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Post by flowercity on Apr 8, 2019 15:05:49 GMT -5
Last night, to me, was one of the worst shows ever strictly due to length. I’ve stayed out of threads because I don’t want to rain on everyone’s parade. I seem to be in the minority. They need to shorten every single aspect of the show. Guys like McIntyre and Shane do not need entrances that last 5 minutes. Going to two shows will weaken the entire concept.
But this is WWE now. It is not a matter of quality. It is all about quantity. And my utmost fear is that it will continue since last night seemed to be universally praised because of match results.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 8, 2019 15:06:19 GMT -5
Including Pre show, last night was what, 7 1/2 hours?
Cut it down to 5 hours ( 1 hour pre-show, 4 hour PPV) would see a vast improvement in terms of crowd/viewer burnout.
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Post by rocnsoc88 on Apr 8, 2019 15:11:50 GMT -5
Of course it should.
WrestleMania should feel epic, so I understand the desire to make the show epic in length. But to go 7 and a half hours and to end past midnight is absolutely indefensible. And it hurt the main event too. The crowd was just too tired and worn out to get all that invested. These 7+ hour Wrestlemanias started at 32, and we’re now 1-3 when it comes to WrestleMania main events not having hot crowds because the people there are just so tired and restless (Roman vs. Undertaker was the only main event with a hot crowd in the last 4 years). I was most invested in the Kofi Kingston match, and I’m actually thankful that that match was in the middle of the show and not the end so it could feel more special.
That says it all really. That this has gotten so out of hand that the WrestleMania main event - something that should be the proudest accomplishment of a pro wrestler’s career - is now getting to be considered a “death slot” of sorts because you have to perform in front of a crowd that’s been sitting there for 7 hours.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 8, 2019 15:16:42 GMT -5
The only way that isn't taking food out of people's mouths is to make it two days.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 15:19:55 GMT -5
Before we continue this discussion I have to ask something for the long-time fans who were watching when the amount of WrestleManias was still in single digits: I heard that those WrestleManias had intermissions. How long were the intermissions? That could be a decider in how to go forward if they want long events in the future. I wanna say they were between 15-30 minutes (30 seems high but my memory's fuzzy). I believe they ran video footage during the intermission, as they would for the pre-PPV countdown half hour event, along with the countdown clock. Mind you, these were intermissions for events that had a high match count and low match duration which packed WrestleManias whose run time was a couple hours less time than WM35 was. Cut match lengths or cut the total amount of matches. You can do filler but limit it as much as possible; don't give every match a 3-5 minute promo video.
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Post by Main Eventer on Apr 8, 2019 15:25:52 GMT -5
Make it a two day show. 4 hours each.
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Post by Aceorton on Apr 8, 2019 15:38:02 GMT -5
This was the first WrestleMania that I watched in full and live as it was happening since 2002, and I was stunned at how out of control they've gotten on time. Used to be, way back, that 12 matches was about the cap, with one world title match, one IC match and one for the tag belts, and that got you a three-hour show, with most matches in the five-minute range. If you weren't a big enough star to get a real match, you either got stuck in a battle royal or did a quickie match on Heat or you just got left out. Which is fine. And not everything on the main show had to be a 10-minute-plus showdown for the ages. How many finishers were kicked out of last night? Would be an interesting stat. Well-worn territory, I'm sure, but I blame the length on: - Too many titles that you have to account for
- Part-timer/legend matches (neither HHH's nor Angle's matches were needed yesterday and brought down the overall quality and pace)
- Padding with predictable appearances by past stars (Hogan, Michaels, etc.) and useless filler like the R-Truth/Carmella dance break because someone thinks that equals a "WrestleMania moment"
- Ridiculously long entrances
- The idea that a match should be either a super-fast shocker or an exhausting war (mostly exhausting wars), without much in the middle
- No time caps from a PPV carrier to worry about in the streaming Network era, so there's no forced discipline to make cuts
I liked this show a lot, but eventually it just starts to suffocate itself. Imagine WM3 done the way this one was done, with two more sets of tag titles, a U.S. title bout, a Universal title bout, a cruiserweight title bout, two battle royals filled with people like Frenchy Martin and Tony Garea, and a grudge match between Gorilla Monsoon and Ernie Ladd that gets more time than any other match.
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rrg251
Don Corleone
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Post by rrg251 on Apr 8, 2019 16:08:04 GMT -5
Agreed that 12:30 was too late for the show to end. It was inconsiderate to fans who had work and school in the morning (which fortunately I didn't), and that's without getting into the mass transit delays that kept me from leaving what was essentially the arena's parking lot until after 3am, some time of which was spent outside in the rain.
Having said that, I'm not sure I'm ready to say that the issue was necessarily length. I got through the show just fine, without a bathroom break or anything. My suggestion would be to just start it earlier in the future so it can go the appropriate length while still letting fans out at a reasonable time.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Apr 8, 2019 16:08:38 GMT -5
If I was a wrestler I wouldn't want to be in the actual main event of mania anymore. Performing to a tired crowd sucks
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 8, 2019 16:23:55 GMT -5
Yeah, 7 1/2 hours is no good, especially when your end time is after midnight. If you're going to run that long then start earlier, but frankly you shouldn't be running that long at all. I didn't watch any of it last night because I was already toast from a long weekend of different wrestling shows (plus work, ugh), but when I'd check it out the past couple of years with friends I'd be sitting there by the end ready to crawl out of my skin because I couldn't stand sitting through it anymore.
