The Heenan Family
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I'm a legend in this sport. If you don't believe me, ask me.
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Post by The Heenan Family on May 19, 2019 12:18:36 GMT -5
I thought the Moolah episode was the weakest, and left a lot unsaid, including the stuff with Mad Maxine, the Jumping Bomb Angels. I agree that it was the weakest. Though it's probably for the best that the Bomb Angels story didn't make the cut because I'm not sure the producers would have dug deep enough to realize the timeline of the story doesn't add up. It also suggests the guy we are fairly convinced doesn't care much about tag divisions, was suddenly so invested in some two year story arc for the women's tag division. Yet somehow a screwy finish in a foreign country ruined everything and couldn't be salvaged. Not to mention Moolah, who is all about her share, costing herself a paycheck.
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Post by corndog on May 20, 2019 10:11:09 GMT -5
The Moolah episode was weird. Princess Victoria basically confirmed most of the bad things about her but then kind of defended her in the end. I think having Wendi Richter, Sweet Georgia Browns family coupled with Princess Victoria's stories covered a fair amount of the bad stuff, but they kept contradicting it with the others.
The one thing it did really show, is how much of a carny Vince has always been. Cutting Richter's legs off because she wanted more money to then side with Moolah set back women's wrestling in a bad way.
I really don't see why Moolah needs to be remembered for in a positive light. She didn't help women's wrestling at all. Basically she picked up where Wolfe and Mildred Burke left off after their ugly divorce. Much like Burke/Wolfe, Moolah used the relationship to maintain her top spot in women's wrestling and unlike Burke managed to keep it after they separated using the same ugly tactics. While it's heavily documented that Wolfe was abusive and took advantage of the talent, there was one positive under him, women's wrestling was taken seriously and had become a top draw in the business. When Moolah and Lee took over, it went back to being a sideshow act that really didn't draw.
Who knows what would happened to women's wrestling in the 60s/70s/80s had Moolah never came to power. Would another couple like her and Lee just taken it over, or would it just be promoted like the men's and the success of the 50s carried over?
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Post by Prince Petty on May 21, 2019 14:35:11 GMT -5
The Von Erichs episode was the least friendly to anyone new to the subject matter that I've watched so far. If I hadn't known how many brothers there were, and the order of events, I'm honestly not sure I'd have been able to figure it out from this.
It's just too big a topic for a forty minute documentary to do justice to, I think. The introduction to WCCW and the stardom of the brothers was too perfunctory, David's death was glossed over very quickly, and they didn't even mention the oldest brother, Jack, who died as a child, until after David died.
I always get a bit sad listening to Kevin Von Erich talk, because he (understandably) seems to have this deep, bleak sadness to him. And he seemed almost mentally out of it at times, when being interviewed. The fact he still defends his father is sad, because most accounts of Fritz are far less charitable, and far more likely to apportion some blame to him for the pressure he put on his sons. Especially wheeling Chris out to do an interview when he was clearly not in his right mind (something else the show didn't address at all).
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salz4life
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Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on May 21, 2019 16:28:36 GMT -5
The Von Erichs episode was the least friendly to anyone new to the subject matter that I've watched so far. If I hadn't known how many brothers there were, and the order of events, I'm honestly not sure I'd have been able to figure it out from this. It's just too big a topic for a forty minute documentary to do justice to, I think. The introduction to WCCW and the stardom of the brothers was too perfunctory, David's death was glossed over very quickly, and they didn't even mention the oldest brother, Jack, who died as a child, until after David died. I always get a bit sad listening to Kevin Von Erich talk, because he (understandably) seems to have this deep, bleak sadness to him. And he seemed almost mentally out of it at times, when being interviewed. The fact he still defends his father is sad, because most accounts of Fritz are far less charitable, and far more likely to apportion some blame to him for the pressure he put on his sons. Especially wheeling Chris out to do an interview when he was clearly not in his right mind (something else the show didn't address at all). I agree.... part of the issue for me (and maybe others) is the fact that we just had The Lapsed Fan podcast due the most comprehensive dive into WCCW as a whole I've ever heard. DSOTR was a decent overview of a subject (just the Von Erichs themselves) that needs more than 45 minutes.
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Post by jason1980s on May 21, 2019 18:44:56 GMT -5
I agree.... part of the issue for me (and maybe others) is the fact that we just had The Lapsed Fan podcast due the most comprehensive dive into WCCW as a whole I've ever heard. DSOTR was a decent overview of a subject (just the Von Erichs themselves) that needs more than 45 minutes. Any in dept look at tragedies and scandals in wrestling would need a week long series or mini series over a few weeks and I don't think there would be enough interest to sustain those lengths. Those who would most likely watch the shows, wrestling fans, already know a lot of the information. It would take a Bill Kristol type of hosted show or one with a team of investigators to really dig up new information and there's probably not enough fandom on their part to want to put look into the scandals and put on a show like that which is wrestling related. Unfortunately some questions will never be truly answered about tragedies and scandals and some wrestlers will always keep to kayfabe in answering questions on real life events.
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cosmo
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Post by cosmo on May 22, 2019 11:43:34 GMT -5
I always get a bit sad listening to Kevin Von Erich talk, because he (understandably) seems to have this deep, bleak sadness to him. And he seemed almost mentally out of it at times, when being interviewed.
I don't remember if it was in Heroes of World Class or WWE's documentary, but I remember seeing an interview where Kevin said, "I used to have a whole bunch of brothers. Now I don't have any." Something like that has gotta weigh heavily on a person.
