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Post by romanstylesiii on May 29, 2019 2:28:21 GMT -5
Between Mox, Punk and 99% of shoot videos, so many wrestlers end up bitter when leaving WWE. These guys, living their dreams, sometimes making millions of dollars nearly all end up bitter.
This is remarkable for so many reasons. The guys who leave WWE seem to be far more bitter than guys who left WCW in the 90's
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 29, 2019 2:57:02 GMT -5
I think how bad it is depends entirely on the type of person you are and where you are in your career.
Jericho, Punk, Mox, these are guys with creativity as their most important motivator. Always has been. So they would hate it.
Some guys just like to wrestle at all and earn money do it.
And some, like Nakamura, are getting older and have had their creative peak and are kind of up for doing anything.
Basically this generation of wrestlers want to do good wrestling like they used to watch, and WWE increasingly isn't the place to do that.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on May 29, 2019 4:00:50 GMT -5
honestly, listen to the Moxley interview. The creative process is, in his opinion(not mine, not Meltzer, someone from the inside) is KILLING the company.
Dude also said straight up that Vince is killing the company.
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Post by arrogantmodel on May 29, 2019 4:16:46 GMT -5
How many writers have said that basically it's Vince going, "You want to write compelling, interesting, and logical stories? Haha! Go right ahead. I'm just going to trash it and pull something out of my ass with two minutes to air."
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 29, 2019 4:33:35 GMT -5
honestly, listen to the Moxley interview. The creative process is, in his opinion(not mine, not Meltzer, someone from the inside) is KILLING the company. Dude also said straight up that Vince is killing the company. Speaking as someone who is a WWE homer, to a fault at times, that was some explosive stuff. I find it impossible to blame anyone else in the creative process other than the man at the top if that's what they have to deal with. Not Triple H, not Road Dogg, not the other executives, not the writing team, not the wrestlers themselves (yes, even Baron Corbin)... nobody.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on May 29, 2019 6:39:51 GMT -5
I think how bad it is depends entirely on the type of person you are and where you are in your career. Jericho, Punk, Mox, these are guys with creativity as their most important motivator. Always has been. So they would hate it. Some guys just like to wrestle at all and earn money do it. And some, like Nakamura, are getting older and have had their creative peak and are kind of up for doing anything. Basically this generation of wrestlers want to do good wrestling like they used to watch, and WWE increasingly isn't the place to do that. Great post. I think it's probably a great environment amongst the other guys and girls in terms of the camaraderie and fun you have with people outside of the ring and getting to travel the world etc but creatively it's apparently extremely stifling if you're that kind of person.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 29, 2019 6:48:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm 50 minutes in, just listening to how this all went down for him it's astounding how "un-wrestling" so much of the modern WWE creative process is. Like, a century of getting people over, hyping matches, selling tickets, all the methods of doing that? "Nah, pal, here's the REAL way to do it!", all while ticket sales/ratings/fan engagement etc. drop.
What got me most was the description of the night soon after his last heel turn, where he did a bunch of pre-taped and live promos throughout the show, and he's left thinking "Wait...we just did six promos and didn't tell a story, nothing was accomplished." Way too often that's the vibe that WWE writing gives me: wrestlers turn face or heel because, well, we need them face or heel for a particular feud, not because of any character-driven reason or organic development (with some exceptions, of course). Dean going the way he did as a means of coping with Roman's sickness could've gone somewhere, but by all accounts it was just a way to garner "YOU PEOPLE!" heat. Awful.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on May 29, 2019 10:16:39 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 29, 2019 10:29:38 GMT -5
I think how bad it is depends entirely on the type of person you are and where you are in your career. Jericho, Punk, Mox, these are guys with creativity as their most important motivator. Always has been. So they would hate it. Some guys just like to wrestle at all and earn money do it. And some, like Nakamura, are getting older and have had their creative peak and are kind of up for doing anything. Basically this generation of wrestlers want to do good wrestling like they used to watch, and WWE increasingly isn't the place to do that. I was gonna say this for some, WWE is a chance to say they worked for the WWE and eventually transition to roles at the PC. For others they're having fun, and for some they are probably miserable or frustrated. For as much as Mox let's out in his interview he doesnt come off as bitter just frustrated, but he also comes off as grateful for what WWE did for him. Compare that to Punk who hated everything.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 11:00:41 GMT -5
they have too many wrestlers and don't know what to do with them. Stop hoarding
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on May 29, 2019 11:05:11 GMT -5
honestly, listen to the Moxley interview. The creative process is, in his opinion(not mine, not Meltzer, someone from the inside) is KILLING the company. Dude also said straight up that Vince is killing the company. Speaking as someone who is a WWE homer, to a fault at times, that was some explosive stuff. I find it impossible to blame anyone else in the creative process other than the man at the top if that's what they have to deal with. Not Triple H, not Road Dogg, not the other executives, not the writing team, not the wrestlers themselves (yes, even Baron Corbin)... nobody. I'm a WWE guy to a fault, but I'm starting to crack after what I saw with AEW. Based on this interview from Mox, I can't see how anyone that thrives on creativity could be happy in that company. If Vince doesn't like it or doesn't "get it", it's simply not going to happen. Maybe in '97 - '00, it could happen.... but not in 2019. I'm convinced more than ever that Vince is the biggest problem.
