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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 3, 2019 18:50:59 GMT -5
Fightful's Sean Ross Sapp said In case some people thought Ronda was a good actor and could handle this, doesn't seem to be. We know Ronda's attitude. Also another place said they've heard that Ronda's really pissed with Becky with this but I haven't gotten any confirmation towards that from elsewhere. Given how Ronda's been pissed before due to boos and such, given her attitude and then this Fightful response? Yeah. One thing's for sure, this whole shit is a mess. Reads like a meta kayfabe "leak" but who knows... A) they want people to think she's mentally weak and embarrassing herself, which makes the angle lame. What was wrong with just wanting to see them fight at Mania? B) she's just lame. C) she's just lame but they're gonna make it seem like meta kayfabe to save face. I'm not sure I care which it is to be honest. I was super into this before "blah blah blah if this wasn't fake I'd beat you up". Now I'm ready for a shift or just to move on. What a fumble.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 3, 2019 20:47:58 GMT -5
This has Heyman as the “source” written all over it. This is his MO lately, looking at last year’s Lesnar rumors around the same time. Make the smart fans think there’s a legit beef and turmoil backstage by leaking these rumors and using shoot comments, whether on social media or even on-air. Man, you need to stop thinking everything's a work lol. Yeah, a lot of stuff is used to work the fans but if you honestly think Ronda's that good of an actor while knowing her past then you're just overestimating her. Some things aren't scripted. Yes I’m well aware that not everything’s a work. I’m definitely not someone that screams everything is a work. But this to me seems like it’s definitely the type of meta-work they’ve done a handful of times in the last few years.
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Post by MAD TITAN on Mar 3, 2019 20:51:04 GMT -5
When wrestlers go at each other on social media I always picture them in catering laughing at stuff they make up about each other while tweeting it to work fans.
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Post by Shai on Mar 3, 2019 21:05:14 GMT -5
When wrestlers go at each other on social media I always picture them in catering laughing at stuff they make up about each other while tweeting it to work fans. I definitely think that's Becky and Charlotte and even Becky amd Graves, Ronda not so much
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Post by ChitownKnight on Mar 3, 2019 21:29:02 GMT -5
I definetly see real animosity here, I mean Becky did post a pic of her husband to antagonize her which has nothing to do with the angle and Ronda’s responses make it sound like she’s actually mad
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 3, 2019 21:34:26 GMT -5
When wrestlers go at each other on social media I always picture them in catering laughing at stuff they make up about each other while tweeting it to work fans. I definitely think that's Becky and Charlotte and even Becky amd Graves, Ronda not so much A lot of Becky ripping on Charlotte reads like they're sitting in the drive-thru laughing it up and Charlotte says "Okay here I just set you up, go make fun of my implant exploding". Which may have set a bad precedent honestly; Charlotte was a great target for Becky to tear down and thoroughly humiliate on a basis of how established she was, but they're also close friends and I'm sure Charlotte was all too happy to step back and let Becky do all this stuff to her. They came up through developmental together, they ride together, there's footage of them cracking jokes in the dairy aisle of a grocery store. There's a closeness there. That doesn't seem to exist with Ronda and I wonder how much that very stark contrast matters to all of this. Becky established this character working with someone she knew she could kill and now she's full bore in a bigger storyline with someone who's made of glass and also all but offering a limb, but not really in a friendly way, just in a "I'm really bad at trash talk" way.
