Hypnosis
T
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Post by Hypnosis on Aug 16, 2019 12:05:49 GMT -5
For anyone that questions OC's ability, I've always cited this match. It is 25 minutes, but please take the time to watch and see exactly what he can do. Shocked that the thumbnail pic of Cassidy on that video hasn't become an Andrew W.K. parody shirt on Pro Wrestling Tees by now.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Aug 16, 2019 20:39:50 GMT -5
So its agreed. We can only enjoy wrestling if it's a carbon copy of Smokey Mountain Wrestling. Smokey Mountain had a mummy from ancient Egypt.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,433
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 16, 2019 20:59:22 GMT -5
I keep saying this about your posts man, but I wish I could like this shit 10 times. It's the burn on Hawk the Slayer isn't it? Late to the party (I'm going to say it's an Orange Cassidy posting technique to be on topic) but this needs to be here:
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 16, 2019 21:30:27 GMT -5
Smokey Mountain had a mummy from ancient Egypt. I've never seen any of the matches with the Prince Kharis character to confirm this, but Cornette has said that he insisted the SMW announcers sell him as a large, mentally unhinged man who dressed like a mummy to throw off his opponents rather than trying to tell the audience he was an actual mummy come to life. The character was apparently pushed on him by SMW's financial backer. Okay...so? He still booked a mummy, introduced it as such and had a manager (James Mitchell) who went on and on about his thousands-year old backstory on tv. The fans treated it as a mummy gimmick, the magazines treated it like a mummy gimmick and history treats it like a mummy gimmick. It was a mummy gimmick. Cornette can give all the excuses he wants to make himself look good, but that's what it is.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 16, 2019 21:32:51 GMT -5
For anyone that questions OC's ability, I've always cited this match. It is 25 minutes, but please take the time to watch and see exactly what he can do. Shocked that the thumbnail pic of Cassidy on that video hasn't become an Andrew W.K. parody shirt on Pro Wrestling Tees by now. "I Get Juice". Not going to lie, that'd be a f***ing rad shirt, especially with that play on words.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Aug 16, 2019 22:13:49 GMT -5
I've never seen any of the matches with the Prince Kharis character to confirm this, but Cornette has said that he insisted the SMW announcers sell him as a large, mentally unhinged man who dressed like a mummy to throw off his opponents rather than trying to tell the audience he was an actual mummy come to life. The character was apparently pushed on him by SMW's financial backer. Okay...so? He still booked a mummy, introduced it as such and had a manager (James Mitchell) who went on and on about his thousands-year old backstory on tv. The fans treated it as a mummy gimmick, the magazines treated it like a mummy gimmick and history treats it like a mummy gimmick. It was a mummy gimmick. Cornette can give all the excuses he wants to make himself look good, but that's what it is. The announcers did not treat it like a mummy gimmick--they treated it as the work of two delusional people or two people pretending to be delusional in order to psyche out/confuse their opponents. This is spelled out to anyone who actually cares to watch Smoky Mountain television from the time instead of trying to play "gotcha"--at no point, once, ever, were we the fans to believe that Prince Kharis was an actual 3,000-year-old mummy. But hey, if someone next pulls the "But Cornette booked himself against a Ninja Turtle!" ball, I can get Cornette Gotcha Bingo. Edit: Also, someone is going to have to point out to me specifically where Cornette ever came out against gimmicks in wrestling. Even wacky ones. Like a specific passage in a podcast or written piece. I'd appreciate it.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 16, 2019 22:44:09 GMT -5
Okay...so? He still booked a mummy, introduced it as such and had a manager (James Mitchell) who went on and on about his thousands-year old backstory on tv. The fans treated it as a mummy gimmick, the magazines treated it like a mummy gimmick and history treats it like a mummy gimmick. It was a mummy gimmick. Cornette can give all the excuses he wants to make himself look good, but that's what it is. The announcers did not treat it like a mummy gimmick--they treated it as the work of two delusional people or two people pretending to be delusional in order to psyche out/confuse their opponents. This is spelled out to anyone who actually cares to watch Smoky Mountain television from the time instead of trying to play "gotcha"--at no point, once, ever, were we the fans to believe that Prince Kharis was an actual 3,000-year-old mummy. But hey, if someone next pulls the "But Cornette booked himself against a Ninja Turtle!" ball, I can get Cornette Gotcha Bingo. Edit: Also, someone is going to have to point out to me specifically where Cornette ever came out against gimmicks in wrestling. Even wacky ones. Like a specific passage in a podcast or written piece. I'd appreciate it. Not playing "gotcha" and I really, really don't appreciate how you've worded things. Don't you dare ever talk to me with that "to anyone who actually cares to watch" crap again. Ever. You really think out of all the people here, I haven't watched SMW?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 16, 2019 22:51:12 GMT -5