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Post by realist on May 29, 2019 11:06:35 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem. I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him.
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ChitownKnight
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Post by ChitownKnight on May 29, 2019 12:11:50 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem. I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him. Mark Henry maybe? AJ Styles? Both always has something positive to say about WWE. Plus I’m sure the backstage culture with fellow superstars seem fun. But yeah creatively it sucks lol
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Post by Legion on May 29, 2019 12:15:13 GMT -5
I think how bad it is depends entirely on the type of person you are and where you are in your career. Jericho, Punk, Mox, these are guys with creativity as their most important motivator. Always has been. So they would hate it. Some guys just like to wrestle at all and earn money do it. And some, like Nakamura, are getting older and have had their creative peak and are kind of up for doing anything. Basically this generation of wrestlers want to do good wrestling like they used to watch, and WWE increasingly isn't the place to do that. This, but I think we also have to add some things regarding negatives about the guys themselves - some people are just getting older, and can't face their spot isnt what it used to be. Some guys buy their own hype and grow an ego. Some guys probably get frustrated they aren't where they would like to be - but not everyone can be champion. It's fun to pile on WWE and Vince, but it isnt always just about the company or the way it's run. Some people get bitter for all sorts of reasons.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on May 29, 2019 12:21:46 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem. I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him. I think some people love it. There's nothing wrong with being happy just to do whatever you're told and roll with it. I bet the IIconics love it. Lifetime fans travelling the world doing your dream job as best buds. They don't seem the type to care about planning broad 6 month stories and stuff like that. Lifetime WWE fans like Kofi too probably.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on May 29, 2019 12:24:07 GMT -5
If you don't care about the product you're producing, the daily grind of travel/work out/wrestle/travel, and you want to get paid good money, then WWE's the perfect place.
If you care, then get in there, get as over as you possibly can, and get the f*** out.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on May 29, 2019 12:39:17 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem. I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him. I mean how many people in the world are truly happy with their jobs then? There is always some things wish can be changed but they are still satisfied with their current role. I am not sure why the WWE should be held to this high standard in a competitive business where spots are limited that everyone should be happy all the time.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on May 29, 2019 12:40:47 GMT -5
It's probably like most companies in the world. Some people enjoy working there others don't. It's not just a WWE problem. I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him. I think that’s a bit extreme.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on May 29, 2019 12:43:13 GMT -5
If AEW has done _anything_ useful even on paper, it's that it's reminded a number of pro wrestling's best and brightest that WWE need not be the be-all, end-all for their careers. It need not even define their success in the overall scheme of pro wrestling, and in many cases there's a cachet to those wrestlers who deliberately avoid drinking the WWE Kool-Aid.
When Triple H cannot protect the talents he showcased in NXT from Vince's capriciousness, his promises sound increasingly hollow to anyone who might consider it.
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Post by realist on May 29, 2019 12:44:08 GMT -5
I honestly don't think anyone but Vince McMahon enjoys working there. I'm sure that all of the guys and girls enjoy when the checks come in. But, I do not think I can name a single performer who is probably completely happy in WWE. If there was one guy who enjoyed working there, you would think it would have been John Cena. And he disappeared the second Hollywood gave him a few bit parts, which to be fair, have since become pretty big roles, so good on him. I think that’s a bit extreme. Fair point. Perhaps I was being a bit hyperbolic. However, I will say that I fully believe that there are many more unhappy people under WWE contract than there are happy people under WWE contract.
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