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Post by Shai on Mar 3, 2019 21:41:01 GMT -5
I definitely think that's Becky and Charlotte and even Becky amd Graves, Ronda not so much A lot of Becky ripping on Charlotte reads like they're sitting in the drive-thru laughing it up and Charlotte says "Okay here I just set you up, go make fun of my implant exploding". Which may have set a bad precedent honestly; Charlotte was a great target for Becky to tear down and thoroughly humiliate on a basis of how established she was, but they're also close friends and I'm sure Charlotte was all too happy to step back and let Becky do all this stuff to her. They came up through developmental together, they ride together, there's footage of them cracking jokes in the dairy aisle of a grocery store. There's a closeness there. That doesn't seem to exist with Ronda and I wonder how much that very stark contrast matters to all of this. Becky established this character working with someone she knew she could kill and now she's full bore in a bigger storyline with someone who's made of glass and also all but offering a limb, but not really in a friendly way, just in a "I'm really bad at trash talk" way. This is an excellent point. Becky and Charlotte are best friends in real life. Roasting the shit out of your bestie is a completely different vibe, and it brings up a slightly off-topic point, I've been thinking of, I have really started to notice how many wrestlers have better feuds with the people their friends with irl. Maybe i'm just noticing it more now because thanks to social media we see their behind the scenes lives way more then we ever have.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 3, 2019 21:58:00 GMT -5
Fightful's Sean Ross Sapp said In case some people thought Ronda was a good actor and could handle this, doesn't seem to be. We know Ronda's attitude. Also another place said they've heard that Ronda's really pissed with Becky with this but I haven't gotten any confirmation towards that from elsewhere. Given how Ronda's been pissed before due to boos and such, given her attitude and then this Fightful response? Yeah. One thing's for sure, this whole shit is a mess. This has Heyman as the “source” written all over it. This is his MO lately, looking at last year’s Lesnar rumors around the same time. Make the smart fans think there’s a legit beef and turmoil backstage by leaking these rumors and using shoot comments, whether on social media or even on-air. Na, I don't buy it
My biggest thing is how does this benefit the feud what so ever and sell people on this match
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 3, 2019 23:08:37 GMT -5
This has Heyman as the “source” written all over it. This is his MO lately, looking at last year’s Lesnar rumors around the same time. Make the smart fans think there’s a legit beef and turmoil backstage by leaking these rumors and using shoot comments, whether on social media or even on-air. Na, I don't buy it My biggest thing is how does this benefit the feud what so ever and sell people on this match
You could say the same thing about the Lesnar stuff last year. Just because it’s not a good idea doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s a good idea.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 3, 2019 23:29:19 GMT -5
Na, I don't buy it My biggest thing is how does this benefit the feud what so ever and sell people on this match
You could say the same thing about the Lesnar stuff last year. Just because it’s not a good idea doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s a good idea. The Brock worked shoot stuff was a direct attempt to make people cheer Roman by making it seem like Brock was on his way out/being shitty and not wanting to be around/getting favoritism from the office. They wanted to get Roman cheers even if it was just by making them hate Brock more. It wasn't a good idea but the motivation there was clear from a mile away and you could see why they'd think it would be a good idea. It may not have worked, but people understood the idea, they just thought it was lame. Nobody's seeing the connective tissue on this one.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 3, 2019 23:39:36 GMT -5
You could say the same thing about the Lesnar stuff last year. Just because it’s not a good idea doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s a good idea. The Brock worked shoot stuff was a direct attempt to make people cheer Roman by making it seem like Brock was on his way out/being shitty and not wanting to be around/getting favoritism from the office. They wanted to get Roman cheers even if it was just by making them hate Brock more. It wasn't a good idea but the motivation there was clear from a mile away and you could see why they'd think it would be a good idea. It may not have worked, but people understood the idea, they just thought it was lame. Nobody's seeing the connective tissue on this one. The connective tissue is Ronda started getting a smattering of boos from the hardcore fans so now they’re going all in on getting those fans to boo her more. So similar to Brock they’re looking to establish a clear “outsider” heel for the Mania main event. The difference of course is it will actually work this year because Becky will get cheered and Ronda will get booed.
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Post by theironyuppie on Mar 3, 2019 23:41:31 GMT -5
You could say the same thing about the Lesnar stuff last year. Just because it’s not a good idea doesn’t mean they don’t think it’s a good idea. The Brock worked shoot stuff was a direct attempt to make people cheer Roman by making it seem like Brock was on his way out/being shitty and not wanting to be around/getting favoritism from the office. They wanted to get Roman cheers even if it was just by making them hate Brock more. It wasn't a good idea but the motivation there was clear from a mile away and you could see why they'd think it would be a good idea. It may not have worked, but people understood the idea, they just thought it was lame. Nobody's seeing the connective tissue on this one. Plus on TV Ronda’s a face and they’re trying to link her and Becky, like Stephanie’s “cut from the same cloth’ promo did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 23:47:13 GMT -5
The connective tissue is Ronda started getting a smattering of boos from the hardcore fans so now they’re going all in on getting those fans to boo her more. So similar to Brock they’re looking to establish a clear “outsider” heel for the Mania main event. The difference of course is it will actually work this year because Becky will get cheered and Ronda will get booed. Nah, I'm not buying it. For one, Ronda already started to get slightly booed by the hardcore fans when she faced Nia last year and since then the boos have increased. By the time Charlotte beat her down after their Survivor Series match Ronda was pelted with boos. If they wanted Ronda to be booed by more people they wouldn't plan things the way you're saying as since those situations happened we've seen Ronda make face statements and do things a face would do. Ronda herself is actively trying to get Becky, the main face, into the match, that's a face manuever. They would have turned Ronda heel by having her beat down Becky and that would give her enough boos as is given they already hear the comments from a good amount of the fans. That's exactly why Charlotte's a heel now and it's why it works. Charlotte beats down Becky (the face) and that's all it takes to make the fans boo Charlotte more and root for Becky more. For Ronda, we've already seen numerous times where if they wanted to turn her heel it could easily have been done. Ronda pushed the latter at TLC, stayed face the next night. Ronda confronted Becky numerous times, stayed face after the segment. Ronda speaks to the Authority, stays a face. The Authority compares Ronda and Becky which pushes Ronda into the face aspect. They've had chances to do it.
