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Post by romanstylesiii on Apr 4, 2019 1:17:01 GMT -5
It just seems so odd. At their peak, they were bigger than ECW. They had better production than ECW. Their global reach far exceeded ECW. Like WWE romanticizing ECW to help sell DVD's, merch, and re-launch the brand makes sense. They were profiting off of it. TNA fans really had little to no appetite to see a large contingent of ECW (who were all over 40) over their much younger roster. Heck, Paul Heyman said if he took over TNA he would get rid of them! It just made such little sense. I get pushing a former WWE/WCW guy who had some brand value, but some of the ECW guys they brought in, who they gave TV time over their own guys, were not famous at all! Like would you rather see AJ Styles vs Joe, or some guy who was on two episodes of ECW on TNN 11 years prior?? TNA literally chose the LATTER! EVEN WWECW DID NOT DO THIS. They quickly established new stars! Shane Douglas was doing these reunions for years and TNA was outdrawing him! Did they look at those SMALLER crowds of guys who could not draw and think "YEAH, THAT IS WHAT WE NEED!" ? TNA did A LOT of stupid things, but romanticizing a brand for which you do not even have the rights to, who you were bigger than is absurd! These guys were all over 40 and less famous than your ACTUAL roster. WHAT ARE YOU DOING??
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Apr 4, 2019 1:55:46 GMT -5
The story is allegedly that TNA did some sort of focus group study where a lot of the participants named ECW as their favorite time in wrestling, so TNA decided to incorporate as much ECW as they could in their programming, hence the EV2.0 Invasion angle and the Hardcore Justice PPV special.
The problem was that the focus group was done in Philadelphia. Because that wouldn't cause any sort of statistical bias or anything.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 4, 2019 2:19:26 GMT -5
ECW commanded loyalty that reached beyond what their numbers would imply.
Do you know why ECW got revived by WWE and not WCW? People actually wanted the former. Despite WCW's much bigger peak, it just... didn't have the same kind of culture behind it, and TNA never got it, either. It's harder to see now, given it's been wrung dry so damn much over the years, but there was a time when Dreamer could beat his chest and sell his sob stories, and people would eat it up with a knife and fork.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 6:18:00 GMT -5
WWE had done it so Dixie wanted to do it. Except in a very Dixie/TNA way.
And Dreamer and his deeply entrenched loyalty to the vague concept of ECW was there so more than willing to pursue it.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 4, 2019 7:04:06 GMT -5
Probably something to do with Tommy Dreamer.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 4, 2019 8:19:01 GMT -5
Because they never got their own identity. At the beginning tna tried to be wcw lite and it failed, then wwe lite and it also failed, from 04 to 06 they had their own identity and appeal but once Russo returned it went to shit.
Then they copy ecw and it gave us one of the worst ppvs ever in Hardcore Justice. Hardcore Justice is only worth to watch to hear Tenay and Taz explain that for legal reasons they cant use the three letters that the fans remember, then they proceed to say ECW multiple times.
But the absolute worst part? That Tommy Dreamer is still lingering on in impact as an active wrestler. He just cries and bleeds.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 4, 2019 8:24:22 GMT -5
ECW commanded loyalty that reached beyond what their numbers would imply. Do you know why ECW got revived by WWE and not WCW? People actually wanted the former. Despite WCW's much bigger peak, it just... didn't have the same kind of culture behind it, and TNA never got it, either. It's harder to see now, given it's been wrung dry so damn much over the years, but there was a time when Dreamer could beat his chest and sell his sob stories, and people would eat it up with a knife and fork. Dreamer said that Bischoff called him and actually wanted to do an ecw invasion, but Heyman said that they couldn’t do it because Vince was crazy, Dreamer said that it didn’t matter if Vince went crazy because they desperately needed the money but Heyman still vetoed the idea. Years later Dreamer learned that Heyman opposed the wcw invasion because he had been receiving money from the wwe for years working as their developmental. To this day Dreamer still resents Heyman for that, because ecw could’ve been sold or saved with other ideas but because Heyman still wanted to get wwe money he ruined those ideas.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Apr 4, 2019 8:41:43 GMT -5
Because they really had the desire to show someone needed a fake Blue Meanie.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 8:57:54 GMT -5
Because they never got their own identity. At the beginning tna tried to be wcw lite and it failed, then wwe lite and it also failed, from 04 to 06 they had their own identity and appeal but once Russo returned it went to shit. Then they copy ecw and it gave us one of the worst ppvs ever in Hardcore Justice. Hardcore Justice is only worth to watch to hear Tenay and Taz explain that for legal reasons they cant use the three letters that the fans remember, then they proceed to say ECW multiple times. But the absolute worst part? That Tommy Dreamer is still lingering on in impact as an active wrestler. He just cries and bleeds. And occasionally farts, but the audio doesn't pick those up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 8:59:29 GMT -5
Because they were desperate for any sort of buzz and they foolishly thought that an ECW rehash where they couldn’t even use any of the names was the way to go would be my guess. A foolproof plan if there ever was one.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 4, 2019 9:55:56 GMT -5
It’s funny that impact always copies someone else, not that long ago they were ripping off Lucha Underground.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 4, 2019 12:09:58 GMT -5
ECW commanded loyalty that reached beyond what their numbers would imply. Do you know why ECW got revived by WWE and not WCW? People actually wanted the former. Despite WCW's much bigger peak, it just... didn't have the same kind of culture behind it, and TNA never got it, either. It's harder to see now, given it's been wrung dry so damn much over the years, but there was a time when Dreamer could beat his chest and sell his sob stories, and people would eat it up with a knife and fork. Dreamer said that Bischoff called him and actually wanted to do an ecw invasion, but Heyman said that they couldn’t do it because Vince was crazy, Dreamer said that it didn’t matter if Vince went crazy because they desperately needed the money but Heyman still vetoed the idea. Years later Dreamer learned that Heyman opposed the wcw invasion because he had been receiving money from the wwe for years working as their developmental. To this day Dreamer still resents Heyman for that, because ecw could’ve been sold or saved with other ideas but because Heyman still wanted to get wwe money he ruined those ideas. Wasn't Heyman getting money legally (meaning some type of contract) from Vince? Or was it just an under the table agreement?
