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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 10, 2019 18:37:24 GMT -5
If they wanted Alexa to go out and squash someone, they should have used a local jobber. It would fit Alexa's character to brag about that (just like the IIconics did), and reiterate her heel credentials. No need to job out a known babyface. But I just don't think people in the back see Bayley as marketable (which is crazy, considering her established appeal to young girls), and I think her weaknesses, which didn't matter in NXT, are a much bigger issue on Raw - Promos and the way she carries herself. She just seems like someone lacking in confidence, and Vince isn't likely to be interested in someone like that. But, a year ago we'd have been saying very similar things about Becky Lynch, so things can change in a big way. I don't know to me Becky has always come off as pretty confident even when she was the goofy babyface. On the mic she always came off like someone who was believing in what she was saying. Bayley has always come off as very awkward and unsure of herself whenever she talks. I think the lack of confidence is something that's going to hold her back even if she gets a gimmick change and gets a chance to run with the ball like Becky did. Not being as conventionally attractive as most of the other women is probably something that will hold her back too.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Apr 10, 2019 19:13:39 GMT -5
If they wanted Alexa to go out and squash someone, they should have used a local jobber. It would fit Alexa's character to brag about that (just like the IIconics did), and reiterate her heel credentials. No need to job out a known babyface. But I just don't think people in the back see Bayley as marketable (which is crazy, considering her established appeal to young girls), and I think her weaknesses, which didn't matter in NXT, are a much bigger issue on Raw - Promos and the way she carries herself. She just seems like someone lacking in confidence, and Vince isn't likely to be interested in someone like that. But, a year ago we'd have been saying very similar things about Becky Lynch, so things can change in a big way. I don't know to me Becky has always come off as pretty confident even when she was the goofy babyface. On the mic she always came off like someone who was believing in what she was saying. Bayley has always come off as very awkward and unsure of herself whenever she talks. I think the lack of confidence is something that's going to hold her back even if she gets a gimmick change and gets a chance to run with the ball like Becky did. Not being as conventionally attractive as most of the other women is probably something that will hold her back too. Saying conventional doesn't change that you're the one making this comparison. Especially of "most" of the roster, I find this an outrageous claim, Bayley is bae. It's fair to say Vince may not think so, and look is a topic, I just disagree there. On comparing to Becky, she's great too, but they have different styles. I do think there's a bit of endearing awkwardness to Becky's promos, even now, and it makes it feel authentic. On Bayley, her promo style is very different, and if it doesn't resonate with you I can see how you'd look at it that way. For me her promos are often pretty great, she to me seems authentic, and I like her again endearing bit of awkwardness, with babyface fire there. Like say Mick Foley, or some of the earlier Daniel Bryan babyface promos. Though more soft spoken. Anyways, I think she's good on the mic. We have a soft-spoken less known for mic work WWE champion on Smackdown, it can be a change of pace. And I think she's one of the best in the ring, which doesn't hurt. In general I think lack of a reaction in her case is down to bad booking, some really bad feuds, it can be tough to react when somebody is buried a bit. So I'd like to see Bayley get pushed again, since fans do still care about her, and she has so much potential.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Apr 10, 2019 19:19:36 GMT -5
Bayley is never going to be used properly while Vince is in charge. Her appearance (figure/face/etc.), while very attractive to many (myself included) does not fit what Vince does not find appealing. He's an old man who peaked in the 80's. He likes tall blonde sticks with large enhanced breasts. His hand was forced with Becky. He's not going to just push Bayley properly because she's talented. The thing is, the “tall stick blondes with big breasts” mindset isn’t as prominent as it was once. Sure, you’ve got blondes being pushed, but they’re talented and can hold their own. Charlotte can hold her own in the ring, Alexa can hold her own on the mic, Mandy can hold her own as a powerhouse. Just because they’re attractive blondes doesn’t make their pushed automatically unwarranted and a detriment to others. On top of this, you’ve also got Dana, Liv, Summer Rae, and even Mandy who aren’t getting a semblance of a push. And yes, Becky is the exception, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only exception. AJ Lee was pushed to the top of the cards as well. As was Jacklyn when she defeated Stephanie for the women’s title. Stephanie beat Jacqueline for the title, lost it to Lita.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 19:32:04 GMT -5