So you mean to tell me that they're doing this social media stuff so people boo against Ronda more when really they could have done a far easier way that's guaranteed to work that would not only make Ronda a bigger heel but make Becky a bigger underdog? It's not adding up. This company wouldn't do this Rube Goldberg Machine-like plan in favor of something that can be done far easier with a higher success rate.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 3, 2019 23:48:47 GMT -5
The Brock worked shoot stuff was a direct attempt to make people cheer Roman by making it seem like Brock was on his way out/being shitty and not wanting to be around/getting favoritism from the office. They wanted to get Roman cheers even if it was just by making them hate Brock more. It wasn't a good idea but the motivation there was clear from a mile away and you could see why they'd think it would be a good idea. It may not have worked, but people understood the idea, they just thought it was lame. Nobody's seeing the connective tissue on this one. The connective tissue is Ronda started getting a smattering of boos from the hardcore fans so now they’re going all in on getting those fans to boo her more. So similar to Brock they’re looking to establish a clear “outsider” heel for the Mania main event. The difference of course is it will actually work this year because Becky will get cheered and Ronda will get booed. Nah that's not tracking for me; Ronda is being presented as a bit more of a face, or at least not Charlotte, who at this point is a massive heat magnet and ensuring there's a heel people will boo viciously. Becky has no issue getting cheered where Roman did, and the hoops they jumped over that long stretch of time to get him cheered were absurd and ever-present. Brock's history with the worked shoot stuff goes back even to Summerslam 2016. It's a consistent pattern of how they deal with him. The "Brock is Vince's boy" stuff on-screen furthered that narrative and there's none of that here, the actual television presentation contradicts this idea completely. She's already getting steadily more sour reception just doing her own thing, and I can't buy they've put this much care and work into "let's make sure they cheer for the person crowds are already cheering for". They want Ronda to be a face at the end of this for whatever comes next and they are not a company that handles the idea of shifting alignment for a match anywhere near graciously enough for me to buy this.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 3, 2019 23:51:54 GMT -5
The connective tissue is Ronda started getting a smattering of boos from the hardcore fans so now they’re going all in on getting those fans to boo her more. So similar to Brock they’re looking to establish a clear “outsider” heel for the Mania main event. The difference of course is it will actually work this year because Becky will get cheered and Ronda will get booed. Nah, I'm not buying it. For one, Ronda already started to get slightly booed by the hardcore fans when she faced Nia last year and since then the boos have increased. By the time Charlotte beat her down after their Survivor Series match Ronda was pelted with boos. If they wanted Ronda to be booed by more people they wouldn't plan things the way you're saying as since those situations happened we've seen Ronda make face statements and do things a face would do. Ronda herself is actively trying to get Becky, the main face, into the match, that's a face manuever. They would have turned Ronda heel already, have her beat down Becky and that would give her enough boos as is given they already hear the comments from a good amount of the fans. That's exactly why Charlotte's a heel now and it's why it works. Charlotte beats down Becky (the face) and that's all it takes. For Ronda, we've already seen numerous times where if they wanted to turn her heel it could easily have been done. Ronda pushed the latter at TLC, stayed face the next night. Ronda confronted Becky numerous times, stayed face after the segment. Ronda speaks to the Authority, stays a face. r her confronting Becky numerous times. They've had chances to do it.
