the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,637
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Post by the2ndevil on Oct 30, 2019 11:11:47 GMT -5
Wow, WWE is really standing up for women's rights by *checks paper* pushing their own business interests and getting an incredibly repressive, patriarchal regime to make an exception for two foreign women that will not make anything better for the Saudi women who have to live day by day under a society that refuses them autonomy. Yay WWE. i'm confused about what you'd want to happen here. you'd rather...they didn't have women wrestling on the show? I don't think anyone's suggesting wwe has "fixed" all the problems in the world, but they've taken a small, first step to normalising something that those of us in the western world take for granted. Sure, it's a tiny tiny step in the right direction, but it's the right direction. wwe should be celebrating this. wwe should be telling everyone about this. that's how big changes eventual happen, with millions of small changes. I want to frame this post. Well said.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Oct 30, 2019 11:14:48 GMT -5
It’ll look like Conquistadors battling it out
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 30, 2019 11:33:08 GMT -5
Wow, WWE is really standing up for women's rights by *checks paper* pushing their own business interests and getting an incredibly repressive, patriarchal regime to make an exception for two foreign women that will not make anything better for the Saudi women who have to live day by day under a society that refuses them autonomy. Yay WWE. i'm confused about what you'd want to happen here. you'd rather...they didn't have women wrestling on the show? I don't think anyone's suggesting wwe has "fixed" all the problems in the world, but they've taken a small, first step to normalising something that those of us in the western world take for granted. Sure, it's a tiny tiny step in the right direction, but it's the right direction. wwe should be celebrating this. wwe should be telling everyone about this. that's how big changes eventual happen, with millions of small changes. Because it's not normalizing it. Women perform in Saudi Arabia plenty, the same initiative bringing WWE to the country has also brought female musicians. That isn't what's going on here. WWE is going to brag about breaking down barriers, but it's not barriers; the women who are going to be able to do this are not Saudi citizens, and this isn't likely to change the way Saudi women are treated. WWE hasn't made a step, they've been allowed to make an exception, and it is an exception that comes in around so many other problems. Saudi Arabia isn't at a point where "women can do a scripted fight too" is even on the shortlist of demands. There are major rights and freedoms that people need, and when two non-Saudi women are allowed to put on a wrestling match, that's not helping women get those freedoms. That's not challenging social norms; they're a passing-through entertainment act, it'll come and it'll go, and after the show, life goes on. Is anyone in a position of power going to watch Lacey Evans vs. Natalia Neidhart and be so moved by what they do that they start to re-evaluate their views on women? The majority of major social change in the 20th century didn't come from lots of little steps and minor gestures. It came from actual pressure and conflict and from people fighting. Women getting the "right" to drive in Saudi Arabia came from women pushing and fighting, and the activisits who fought for that are still in prison, while the state pays WWE to talk about how progressive KSA is for letting women drive. WWE celebrating this like they're rocking the boat and fighting for major change is a joke, they've made this push for their own gain and that's as far as it's going to go, and I think looking at this like it's a big deal is missing a lot of perspective on the issue as a whole and not jsut within wrestling, because for the actual gravity of this situation, this match means less than dirt. What WWE should be doing is not doing state propaganda shows in the f***ing first place and not trying being complicit in a campaign designed expressly to improve the image of a dangerous regime so they can open up to more tourist money. That's what I want to happen.
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City Duck
Ozymandius
MAMMA MIA! CRUISERLICIOUS!
