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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on May 17, 2019 14:38:55 GMT -5
Not until they come up with a wacky mascot roaming through the crowd that no one talks about will they have truely turned. What do you call No Way Jose? |
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 17, 2019 14:46:21 GMT -5
It has happened late 01 and even more 02-03. When they brought back the likes of Flair, Hogan, Piper, Goldberg, and the NWO. Later Eric Bischoff. The same guys Vince was just talking about over the hill stuff and making all these jokes yet put them in big roles, even made Hogan champion. It never stopped from there. Now guys like Taker, HHH, and ext are at that age are still being used as that. 2019 and we are going to have a Goldberg vs. Taker match? WM we had to have HHH vs. Batista 10+ years later after there first WM match that we where supposed to "forget".
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Post by corndog on May 17, 2019 16:40:51 GMT -5
At least WCW made midcard titles mean something. For the most part, ever since WCW went out of business Vince stopped caring about what the fans wanted and just pushed his own stars like Cena and HHH. He had chances with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to create new stars that had crossover appeal and could have brought back old fans, but he clearly doesn't want or care about that.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 17, 2019 17:33:06 GMT -5
It's funny, but guys like Jericho, Guerrero, and Benoit, each of whom was at least being utilized decently on-air with WCW, still jumped to WWF and mostly seemed to say it was a better experience because things in Stamford were easier to work with: things were scheduled more clearly, job expectations were clearer, and if you had a problem you knew that everything went directly through Vince, unlike WCW where it seemed to be disjointed and lacking in a clear pecking order for when you wanted to voice your concerns to management.
Since then, we get stories of Raw being rewritten ten minutes before air time, wrestlers traveling to TV and yet not being used for weeks on end, and, go figure, morale is taking a dive because of it. Huh.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on May 17, 2019 17:54:28 GMT -5
Tbh, as easy as it is to be low on WWE now, retroactively shitting on them from the moment WCW closed seems a little revisionist imo. There was a lot to like in the ruthless agression era.
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Post by Starshine on May 17, 2019 17:59:42 GMT -5
I think it really started with the 3 hour RAWs, and has been a slow progression ever since. Fllowing that we've seen them consistently push established talent over their current crop. A notable number of storylines either don't make a lick of sense, are full of kayfabe breaking jargon, or are just dropped entirely without warning. The booking is completely erratic. The shows are boring. Nothing matters, because anything that happens can be swept under the rung a day later. A lot of talent that managers to get any positive buzz is quickly marginalised in favour of who the company deems as earning that spot.
It's been a long road to get here. But the comparisons have only become more apparent since.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nate5054 on May 17, 2019 19:18:54 GMT -5
WCW at least entertained me even during its dog crap 99-01 run.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 17, 2019 20:14:32 GMT -5
Reign of terror, when they first started booking the company to send a heel home happy rather than the fans, on a regular basis. They decided not to care about crowd reactions and declining ratings, attendances and buyrates, unless they can be used to justify depushing guys who were on the outs, politically. Ever since then it's been a cycle of WCW 98 to WCW 99 and back, where moments with glimpses of potential are swept away by nonsense. All of this. The most accurate thing Dave Meltzer ever said was, "Vince made himself a billionaire. HHH and Stephanie made him a millionaire again." |
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Optimax
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Post by Optimax on May 17, 2019 21:47:37 GMT -5
At least WCW made midcard titles mean something. For the most part, ever since WCW went out of business Vince stopped caring about what the fans wanted and just pushed his own stars like Cena and HHH. He had chances with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to create new stars that had crossover appeal and could have brought back old fans, but he clearly doesn't want or care about that. The tv championship was defended on every nitro it felt like, and the United states title seemed so important......the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series was just brilliant |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 22:40:08 GMT -5
The first time I noticed this downfall was during the Guest Host era in 2009.
That’s when things went to shit. That’s when every episode of Raw felt formulaic and boring. Literally every Raw in 2009 followed the same script... bring out the host nobody knows, have him be accompanied by the Bellas and get involved in making the main event for that night. Usually a boring tag team match with some combination of JeriShow or Legacy vs DX and Cena.
Oh and we had Hornswoggle doing Tom & Jerry esque skits with Chavo every week. Truly the worst time ever to be a WWE fan.