So you mean to tell me that they're doing this social media stuff so people boo against Ronda more when really they could have done a far easier way that's guaranteed to work that would not only make Ronda a bigger heel but make Becky a bigger underdog? It's not adding up. This company wouldn't do this Rube Goldberg Machine-like plan in favor of something that can be done far easier with a higher success rate. It’s not “just” to get the crowd to boo. It’s also to get the crowd thinking there’s some type of “real life” beef. That’s the whole meta aspect of it (if it’s indeed a work). The WWE and Heyman especially (rightly or wrongly) seem to think blurring this line between kayfabe and reality is beneficial.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 4, 2019 0:05:08 GMT -5
The connective tissue is Ronda started getting a smattering of boos from the hardcore fans so now they’re going all in on getting those fans to boo her more. So similar to Brock they’re looking to establish a clear “outsider” heel for the Mania main event. The difference of course is it will actually work this year because Becky will get cheered and Ronda will get booed. Nah that's not tracking for me; Ronda is being presented as a bit more of a face, or at least not Charlotte, who at this point is a massive heat magnet and ensuring there's a heel people will boo viciously. Becky has no issue getting cheered where Roman did, and the hoops they jumped over that long stretch of time to get him cheered were absurd and ever-present. Brock's history with the worked shoot stuff goes back even to Summerslam 2016. It's a consistent pattern of how they deal with him. The "Brock is Vince's boy" stuff on-screen furthered that narrative and there's none of that here, the actual television presentation contradicts this idea completely. She's already getting steadily more sour reception just doing her own thing, and I can't buy they've put this much care and work into "let's make sure they cheer for the person crowds are already cheering for". They want Ronda to be a face at the end of this for whatever comes next and they are not a company that handles the idea of shifting alignment for a match anywhere near graciously enough for me to buy this. Even if it’s not to make Ronda 100% heel, it seems like a breaking the fourth wall storyline to try and blur the lines of work and shoot for the hardcore fans.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 4, 2019 0:06:36 GMT -5
Nah, I'm not buying it. For one, Ronda already started to get slightly booed by the hardcore fans when she faced Nia last year and since then the boos have increased. By the time Charlotte beat her down after their Survivor Series match Ronda was pelted with boos. If they wanted Ronda to be booed by more people they wouldn't plan things the way you're saying as since those situations happened we've seen Ronda make face statements and do things a face would do. Ronda herself is actively trying to get Becky, the main face, into the match, that's a face manuever. They would have turned Ronda heel already, have her beat down Becky and that would give her enough boos as is given they already hear the comments from a good amount of the fans. That's exactly why Charlotte's a heel now and it's why it works. Charlotte beats down Becky (the face) and that's all it takes. For Ronda, we've already seen numerous times where if they wanted to turn her heel it could easily have been done. Ronda pushed the latter at TLC, stayed face the next night. Ronda confronted Becky numerous times, stayed face after the segment. Ronda speaks to the Authority, stays a face. r her confronting Becky numerous times. They've had chances to do it.
So you mean to tell me that they're doing this social media stuff so people boo against Ronda more when really they could have done a far easier way that's guaranteed to work that would not only make Ronda a bigger heel but make Becky a bigger underdog? It's not adding up. This company wouldn't do this Rube Goldberg Machine-like plan in favor of something that can be done far easier with a higher success rate. It’s not “just” to get the crowd to boo. It’s also to get the crowd thinking there’s some type of “real life” beef. That’s the whole meta aspect of it (if it’s indeed a work). The WWE and Heyman especially (rightly or wrongly) seem to think blurring this line between kayfabe and reality is beneficial. This story already has a metatextual narrative to it and it's one built on how the system is holding Becky down. Charlotte is the embodiment of that already. Whenever WWE does worked shoots, it's to emphasize the meta narrative already in place in some way, not to veer off into an entirely different direction. They can barely write reality in one world, the idea they're juggling several different meta narratives for this one match is absolutely ludicrous. Vince can't even decide if the Corbin/Drew/Lashley faction is reformed or not and swings back and forth on his live television show, he's not playing four-dimensional chess against not only the audience but also the concept of fluid storytelling by having Ronda tweet out shit so stupid and damaging that it had the rest of the roster openly shitting on it, when "it" is the build to the potential main event of their biggest show. All in service of getting one of the most over faces in the company cheered when that's already happening. If they wanted to introduce more worked shoot elements to this we'd see them with Charlotte, who's vacationing in Mexico away from this shit and not even bothering to put herself into the conversation, it's not adding up.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 4, 2019 0:10:12 GMT -5