The most a card should really go for, and this is pushing it, is 4 1/2 - 5 hours, and even that should only be approached once a year. Running so many lengthy matches while also running segments, video packages, PR stuff, etc. is going to murder any crowd regardless of match quality.
I'd go with this: if you're going to run so many long matches, then don't book matches that don't have a real reason for existing/don't have some significant build behind them. From what I'm seeing the Styles/Orton, Reigns/McIntyre, and a couple of the other matches wouldn't have looked out of place on Raw or SD - they may have had some build, but not much. In that case? Don't book 'em. Don't force there to be over a dozen matches when a bunch of them are just kind of "there"; that was ok back in the old days when the spectacle of seeing two name stars face one another on TV was enough to generate some interest, but today you're giving those matches away for free each week, anyway, so there's no reason to extend the show so much for no good reason.
If you really want to get some of these guys on the card, anyway, then book more 6, 8, or even 10 man/woman matches with some interesting hooks to them - pair up some different Raw or SD guys (e.g. how about Styles/Reigns/someone else vs. Orton/McIntyre/someone else?), add some gimmick stipulations, emphasize everyone getting their crowd popping spots in, just give them some kind of purpose that couldn't be accomplished on a normal episode of Raw. Fill Mania up with title matches and only the hottest, best built feuds, and let the rest be a bit more for fun and not dragging on well into the next day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 18:01:16 GMT -5
If the long shows aren’t going away any time soon why can’t they start the show at 5 or 6. Im in central time so the run time doesn’t bother me as much but ending at 12:30 is a bit nuts.
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Post by Eddie Brock on Apr 8, 2019 18:30:04 GMT -5
In an ideal world WrestleMania would go back to being a 4 hour show and having a 1 hour pre-show. 11 matches only with 2 being on the pre-show. All other PPVs that aren't Mania should be 3 hours and have a 30 minute pre-show and Mania would be the only 4 hour sho
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Post by Citizen Snips on Apr 8, 2019 18:33:20 GMT -5
At least half of the matches would have been fine on Raw or Smackdown.
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Perfect Timing
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Perfect Timing on Apr 8, 2019 18:45:31 GMT -5
We could of done without Corbin,Elias and Smackdown title match. I didn't watch the pre show so the show didn't seem as long for me as it did for others but it did feel like some of the matches didn't deserve to be as long as they were.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Apr 8, 2019 18:54:18 GMT -5
I'd make Wrestlemania 3 1/2 hours long with maybe a couple of dark matches 30 minutes before. So 4 hours in total. Tighten the show up and give people a more digestible show instead of a 7 1/2 hour grind.
Unfortunately "less is more" has never been one of Vince's life mottos!
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 8, 2019 19:00:39 GMT -5
It should be a solid 4 hours
As much talent as they got, some people are going to have to be "tough luck losers" if they aren't involved in anything and can't get on the show
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 8, 2019 19:05:55 GMT -5
Dear god yes. Last night was 7hrs 25min. That’s f***ing insane. That’s The friggin’ Star Wars Trilogy with 30 min intermissions between movies!!
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Post by Starshine on Apr 8, 2019 19:15:53 GMT -5
Or is it not long enough?
Hear me out! Now a big part of the problem with this years Mania seemed to stem from the fact the show ended at a point where most of the public transport had ceased operations for the night. Also, the other big problem people bring up is that the fans get tired by the end of these 8 hour shifts shows. It seems to come from WWE insisting that they cram as much talent on the single card as possible. But I think I have a solution that will satisfy all three...
Now, some people have suggested doing a consecutive double night event. Concern is whether such a thing is financially feasible. Ticket prices would increase, because operational costs would at least double. I not so confident how sound a plan that is considering the large expense Wrestlemania already is. So now we come back to my obviously great plan, make Mania even longer. But you retort: "that's crazy talk, a lot of the fans would fall asleep!" To which I reply: "of course, it's all a part of the plan."
What I'm suggesting is that WWE run their Wrestlemania shows like a long haul flight, and make the matches stretch out at least until the next morning. They would have to plan out the card, and moderate the lighting so that there is a specific stretch of time where the lights and music are turned down, while some bullshit 205Live and NXT UK matches only like 5 people care about would be taking place. The rest of the crowd would be given an opportunity to rest up, take a lengthy nap, and wake up hours later feeling refreshed and re-energized for the big time matches still to come. Hopefully the insomniacs in the crowd would get by on these nothing matches. But I'm willing to bet if you endure a stretch of matches involving guys like Mike Kanellis and Josheph Connors for hours on end, no condition will keep you awake for long. Trust me, it's fullproof. Even viewers at home would be given an opportunity to get some much needed shut eye.
And that is my amazing plan to save Wrestlemania. Thank you.
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Post by BatPunk on Apr 8, 2019 19:20:20 GMT -5
Either that or make the Mania show go over two days.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 8, 2019 19:24:16 GMT -5
Yes, but we have to be willing to let them make the sacrifices to do that. It won’t be the yearly half hour Triple H wankery that gets cut or shortened, it’ll be midcard titles and beloved midcard wrestlers.
Like, I picture the outcry when Asuka was relegated from championship match to battle royal two weeks out... Imagine if it was from championship match to not booked at all?
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