The thing is, the “tall stick blondes with big breasts” mindset isn’t as prominent as it was once. Sure, you’ve got blondes being pushed, but they’re talented and can hold their own. Charlotte can hold her own in the ring, Alexa can hold her own on the mic, Mandy can hold her own as a powerhouse. Just because they’re attractive blondes doesn’t make their pushed automatically unwarranted and a detriment to others. On top of this, you’ve also got Dana, Liv, Summer Rae, and even Mandy who aren’t getting a semblance of a push. And yes, Becky is the exception, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only exception. AJ Lee was pushed to the top of the cards as well. As was Jacklyn when she defeated Stephanie for the women’s title. Stephanie beat Jacqueline for the title, lost it to Lita. Ah, I’ll replace my statement with Lita then.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 10, 2019 19:45:12 GMT -5
I don't know to me Becky has always come off as pretty confident even when she was the goofy babyface. On the mic she always came off like someone who was believing in what she was saying. Bayley has always come off as very awkward and unsure of herself whenever she talks. I think the lack of confidence is something that's going to hold her back even if she gets a gimmick change and gets a chance to run with the ball like Becky did. Not being as conventionally attractive as most of the other women is probably something that will hold her back too. Saying conventional doesn't change that you're the one making this comparison. Especially of "most" of the roster, I find this an outrageous claim, Bayley is bae. It's fair to say Vince may not think so, and look is a topic, I just disagree there. On comparing to Becky, she's great too, but they have different styles. I do think there's a bit of endearing awkwardness to Becky's promos, even now, and it makes it feel authentic. On Bayley, her promo style is very different, and if it doesn't resonate with you I can see how you'd look at it that way. For me her promos are often pretty great, she to me seems authentic, and I like her again endearing bit of awkwardness, with babyface fire there. Like say Mick Foley, or some of the earlier Daniel Bryan babyface promos. Though more soft spoken. Anyways, I think she's good on the mic. We have a soft-spoken less known for mic work WWE champion on Smackdown, it can be a change of pace. And I think she's one of the best in the ring, which doesn't hurt. In general I think lack of a reaction in her case is down to bad booking, some really bad feuds, it can be tough to react when somebody is buried a bit. So I'd like to see Bayley get pushed again, since fans do still care about her, and she has so much potential. Being soft spoken is fine if you still come off as articulate and well spoken. Jake Roberts is a perfect example of a guy who was soft spoken but excellent on the mic. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem like the case at all with Bayley. I don't know to me she just comes as more cringe to me then endearing. As far as her looks I've seen a lot of people like yourself who find her attractive and then there's a lot of other people like me who she doesn't really do much for as I just find her to be kind of plain face wise even though I think she's got a pretty good shape. I have some friends who like wrestling and think she's attractive but even they say "in a different way" which is not something you would say of someone who is conventionally good looking.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Apr 10, 2019 19:52:28 GMT -5
Saying conventional doesn't change that you're the one making this comparison. Especially of "most" of the roster, I find this an outrageous claim, Bayley is bae. It's fair to say Vince may not think so, and look is a topic, I just disagree there. On comparing to Becky, she's great too, but they have different styles. I do think there's a bit of endearing awkwardness to Becky's promos, even now, and it makes it feel authentic. On Bayley, her promo style is very different, and if it doesn't resonate with you I can see how you'd look at it that way. For me her promos are often pretty great, she to me seems authentic, and I like her again endearing bit of awkwardness, with babyface fire there. Like say Mick Foley, or some of the earlier Daniel Bryan babyface promos. Though more soft spoken. Anyways, I think she's good on the mic. We have a soft-spoken less known for mic work WWE champion on Smackdown, it can be a change of pace. And I think she's one of the best in the ring, which doesn't hurt. In general I think lack of a reaction in her case is down to bad booking, some really bad feuds, it can be tough to react when somebody is buried a bit. So I'd like to see Bayley get pushed again, since fans do still care about her, and she has so much potential. Being soft spoken is fine if you still come off as articulate and well spoken. Jake Roberts is a perfect example of a guy who was soft spoken but excellent on the mic. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem like the case at all with Bayley. I don't know to me she just comes as more cringe to me then endearing. As far as her looks I've seen a lot of people like yourself who find her attractive and then there's a lot of other people like me who she doesn't really do much for as I just find her to be kind of plain face wise even though I think she's got a pretty good shape. I have some friends who like wrestling and think she's attractive but even they say "in a different way" which is not something you would say of someone who is conventionally good looking. There are people who say Alexa's face isn't attractive as well. I don't think what your friends have said about Bayley proves anything. Nobody who has watched wrestling with me has ever said such things about Bayley, there's some anecdotal balance for you. Maybe in the context of WWE I can roll with what you're saying to a point, but as a statement in reality, in the world, what you're saying is not true in any way. You're trying to sell that Bayley is simply not conventionally attractive, and that this thing you're saying is somehow somewhat objective? You're over the line, to quote the Big Lebowski. Plus I think conventionally attractive is a loaded term anyway. On the mic, Bayley doesn't click for you, does click for me. Everything she does, all around, Bayley has got "it", she's something special. And whether or not you agree, it doesn't make sense to unceremoniously have this former champ and upper tier wrestler in her division lose in the quick way she did there.
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Post by robferatu on Apr 10, 2019 22:40:25 GMT -5
I put all of the blame for Bayley not transitioning from NXT to the main roster fluidly on the WWE creative, and not her. I think we're all aware and understanding, that there's just some talents that are better suited for NXT than the main roster, but Bayley to me, was a wrestler that destined to be the female version of John Cena, or the Rock.
However, from winning to Women's Championship on a random "Raw" in February-to-"counseling angle with Sasha Banks" last Spring, the WWE has simply never done right by her since she's been on the main roster, and more often than not portrayed her as a gullible fool. "If" they would have went about things differently, and not killed her face build all those years ago, we could very well be looking at a landscape where you have "Stone Cold" Becky Lynch headlining a "WrestleMania" against "Doctor of Huganomics" Bayley.
In hindsight, and at the time, I really, really think how she came off in her feud with Alexa Bliss completely crushed her credibility as a top face in the female division, and I just don't think she ever recovered from that and in-so, her moment passed her by.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 22:48:11 GMT -5
I put all of the blame for Bayley not transitioning from NXT to the main roster fluidly on the WWE creative, and not her. I think we're all aware and understanding, that there's just some talents that are better suited for NXT than the main roster, but Bayley to me, was a wrestler that destined to be the female version of John Cena, or the Rock. However, from winning to Women's Championship on a random "Raw" in February-to-"counseling angle with Sasha Banks" last Spring, the WWE has simply never done right by her since she's been on the main roster, and more often than not portrayed her as a gullible fool. "If" they would have went about things differently, and not killed her face build all those years ago, we could very well be looking at a landscape where you have "Stone Cold" Becky Lynch headlining a "WrestleMania" against "Doctor of Huganomics" Bayley. In hindsight, and at the time, I really, really think how she came off in her feud with Alexa Bliss completely crushed her credibility as a top face in the female division, and I just don't think she ever recovered from that and in-so, her moment passed her by. Something specifically about her booking with Alexa that they just keep making worse for her. The Charlotte and Becky feuds were pretty poorly written but they still eventually navigated to conclusions that seemed to work with the audience. With Alexa they've had her talk too much, do stupid things, lose in stupid ways. Bayley frantically trying to cheat out a win after like two minutes of wrestling with Alexa Bliss after being a conquering tag team championship caliber babyface for however long was such a weird call to make. So strange that I have to assume that Bayley just mistakenly held on to the ropes during that pin as some unfortunate instinctive move to keep her balance or something, because it just wouldn't make sense to have actually written her to behave like that.