The announcers did not treat it like a mummy gimmick--they treated it as the work of two delusional people or two people pretending to be delusional in order to psyche out/confuse their opponents. This is spelled out to anyone who actually cares to watch Smoky Mountain television from the time instead of trying to play "gotcha"--at no point, once, ever, were we the fans to believe that Prince Kharis was an actual 3,000-year-old mummy. But hey, if someone next pulls the "But Cornette booked himself against a Ninja Turtle!" ball, I can get Cornette Gotcha Bingo. Edit: Also, someone is going to have to point out to me specifically where Cornette ever came out against gimmicks in wrestling. Even wacky ones. Like a specific passage in a podcast or written piece. I'd appreciate it. Not playing "gotcha" and I really, really don't appreciate how you've worded things. Don't you dare ever talk to me with that "to anyone who actually cares to watch" crap again. Ever. You really think out of all the people here, I haven't watched SMW? Honestly it not being an actual Mummy makes it more lame for me or at least making clear it is not.Like the whole thing with The Fiend right now,if they just went "Well Bray is not actually a fiend"it would be lame. Call a Spade a Spade, you wanted an ancient Egyptian mummy themed wrestler.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 17, 2019 0:08:24 GMT -5
Not playing "gotcha" and I really, really don't appreciate how you've worded things. Don't you dare ever talk to me with that "to anyone who actually cares to watch" crap again. Ever. You really think out of all the people here, I haven't watched SMW? Honestly it not being an actual Mummy makes it more lame for me or at least making clear it is not.Like the whole thing with The Fiend right now,if they just went "Well Bray is not actually a fiend"it would be lame. Call a Spade a Spade, you wanted an ancient Egyptian mummy themed wrestler. Me? I prefer Aztec mummies when it comes to wrestling, thank you. As far as Bray goes, they already do that by referencing all of his other previous gimmicks. None of that is the point though. I don't give two shits if Cornette cut the legs out from under the gimmick via the commentators. I don't give two shits if the mummy actually was a rotting corpse from two thousand years. Irrelevant. They still took a guy in mummy bandages and three gallons of baby powder, and put him in the ring. Anyone looking to make excuses for the why's of Cornette doing it are missing the point entirely.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Aug 17, 2019 0:09:03 GMT -5
In regards to the whole "killing the business" mentality, I'd like to point out that Karl Gotch once said that Harley Race's offense was too flashy and unrealistic, and no one would ever believe it's real.
I repeat: Harley f***ing Race was accused of "killing the business".
The times change, and wrestling changes with it. I bet that the older generation would have said the exact same things about Smokey Mountain Wrestling that Cornette says about modern wrestlers.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
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Post by Glitch on Aug 17, 2019 0:54:23 GMT -5
So its agreed. We can only enjoy wrestling if it's a carbon copy of Smokey Mountain Wrestling. Smokey Mountain had a mummy from ancient Egypt. .........wait, then why is that ok with the same people who think a dick flip is horrible and "killing the business "? EDIT: nevermind. Just saw your dueling posts elaborating on it.
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Post by Deputy Muscle on Aug 17, 2019 2:02:12 GMT -5
In regards to the whole "killing the business" mentality, I'd like to point out that Karl Gotch once said that Harley Race's offense was too flashy and unrealistic, and no one would ever believe it's real. I repeat: Harley f***ing Race was accused of "killing the business". The times change, and wrestling changes with it. I bet that the older generation would have said the exact same things about Smokey Mountain Wrestling that Cornette says about modern wrestlers. I've always thought Harley Race was a showpony in the ring. Always felt he needed to bring the realism and gritty offence that a hard hitter like Santino always did.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Aug 17, 2019 2:26:35 GMT -5
The announcers did not treat it like a mummy gimmick--they treated it as the work of two delusional people or two people pretending to be delusional in order to psyche out/confuse their opponents. This is spelled out to anyone who actually cares to watch Smoky Mountain television from the time instead of trying to play "gotcha"--at no point, once, ever, were we the fans to believe that Prince Kharis was an actual 3,000-year-old mummy. But hey, if someone next pulls the "But Cornette booked himself against a Ninja Turtle!" ball, I can get Cornette Gotcha Bingo. Edit: Also, someone is going to have to point out to me specifically where Cornette ever came out against gimmicks in wrestling. Even wacky ones. Like a specific passage in a podcast or written piece. I'd appreciate it. Not playing "gotcha" and I really, really don't appreciate how you've worded things. Don't you dare ever talk to me with that "to anyone who actually cares to watch" crap again. Ever. You really think out of all the people here, I haven't watched SMW? *shrug* I can only go by what you wrote.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Aug 17, 2019 2:30:01 GMT -5
In regards to the whole "killing the business" mentality, I'd like to point out that Karl Gotch once said that Harley Race's offense was too flashy and unrealistic, and no one would ever believe it's real. I repeat: Harley f***ing Race was accused of "killing the business". The times change, and wrestling changes with it. I bet that the older generation would have said the exact same things about Smokey Mountain Wrestling that Cornette says about modern wrestlers. Change is neither inherently bad nor inherently good. Gotch had a particular and narrow-minded view of professional wrestling that Harley clearly didn't fit, but just because he was wrong, or at least disagreeable, about certain things doesn't mean he was wrong about others (in the same interview he talks about the oversaturation of wrestling on TV that seems remarkably prescient in the era of multi-hour TV shows). Race for all his greatness had his flaws as a worker. Well before the Gotch interview made the rounds in recent months, the reviewers at the old Death Valley Driver boards--who were a lot more open-minded about their wrestling than Karl--would call him out for overdoing certain moves early in the match and accuse him of being "the Kurt Angle of the '70s," and not meaning that as a compliment.
