarter than this. If she sees Ronda's screwing up and she keeps attacking her then at that point it's like she's not thinking "ok how I can make Ronda not look like trash, turn this around and in turn it'll make me look better" but more of "ok how can I make Ronda look worse and me look better" and that's not what she should be doing to help the feud. Charlotte's someone who's been shown to hype the other women up on social media to make their upcoming matches/feuds better. She was just hyping up a match she had with Asuka in which Asuka beat her even retweeting a post that had Asuka holding the title after winning. She was also hyping up Ruby's match with Ronda, same with hyping Eva Marie. Along the way she's kept her entire queen persona but it just made those around her look better overall. That's how you do it and that's how you can be a top star and elevate everyone you work with work. Becky's just not there yet or she's just not doing it because she's too focused on herself.
Heyman's been helping Ronda but part of me wonders if she's just not doing what he says. I don't know but judging her vlog she said she's going to "go over some lines with Heyman" but it doesn't say who wrote them.
This vlog was from November and you can see Ronda drained. I flipped through a few of these and one thing's for sure: she hates this damn schedule lmao.
She's not coming back after WM. She can't do it.
And another thing, Ronda always knows what match she has way before she enters the building. Unlike a lot of others who's schedules can change on the fly most of hers seems to be set in stone. You know why. Becky could be helping yes, but at the same time I have to wonder if Becky expects these responses or if she thinks Ronda is gonna turn it around and just... doesn't. I feel like Ronda should be able to stand on her own, or simply stop giving Becky any ammo to fire with. Stick to a lane because her Twitter one is a trash heap. On the topic of the WWE Schedule, I really wonder if some of the homegrowns or former athletes like the former UFCers or the former Football/Sports players get shell shocked by the schedule and the travel. I had a feeling Ronda would but it really shows how WWE is not for everyone. It's a mental game, and that's also why you see so many frustrated when they spend years on it like Rusev and get little to no gain or headway ever. It's one of the toughest jobs you could take, and it's honestly good to sometimes start in the Indys and get your feet wet with travel, it's why Training has the Florida loop too, and maybe why Baszler took so easily to it. Ronda jumped headfirst into wrestling training and got a push out the gate, and it's clearly not been the best strategy for her as her run has gone on. I give Ronda credit for actually going in there and trying to do this shit weekly because no way I expected her to do this as much as she has but mentally she needs a lighter schedule. She may not want a lighter schedule and want to be as normal as one the girls as possible but it is in her best interest to have a lighter schedule
She damn sure don't need to be on Brock type of time but as far as her schedule goes, you shouldn't have her out there every week either since the whole point of having her was to make her a special attraction. It's a catch 22, she wants to be out there but she can't really handle being out there as much
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 20:05:35 GMT -5
Becky posted on something on social media about "introducing" Ronda and Charlotte to each other because they're "too focused on her so instead focus on each other since they're going to be WM opponents." Meanwhile, Charlotte, after giving Emma a Happy Birthday shoutout, posted this LMAO!!! That boy Almas got them both in their bags right now lmao.
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Post by theironyuppie on Mar 2, 2019 20:32:25 GMT -5
Becky posted on something on social media about "introducing" Ronda and Charlotte to each other because they're "too focused on her so instead focus on each other since they're going to be WM opponents." Meanwhile, Charlotte, after giving Emma a Happy Birthday shoutout, posted this LMAO!!! That boy Almas got them both in their bags right now lmao.
That Becky tweet comes off weirdly desperate for attention given that Charlotte spent at least half her SDL promo talking about Ronda, even using a Ronda promo from November to illustrate her point about Ronda being a "quitter". Its not her fault that Becky/Ronda chose to ignore the on-air storyline to focus on their social media feud instead.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 2, 2019 20:53:51 GMT -5
Becky posted on something on social media about "introducing" Ronda and Charlotte to each other because they're "too focused on her so instead focus on each other since they're going to be WM opponents." Meanwhile, Charlotte, after giving Emma a Happy Birthday shoutout, posted this LMAO!!! That boy Almas got them both in their bags right now lmao. These two are my new power couple.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 2, 2019 21:06:32 GMT -5
Andrade’s got it made. Works with Zelina Vega in the streets, gets the Queen in the sheets.
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Post by darbus alan on Mar 3, 2019 1:32:12 GMT -5
Charlotte is now known as Charlotte Cien Almas. That's why he's just Andrade now. He let Charlotte borrow his last names.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Mar 3, 2019 1:35:44 GMT -5
This f***ing sucks.
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