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Apr 10, 2019 22:51:43 GMT -5
I put all of the blame for Bayley not transitioning from NXT to the main roster fluidly on the WWE creative, and not her. I think we're all aware and understanding, that there's just some talents that are better suited for NXT than the main roster, but Bayley to me, was a wrestler that destined to be the female version of John Cena, or the Rock. However, from winning to Women's Championship on a random "Raw" in February-to-"counseling angle with Sasha Banks" last Spring, the WWE has simply never done right by her since she's been on the main roster, and more often than not portrayed her as a gullible fool. "If" they would have went about things differently, and not killed her face build all those years ago, we could very well be looking at a landscape where you have "Stone Cold" Becky Lynch headlining a "WrestleMania" against "Doctor of Huganomics" Bayley. In hindsight, and at the time, I really, really think how she came off in her feud with Alexa Bliss completely crushed her credibility as a top face in the female division, and I just don't think she ever recovered from that and in-so, her moment passed her by. Alexa vs Bayley really should have been a great feud. It's an easy story to tell, but they took it in the weirdest direction. Did Bayley ever have a winning moment in that feud? I can't remember one. From then on any time they had a chance to do something with Bayley, Creative just waved as it passed by. Bayley gets injured, she comes back big and lays out Nia. A week later, she's eating the pin in a 5 way title match. She lays out Sasha to a MASSIVE crowd reaction. Literally the next segment, they ruin it by sending her and Sasha to couples counseling. They then do nothing with those segments. I really think she'd benefit most from moving over to Smackdown. More laid back atmosphere, fresh start. Depending on other moves, she might have a clearer path to becoming credible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 23:34:18 GMT -5
The feud with Alexa f***ed her up up, but they had a chance to fix Bayley when she attacked Sasha to that huge pop. A face Bayley with a lot more edge feuding with a heel Sasha could've been great.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 10, 2019 23:40:16 GMT -5
The feud with Alexa f***ed her up up, but they had a chance to fix Bayley when she attacked Sasha to that huge pop. A face Bayley with a lot more edge feuding with a heel Sasha could've been great. hell she started getting some reaction again when they did go back to doing the Sasha and Bayley friendship thing... but it just kept going... and going... and going... with Sasha clearly setting up a heel turn that just FLAT OUT WOULD NOT HAPPEN. it finally looked like it was going somewhere finally... but NOPE! after that they did the counseling thing and then they continued again....
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Post by masterthought on Apr 11, 2019 0:58:02 GMT -5
WrestleMania was great, props to WWE for that, and some nice moments this week on Raw and SD. This segment though, what on Earth are they doing. Just appalling. It's like a segment from some of the worst booked days of WWE, it's madness. I didn't like it when Alexa beat Becky clean years ago etc either by the way. Why would the brave Bayley get jobbed out quickly to the female Miz? I like Alexa and Miz, just saying, this kind of booking doesn't help anybody. It should've been a lot more effort and time than that for Alexa to be able to beat Bayley. And personally I think Bayley is underutilized, push her! She rules! This was a crime, and I am appalled. What do you even do with this? Where does Bayley go from here? At the height of her kayfabe power Bayley could beat Becky, and certainly Alexa, my immersion here is in jeopardy. This match may have destroyed kayfabe, and killed rock and roll. Anyways, I didn't like it. Contrary to popular belief Alexa never beat Becky clean in her career(pin or submission). The closest Alexa came was when she won the title in a tables match where even then needed to do an eye rake before winning and putting Becky through a table. Alexa's Smackdown booking wasn't actually that bad and only won once clean her whole SD run and still got over. It wasn't until she went to RAW she became OP and started winning clean more and not cheating like a good heel does. Alexa with her size should never be beating former champions clean(Micke,Sasha and Bayley). It helps no one but Alexa and it makes no sense since Ronda squashed Alexa when they wrestled but now Alexa can beat Bayley clean in 4 minutes. WTF? Charlotte or Nia not squashing Alexa in their matches was comical. Heel Charlotte makes sense to beat people sometimes clean because she's huge and it's realistic. Alexa is the smallest and isn't great in the ring and isn't jacked. Mic skill doesn't make you a dominator. Alexa should be a underdog heel or face. That's why she should always cheat as a heel because she is little and not imposing.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 11, 2019 1:19:48 GMT -5