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Post by eJm on Aug 17, 2019 3:11:01 GMT -5
Change is neither inherently bad nor inherently good. Of course not, but it still needs to happen regardless. Nobody wants a stagnated business full of the same ideas over and over again and even if an idea fails, it’s still a different idea. And again, people who disagree are NOT the problem. It’s great to have disagreements because everyone has a different idea of what wrestling is. It’s when people act like someone trying something outside the box is doing it to kill the business instead of just trying something different.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 17, 2019 9:26:33 GMT -5
Change is neither inherently bad nor inherently good. Of course not, but it still needs to happen regardless. Nobody wants a stagnated business full of the same ideas over and over again and even if an idea fails, it’s still a different idea. And again, people who disagree are NOT the problem. It’s great to have disagreements because everyone has a different idea of what wrestling is. It’s when people act like someone trying something outside the box is doing it to kill the business instead of just trying something different. And ultimately, any and every medium needs people who try unconventional or even flat-out weird shit. Think of how many experimental movies have been made since the creation of cinema; think of how many films are done without a clear-cut narrative, done just by the use of seemingly random images, done with direction that nobody could have conceived of beforehand, whether due to technological limitations or social standards of their respective eras. Some of those films become legendary, or at least become the subjects of modern art museums. Some of them absolutely suck, and are just outright horrendous in the eyes of most who see them. But the existence of such films doesn't impact the ticket sales of more mainstream fare, and you want them to exist because it's how the medium evolves and grows, whether via success or via learning from failures. You need the risk takers, the oddballs, the ones on shoestring budgets, the deranged, etc., because the totality of that output is what makes the medium what it is, and creates the base it will evolve from.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 17, 2019 17:24:04 GMT -5
It's the burn on Hawk the Slayer isn't it? Late to the party (I'm going to say it's an Orange Cassidy posting technique to be on topic) but this needs to be here: Thank-you so much for posting this, it was my first thought but I didn't know how to do this on my phone.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,585
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Post by cjh on Aug 18, 2019 6:28:57 GMT -5
Not playing "gotcha" and I really, really don't appreciate how you've worded things. Don't you dare ever talk to me with that "to anyone who actually cares to watch" crap again. Ever. You really think out of all the people here, I haven't watched SMW? Honestly it not being an actual Mummy makes it more lame for me or at least making clear it is not.Like the whole thing with The Fiend right now,if they just went "Well Bray is not actually a fiend"it would be lame. Call a Spade a Spade, you wanted an ancient Egyptian mummy themed wrestler.Cornette didn't want the mummy gimmick. He's flat out said so. It wouldn't have happened if it had been 100% his decision.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 18, 2019 7:58:02 GMT -5
It's fair to not like someone's gimmick or even get it. I do not get the talk about guys like Orange Cassidy, Chuck Taylor, or Joey Ryan ruining the business. Is everybody going to like what they do? No. Would what they do translate to all audiences? No. But I always think about what Kevin Nash said he was told by Rick Rude... The only two things that are real in the business are the money and the miles. If you aren't a fan of someone that is fine, if you don't want to support them great. But if they're doing something that is making them more money and it isn't physically hurting anybody else... more power to them.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Aug 18, 2019 8:29:48 GMT -5
Honestly it not being an actual Mummy makes it more lame for me or at least making clear it is not.Like the whole thing with The Fiend right now,if they just went "Well Bray is not actually a fiend"it would be lame. Call a Spade a Spade, you wanted an ancient Egyptian mummy themed wrestler.Cornette didn't want the mummy gimmick. He's flat out said so. It wouldn't have happened if it had been 100% his decision. But it was a mummy gimmick. You can call a duck a goose but it is still a duck. He just tried to go through all the hoops to act like it isnt.
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