It’s not “just” to get the crowd to boo. It’s also to get the crowd thinking there’s some type of “real life” beef. That’s the whole meta aspect of it (if it’s indeed a work). The WWE and Heyman especially (rightly or wrongly) seem to think blurring this line between kayfabe and reality is beneficial. This story already has a metatextual narrative to it and it's one built on how the system is holding Becky down. Charlotte is the embodiment of that already. Whenever WWE does worked shoots, it's to emphasize the meta narrative already in place in some way, not to veer off into an entirely different direction. They can barely write reality in one world, the idea they're juggling several different meta narratives for this one match is absolutely ludicrous. Vince can't even decide if the Corbin/Drew/Lashley faction is reformed or not and swings back and forth on his live television show, he's not playing four-dimensional chess against not only the audience but also the concept of fluid storytelling by having Ronda tweet out shit so stupid and damaging that it had the rest of the roster openly shitting on it, when "it" is the build to the potential main event of their biggest show. All in service of getting one of the most over faces in the company cheered when that's already happening. If they wanted to introduce more worked shoot elements to this we'd see them with Charlotte, who's vacationing in Mexico away from this shit and not even bothering to put herself into the conversation, it's not adding up. I’m not saying it’s all Vince doing this. I think the social media stuff is likely mostly Heyman’s work. Doing the social media angle can get more people to buy into the work than normally would if it’s just done on TV because we assume there is more leeway for talent on social media. Just look at this thread for the proof that people are more likely to buy into social media posts being a shoot than they would anything they’ll see on Raw.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 0:18:58 GMT -5
It’s not “just” to get the crowd to boo. It’s also to get the crowd thinking there’s some type of “real life” beef. That’s the whole meta aspect of it (if it’s indeed a work). The WWE and Heyman especially (rightly or wrongly) seem to think blurring this line between kayfabe and reality is beneficial. Nah, that "real life beef" thing only works in storylines that need it. Fans were fully invested in this storyline before any of this happened so for them to throw that in there would not only be them doing too much for the storyline but it would also be exhausting their options. For the Lesnar thing, like stated, Lesnar's character has always been about being real since he's returned so yeah that's why he does it. They didn't do any of this real life beef with Axel, didn't do it with Cesaro, they just don't do it with anyone other than Lesnar who's character is built around it. Ronda's character isn't built on that given she's had trouble with the Rubys, Nias and etc. It's different for her.
Let alone Charlotte here who said she's not dealing with any of the social media banter until after WM so at that point if this whole thing was part of "the plan" then Charlotte's saying "nah, you exclude me" which she wouldn't do since she's a team player. She's going to be in the match so without her being in this that muddies the water.
At this point you need to explain why they'd want to make this some "fake beef meta" thing when really not everyone's included in it, when this storyline's already very popular with fans and when they haven't done any of this prior with Becky or Ronda.
They wouldn't think this was beneficial when everything was already working perfectly to their plans. Vince doesn't work like that and Heyman of all people would know to not change the narrative of a storyline around like this.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 4, 2019 0:35:55 GMT -5
It’s not “just” to get the crowd to boo. It’s also to get the crowd thinking there’s some type of “real life” beef. That’s the whole meta aspect of it (if it’s indeed a work). The WWE and Heyman especially (rightly or wrongly) seem to think blurring this line between kayfabe and reality is beneficial. Nah, that "real life beef" thing only works in storylines that need it. Fans were fully invested in this storyline before any of this happened so for them to throw that in there would not only be them doing too much for the storyline but it would also be exhausting their options. For the Lesnar thing, like stated, Lesnar's character has always been about being real since he's returned so yeah that's why he does it. They didn't do any of this real life beef with Axel, didn't do it with Cesaro, they just don't do it with anyone other than Lesnar who's character is built around it. Ronda's character isn't built on that given she's had trouble with the Rubys, Nias and etc. It's different for her.
Let alone Charlotte here who said she's not dealing with any of the social media banter until after WM so at that point if this whole thing was part of "the plan" then Charlotte's saying "nah, you exclude me" which she wouldn't do since she's a team player. She's going to be in the match so without her being in this that muddies the water.
At this point you need to explain why they'd want to make this some "fake beef meta" thing when really not everyone's included in it, when this storyline's already very popular with fans and when they haven't done any of this prior with Becky or Ronda.
They wouldn't think this was beneficial when everything was already working perfectly to their plans. Vince doesn't work like that and Heyman of all people would know to not change the narrative of a storyline around like this.
Agree to disagree but I guess we’ll see how it plays out!
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