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Post by madness50 on May 17, 2019 22:52:10 GMT -5
When I briefly saw the main event of “Brown Jewel” in November, I had a very vivid flashback of WCW. All four of the men in the ring were 50 years old. That is almost decade older than Hogan, Savage, Hall, Nash, etc. in 1997. WWE has dogged WCW for over 20 years and they are repeating and even topping some of WCW’s missteps. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on May 17, 2019 23:47:51 GMT -5
Literally everything WWE criticized WCW for, they went on to do themselves, but worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 0:02:35 GMT -5
Literally everything WWE criticized WCW for, they went on to do themselves, but worse. At least 2000s WCW was funny in a tragic way. WWE is just bad. You can’t even laugh at it cause it’s so damn boring. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 18, 2019 0:15:41 GMT -5
This is more like 1999 WCW bad. 2000 WCW bad was a different kind. I'd say that's pretty accurate. Nitro was a two hour show for all but a few episodes in 2000, and 2000 also saw a youth movement take place in the second half of the year as a lot of the top stars actually ended up leaving for good. Meanwhile, modern Raw has way more in common with the era of WCW that produced classic angles like the White Hummer saga. |
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Post by corndog on May 18, 2019 1:10:05 GMT -5
At least WCW made midcard titles mean something. For the most part, ever since WCW went out of business Vince stopped caring about what the fans wanted and just pushed his own stars like Cena and HHH. He had chances with CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to create new stars that had crossover appeal and could have brought back old fans, but he clearly doesn't want or care about that. The tv championship was defended on every nitro it felt like, and the United states title seemed so important......the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series was just brilliant Even though the TV title was a third tier belt, it really helped build several guys. Absolutely loved the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series, that belt helped make both of them. Jericho made a step up as a heavyweight with the belt and I also enjoyed Raven's run with the title as well. Despite the fact that politics mostly defined the main event scene, they did a good job of protecting guys in the mid card that they cared about and wanted to build. |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 18, 2019 1:12:44 GMT -5
The tv championship was defended on every nitro it felt like, and the United states title seemed so important......the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series was just brilliant Even though the TV title was a third tier belt, it really helped build several guys. Absolutely loved the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series, that belt helped make both of them. Jericho made a step up as a heavyweight with the belt and I also enjoyed Raven's run with the title as well. Despite the fact that politics mostly defined the main event scene, they did a good job of protecting guys in the mid card that they cared about and wanted to build. I think you mean Saturn. Raven never held the TV title. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 18, 2019 3:47:12 GMT -5
Tbh, as easy as it is to be low on WWE now, retroactively shitting on them from the moment WCW closed seems a little revisionist imo. There was a lot to like in the ruthless agression era. That isn't what I meant. I will always be a WCW fan before I am a WWE fan. I meant they started immediately making the same mistakes that WCW made. And WCW started making mistakes as early as 1996 and didn't start paying for it until a few years later. But the InVasion angle was a perfect example of becoming WCW, and the reset button they hit when that angle finished with zero explanation for anything even more so. |
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Optimax
Mephisto
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Post by Optimax on May 18, 2019 4:17:53 GMT -5
Even though the TV title was a third tier belt, it really helped build several guys. Absolutely loved the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series, that belt helped make both of them. Jericho made a step up as a heavyweight with the belt and I also enjoyed Raven's run with the title as well. Despite the fact that politics mostly defined the main event scene, they did a good job of protecting guys in the mid card that they cared about and wanted to build. I think you mean Saturn. Raven never held the TV title. raven did have a cool run with the US title. And lost the title to Goldberg in a savage no DQ match iirc |
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thirteen3
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Post by thirteen3 on May 18, 2019 4:59:56 GMT -5
The second WCW closed. Like, the very instant. They absorbed a lot of the office staff from WCW didn't they? Even adopting their bullshit dress code as well. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on May 18, 2019 6:15:11 GMT -5
WCW was what Vince always wanted the WWF to be. His criticisms were always tinged with obvious jealousy.
If AEW doesn’t crash and burn, it could absolutely be a MAJOR threat to WWE. The people in charge know how things work, have seen how big promotions have screwed up before, and don’t exist entirely with some weird self-fellating bubble.
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