WrestleMania was great, props to WWE for that, and some nice moments this week on Raw and SD. This segment though, what on Earth are they doing. Just appalling. It's like a segment from some of the worst booked days of WWE, it's madness. I didn't like it when Alexa beat Becky clean years ago etc either by the way. Why would the brave Bayley get jobbed out quickly to the female Miz? I like Alexa and Miz, just saying, this kind of booking doesn't help anybody. It should've been a lot more effort and time than that for Alexa to be able to beat Bayley. And personally I think Bayley is underutilized, push her! She rules! This was a crime, and I am appalled. What do you even do with this? Where does Bayley go from here? At the height of her kayfabe power Bayley could beat Becky, and certainly Alexa, my immersion here is in jeopardy. This match may have destroyed kayfabe, and killed rock and roll. Anyways, I didn't like it. Contrary to popular belief Alexa never beat Becky clean in her career(pin or submission). The closest Alexa came was when she won the title in a tables match where even then needed to do an eye rake before winning and putting Becky through a table. Alexa's Smackdown booking wasn't actually that bad and only won once clean her whole SD run and still got over. It wasn't until she went to RAW she became OP and started winning clean more and not cheating like a good heel does. Alexa with her size should never be beating former champions clean(Micke,Sasha and Bayley). It helps no one but Alexa and it makes no sense since Ronda squashed Alexa when they wrestled but now Alexa can beat Bayley clean in 4 minutes. WTF? Charlotte or Nia not squashing Alexa in their matches was comical. Heel Charlotte makes sense to beat people sometimes clean because she's huge and it's realistic. Alexa is the smallest and isn't great in the ring and isn't jacked. Mic skill doesn't make you a dominator. Alexa should be a underdog heel or face. That's why she should always cheat as a heel because she is little and not imposing. I disagree with one point of your thing Alexa is pretty damned built. my brother who stopped watching wrestling actually pointed it out to me. It's deceptive because she's tiny but if you actually like look at her arms they are really defined and pretty dang big. It's honestly why they thought the knockout punch would work for her... I mean it didn't because she's tiny... but I could at least see the logic behind it. (though again if she had the hand things on they could have played that up.) Another point that's strange with her booking is despite coming off as overpowered she generally has a losing record... since they book her to lose on television pretty consistently ... but then had her win on PPV.
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Post by SparkyPlugg on Apr 11, 2019 2:24:28 GMT -5
A heel turn is the only thing that could possibly save her now. Honestly though I think she’d struggle pulling it off. She’s the definition of bland.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Apr 11, 2019 3:57:56 GMT -5
What exactly does Alexa have going for her beyond her looks?
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Apr 11, 2019 5:10:11 GMT -5
People putting the blame 100℅ on creative when their not the ones botching every other match and cutting some of the worst promos in recent history.
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schma
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Post by schma on Apr 11, 2019 5:10:12 GMT -5
Contrary to popular belief Alexa never beat Becky clean in her career(pin or submission). The closest Alexa came was when she won the title in a tables match where even then needed to do an eye rake before winning and putting Becky through a table. Alexa's Smackdown booking wasn't actually that bad and only won once clean her whole SD run and still got over. It wasn't until she went to RAW she became OP and started winning clean more and not cheating like a good heel does. Alexa with her size should never be beating former champions clean(Micke,Sasha and Bayley). It helps no one but Alexa and it makes no sense since Ronda squashed Alexa when they wrestled but now Alexa can beat Bayley clean in 4 minutes. WTF? Charlotte or Nia not squashing Alexa in their matches was comical. Heel Charlotte makes sense to beat people sometimes clean because she's huge and it's realistic. Alexa is the smallest and isn't great in the ring and isn't jacked. Mic skill doesn't make you a dominator. Alexa should be a underdog heel or face. That's why she should always cheat as a heel because she is little and not imposing. I disagree with one point of your thing Alexa is pretty damned built. my brother who stopped watching wrestling actually pointed it out to me. It's deceptive because she's tiny but if you actually like look at her arms they are really defined and pretty dang big. It's honestly why they thought the knockout punch would work for her... I mean it didn't because she's tiny... but I could at least see the logic behind it. (though again if she had the hand things on they could have played that up.) Another point that's strange with her booking is despite coming off as overpowered she generally has a losing record... since they book her to lose on television pretty consistently ... but then had her win on PPV. I don't see it. I've heard several people talk about Alexa being a weightlifter and really strong but I've never really noticed any particular definition in her arms. I would say Lacey and Becky both have her beat in that department. I always thought her punch as a finisher was absolute garbage because as you said, she's freaking tiny.