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 4, 2019 12:35:15 GMT -5
Dreamer said that Bischoff called him and actually wanted to do an ecw invasion, but Heyman said that they couldn’t do it because Vince was crazy, Dreamer said that it didn’t matter if Vince went crazy because they desperately needed the money but Heyman still vetoed the idea. Years later Dreamer learned that Heyman opposed the wcw invasion because he had been receiving money from the wwe for years working as their developmental. To this day Dreamer still resents Heyman for that, because ecw could’ve been sold or saved with other ideas but because Heyman still wanted to get wwe money he ruined those ideas. Wasn't Heyman getting money legally (meaning some type of contract) from Vince? Or was it just an under the table agreement? The story according to Heyman (MASSIVE BS ALERT!) is that when WWE signed 2 Cold Scorpio away, ECW had some sort of sponsorship deal he was involved with, so as a make good for costing him that deal Vince agreed to pay ECW a monthly fee. However, pretty much anyone I've ever heard talk about the subject say the money Paul got from Vince way exceeded what he would've gotten from sponsorship deal and that it was covered up handout. Plus, there's also the $800k "loan" (could be wrong on the figure) WWE made to ECW in 2000 when they were in trouble. Although, that wasn't out of good will, it was so they'd be one of the biggest creditors and have one of the strongest claims to the ECW assets when it folded. EDIT: From the words of Heyman himself, I believe from his My Name Is Paul Heyman DVD
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 4, 2019 12:39:59 GMT -5
Wasn't Heyman getting money legally (meaning some type of contract) from Vince? Or was it just an under the table agreement? The story according to Heyman (MASSIVE BS ALERT!) is that when WWE signed 2 Cold Scorpio away, ECW had some sort of sponsorship deal he was involved with, so as a make good for costing him that deal Vince agreed to pay ECW a monthly fee. However, pretty much anyone I've ever heard talk about the subject say the money Paul got from Vince way exceeded what he would've gotten from sponsorship deal and that it was covered up handout. Plus, there's also the $800k "loan" (could be wrong on the figure) WWE made to ECW in 2000 when they were in trouble. Although, that wasn't out of good will, it was so they'd be one of the biggest creditors and have one of the strongest claims to the ECW assets when it folded. Yea, figured it had to be something of a decent amount in the "early days" before they belly flopped because Heyman wouldn't have been afraid to take a chance but knowing he took a handout from Vince, he wasn't trying to risk f***ing that up
The later loan was def a way to get them in line for future assets tho or at worst Heyman gives them the first option to buy if he had the opportunity to sell it
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 4, 2019 12:40:47 GMT -5
Dreamer said that Bischoff called him and actually wanted to do an ecw invasion, but Heyman said that they couldn’t do it because Vince was crazy, Dreamer said that it didn’t matter if Vince went crazy because they desperately needed the money but Heyman still vetoed the idea. Years later Dreamer learned that Heyman opposed the wcw invasion because he had been receiving money from the wwe for years working as their developmental. To this day Dreamer still resents Heyman for that, because ecw could’ve been sold or saved with other ideas but because Heyman still wanted to get wwe money he ruined those ideas. Wasn't Heyman getting money legally (meaning some type of contract) from Vince? Or was it just an under the table agreement? Under the table wink wink.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 13:09:03 GMT -5
every year it's another flavor of shit thrown at the wall
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 4, 2019 13:30:22 GMT -5
The same reason they're building around so many Lucha Underground talent and LU-style segments right now, despite having vastly more name recognition and viewership (well, at least a couple TV networks back). They've identified a mostly-defunct cult product that was able to build a distinctive brand despite existing in WWE's shadow, and they think capitalizing off of it will give their own show a niche beyond being a second-rate WWE.
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson 🥃 on Apr 4, 2019 13:38:50 GMT -5
It's because they rarely let their own ideas get green-lit and lately, when they do, we get shit sandwiches like Aron Rex and Claire Lynch,
It's literally them thinking they can be Wal-Mart if they carry Wal-Mart brands or cheap knock-offs, but their products are either recalled, expired, or banned in 33 states and 6 countries.
You've been a dumpster fire, embrace being a dumpster fire. You're now Dollar Tree, embrace being Dollar Tree.
Impact, before you know it, you can be KMart and embrace being KMart....
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Post by cabbageboy on Apr 4, 2019 13:56:59 GMT -5
I'd say it was Tommy Dreamer's involvement if we're talking about 2010. At that point he got in Dixie's ear and they did the whole EV 2.0 angle. It was a lousy PPV though since WWE owned the rights to the actual ECW, forcing a bunch of silly edits and name changes.
But if we're going back earlier than that, there was always a deep amount of ECW blood running through TNA's veins. Jerry Lynn basically helped make AJ Styles in the early days of the company. New Jack did some wacky stuff in early TNA. Shane Douglas and Raven had a vicious feud, with Mitchell's crew coming after Raven. Sabu veered in and out of the company. If you're TNA in the early days, a lot of ECW cast off guys had some name value. Those are the guys out there not under contract circa 2002-03.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 14:41:50 GMT -5
Impact has always been that parasite it attempts to feed off of other ideas...and never develop its own identity.
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