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Post by Prince Petty on May 22, 2019 11:49:27 GMT -5
I agree.... part of the issue for me (and maybe others) is the fact that we just had The Lapsed Fan podcast due the most comprehensive dive into WCCW as a whole I've ever heard. DSOTR was a decent overview of a subject (just the Von Erichs themselves) that needs more than 45 minutes. Any in dept look at tragedies and scandals in wrestling would need a week long series or mini series over a few weeks and I don't think there would be enough interest to sustain those lengths. Those who would most likely watch the shows, wrestling fans, already know a lot of the information. It would take a Bill Kristol type of hosted show or one with a team of investigators to really dig up new information and there's probably not enough fandom on their part to want to put look into the scandals and put on a show like that which is wrestling related. Unfortunately some questions will never be truly answered about tragedies and scandals and some wrestlers will always keep to kayfabe in answering questions on real life events. The Triumph and Tragedy of WCCW was a much better look at the whole thing, and managed to talk about the Freebirds, Gary Hart, Gentleman Chris Adams, Gino Hernandez and Jimmy Garvin as well. But even with that, I'm sure there are lots of details that were left out because they were too minor or would require too much time to hear all sides of. I always get a bit sad listening to Kevin Von Erich talk, because he (understandably) seems to have this deep, bleak sadness to him. And he seemed almost mentally out of it at times, when being interviewed. I don't remember if it was in Heroes of World Class or WWE's documentary, but I remember seeing an interview where Kevin said, "I used to have a whole bunch of brothers. Now I don't have any." Something like that has gotta weigh heavily on a person.
Jim Cornette recalls that line in this documentary, but it didn't have the same weight as when Kevin said it. "I used to have five brothers, now I'm not even a brother."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 16:12:59 GMT -5
Sweet Georgia Brown's son said Moolah never gave his mother a title shot, because she knew she would LOSE THE MATCH if she did. Okay then.
Wendi Richter had no idea Moolah was under the mask that night. Right.
Princess Victoria details when Moolah basically tried to make her sleep with a promoter, but then says Moolah wasn't a pimp and we should remember her fondly. Um.
These people are all nuts.
And let's not forget that if Kevin had convinced Kerry to go to Alaska with guns and shoot at the polar bears, he'd be alive today.
And when he tried to steal a gun, it was "a great day for Texas."
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Post by corndog on May 23, 2019 18:16:34 GMT -5
Sweet Georgia Brown's son said Moolah never gave his mother a title shot, because she knew she would LOSE THE MATCH if she did. Okay then. Wendi Richter had no idea Moolah was under the mask that night. Right. Princess Victoria details when Moolah basically tried to make her sleep with a promoter, but then says Moolah wasn't a pimp and we should remember her fondly. Um. These people are all nuts. And let's not forget that if Kevin had convinced Kerry to go to Alaska with guns and shoot at the polar bears, he'd be alive today. And when he tried to steal a gun, it was "a great day for Texas." I can understand why Kevin is nuts, it's amazing he's doing as well as he is after everything he's been through. But I definitely thought it was strange that Princess Victoria would say Moolah should be remembered after all the shit she did to her. I wonder if she could have came back had Moolah not slammed her on her injured neck only a month after her injury.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on May 24, 2019 7:58:26 GMT -5
What is this new feature on VL about the Indies like?
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
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Post by salz4life on May 24, 2019 8:37:12 GMT -5
Did anyone watch the "extended" version of the Macho Man episode? Was it any different?
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 24, 2019 8:58:11 GMT -5
Dammit. I didn’t know these were free on the Vice app. The only one I’ve seen was Brody because it got released to YouTube
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on May 24, 2019 12:42:51 GMT -5
What is this new feature on VL about the Indies like? The premiere covered Gabe Sapolsky and EVOLVE. Some of the names featured are no longer there now (Darby Allin, Fred Yehi, Ethan Page), or have gone to NXT/WWE (Matt Riddle and Keith Lee), so this must have been filmed two years ago.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 24, 2019 19:16:39 GMT -5
Maybe it’s my age and my lack of interest in most of the stuff before my time, but I think the series has generally assumed a knowledge of the people involved when you start watching. I’ve had a tough time getting much out of it, and I think it would be incredibly dense for non fans.
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Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 24, 2019 22:02:52 GMT -5
What is this new feature on VL about the Indies like? The premiere covered Gabe Sapolsky and EVOLVE. Some of the names featured are no longer there now (Darby Allin, Fred Yehi, Ethan Page), or have gone to NXT/WWE (Matt Riddle and Keith Lee), so this must have been filmed two years ago. That and the giant FloSlam banners all over clued me in quick it was old footage.Still nice to see Yehi on TV.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 17:23:43 GMT -5
I think they were all filmed in 2017. The one with Mia Yim at SHIMMER was filmed in 2017/
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Post by Big DSR Energy on May 29, 2019 21:05:09 GMT -5
What is this new feature on VL about the Indies like? The MVP episode is on right now. I'm watching it.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on May 29, 2019 21:22:50 GMT -5
What is this new feature on VL about the Indies like? The MVP episode is on right now. I'm watching it. He also said something similar to what Moxley did on Jericho's podcast regarding his WWE run. Crazy how many times this has happened.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on May 29, 2019 21:30:02 GMT -5
The MVP episode is on right now. I'm watching it. He also said something similar to what Moxley did on Jericho's podcast regarding his WWE run. Crazy how many times this has happened. Sami Callihan also talking about creative frustrations and getting out, instead of collecting the "performance center paycheck."
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Post by Big DSR Energy on May 29, 2019 21:45:30 GMT -5
BOOKER!
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