I did cringe this week when looking at the results and saw that Alexa killed Bayley again.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 11, 2019 5:28:18 GMT -5
I disagree with one point of your thing Alexa is pretty damned built. my brother who stopped watching wrestling actually pointed it out to me. It's deceptive because she's tiny but if you actually like look at her arms they are really defined and pretty dang big. It's honestly why they thought the knockout punch would work for her... I mean it didn't because she's tiny... but I could at least see the logic behind it. (though again if she had the hand things on they could have played that up.) Another point that's strange with her booking is despite coming off as overpowered she generally has a losing record... since they book her to lose on television pretty consistently ... but then had her win on PPV. I don't see it. I've heard several people talk about Alexa being a weightlifter and really strong but I've never really noticed any particular definition in her arms. I would say Lacey and Becky both have her beat in that department. I always thought her punch as a finisher was absolute garbage because as you said, she's freaking tiny.
I did cringe this week when looking at the results and saw that Alexa killed Bayley again.
Alexa is a tiny girl with an athletic build however almost all the women on the roster have athletic builds. She's built like a gymnast (very short with thick legs) which makes sense as she was a gymnast before becoming a wrestler however that has more to do with agility/balance then strength. Being an athlete I'm sure she has some strength to her but compared to most of the women on the roster from what I've seen from her in the ring I would say she's probably one of least strongest girls on the roster. Zelina and Liv Morgan are probably the only two I would say she's physically stronger then.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 11, 2019 10:27:05 GMT -5
Saying conventional doesn't change that you're the one making this comparison. Especially of "most" of the roster, I find this an outrageous claim, Bayley is bae. It's fair to say Vince may not think so, and look is a topic, I just disagree there. On comparing to Becky, she's great too, but they have different styles. I do think there's a bit of endearing awkwardness to Becky's promos, even now, and it makes it feel authentic. On Bayley, her promo style is very different, and if it doesn't resonate with you I can see how you'd look at it that way. For me her promos are often pretty great, she to me seems authentic, and I like her again endearing bit of awkwardness, with babyface fire there. Like say Mick Foley, or some of the earlier Daniel Bryan babyface promos. Though more soft spoken. Anyways, I think she's good on the mic. We have a soft-spoken less known for mic work WWE champion on Smackdown, it can be a change of pace. And I think she's one of the best in the ring, which doesn't hurt. In general I think lack of a reaction in her case is down to bad booking, some really bad feuds, it can be tough to react when somebody is buried a bit. So I'd like to see Bayley get pushed again, since fans do still care about her, and she has so much potential. Being soft spoken is fine if you still come off as articulate and well spoken. Jake Roberts is a perfect example of a guy who was soft spoken but excellent on the mic. I'm sorry but that doesn't seem like the case at all with Bayley. I don't know to me she just comes as more cringe to me then endearing. As far as her looks I've seen a lot of people like yourself who find her attractive and then there's a lot of other people like me who she doesn't really do much for as I just find her to be kind of plain face wise even though I think she's got a pretty good shape. I have some friends who like wrestling and think she's attractive but even they say "in a different way" which is not something you would say of someone who is conventionally good looking. Where do you live, and what sort of women do you see on a daily basis where Bayley is considered not conventionally good looking? Charlotte doesn’t do it for me, way too much obvious surgery, but I’d never try and claim she isn’t attractive
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 10:39:47 GMT -5
What exactly does Alexa have going for her beyond her looks? Other than being charismatic, a good talker, selling a lot of merch, being a total sweetheart in fan interactions, and having an inspirational background, not much.
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