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Posts: 60,741
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Post by City Duck on Oct 30, 2019 11:37:23 GMT -5
i'm confused about what you'd want to happen here. you'd rather...they didn't have women wrestling on the show? I don't think anyone's suggesting wwe has "fixed" all the problems in the world, but they've taken a small, first step to normalising something that those of us in the western world take for granted. Sure, it's a tiny tiny step in the right direction, but it's the right direction. wwe should be celebrating this. wwe should be telling everyone about this. that's how big changes eventual happen, with millions of small changes. Because it's not normalizing it. Women perform in Saudi Arabia plenty, the same initiative bringing WWE to the country has also brought female musicians. That isn't what's going on here. WWE is going to brag about breaking down barriers, but it's not barriers; the women who are going to be able to do this are not Saudi citizens, and this isn't likely to change the way Saudi women are treated. WWE hasn't made a step, they've been allowed to make an exception, and it is an exception that comes in around so many other problems. Saudi Arabia isn't at a point where "women can do a scripted fight too" is even on the shortlist of demands. There are major rights and freedoms that people need, and when two non-Saudi women are allowed to put on a wrestling match, that's not helping women get those freedoms. That's not challenging social norms; they're a passing-through entertainment act, it'll come and it'll go, and after the show. Is anyone in a position of power going to watch Lacey Evans vs. Natalia Neidhart and be so moved by what they do that they start to re-evaluate their views on women? The majority of major social change in the 20th century didn't come from lots of little steps and minor gestures. It came from actual pressure and conflict and from people fighting. Women getting the "right" to drive in Saudi Arabia came from women pushing and fighting, and the activisits who fought for that are still in prison, while the state pays WWE to talk about how progressive KSA is for letting women drive. WWE celebrating this like they're rocking the boat and fighting for major change is a joke, they've made this push for their own gain and that's as far as it's going to go, and I think looking at this like it's a big deal is missing a lot of perspective on the issue as a whole and not jsut within wrestling, because for the actual gravity of this situation, this match means less than dirt. What WWE should be doing is not doing state propaganda shows in the f***ing first place and not trying being complicit in a campaign designed expressly to improve the image of a dangerous regime so they can open up to more tourist money. That's what I want to happen.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 30, 2019 11:43:14 GMT -5
To add to all this, from an interview Stephanie did with Bleacher Report.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 30, 2019 11:47:55 GMT -5
One small step forward amongst their many step backwards
Nothing more, nothing less
More so interested to see what the fall out will be
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Post by darbus alan on Oct 30, 2019 11:52:12 GMT -5
Hooray for state propaganda masquerading as progress.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 30, 2019 11:52:18 GMT -5
To add to all this, from an interview Stephanie did with Bleacher Report. I know it's an empty answer and not the actual reason, but on its face, the idea they can't do another show when the first was so well-received because they've just been too busy trying to cram a women's match onto Crown Jewel has such insanely unfavorable implications. "We didn't have time to book a show in and around the dozens we book each month, because we were instead trying to get this one match to maybe happen". Like that's such a horrible excuse. They look like clowns.
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Post by darbus alan on Oct 30, 2019 12:10:51 GMT -5
Without putting too much emphasis on detail, it's often a situation of one step forward, two steps backward. They can embrace Western entertainment all they like, there's a lot of other stuff they gotta fix up first. Yeah, while the Crown Prince has done some good internally, and does seem to want to promote change, there are still other things he has done that are definitely not good, and lots of that continues. However, change does take time and sometimes, small steps, even clearly orchestrated publicity stunt small steps, should be accepted. It takes a long time to undo 1200 years of societally enforced views, especially when there are still older generations holding on to them. Something is better than nothing. Saudi Arabia has only existed since 1932. And contrary to popular belief in the West, this movement of treating women like garbage in the region is a relatively recent trend.
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Post by Tenshigure on Oct 30, 2019 13:28:53 GMT -5
Yeah, let's remember the last time a pro wrestling show was the forefront of change in an oppressive country: North Korea saw the light and changed its ways nearly overnight... ...oh wait...
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Jumpin' Jesse Walsh
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ollie Jayy Chart Updates
Posts: 15,535
Member is Online
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Oct 30, 2019 13:52:28 GMT -5
Two white North American women play fighting in a pre-determined wrestling contest will lead the way in deconstructing centuries-long oppression in Saudi Arabia.
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Post by Error on Oct 30, 2019 14:03:20 GMT -5
To add to all this, from an interview Stephanie did with Bleacher Report. Wonder what this means for the all women’s show they announced at an NXT event last week. Guess it’ll be no more than a dolled up house show.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,752
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Post by fw91 on Oct 30, 2019 14:24:03 GMT -5
But it’s Nattie vs Lacey...
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,667
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Post by spagett on Oct 30, 2019 14:31:32 GMT -5
WWE are going to be patting themselves on the back for years and years now because of this.
Eurrgh
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Oct 30, 2019 14:59:55 GMT -5
To add to all this, from an interview Stephanie did with Bleacher Report. I'm dying at the idea of an entire department in Titan Towers spending months on booking one match. 16 hour days, working weekends, the whole works so Natalya and Evans can have a 1.25 star match to help further a propaganda effort for one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Oct 30, 2019 15:00:40 GMT -5
Doing a completely arbitrary thing that actually benefits no one and accomplishes nothing touted on an international stage as indicative of the kind of progress and benevolence that you want broadcasted out for potential business partners to see is exactly what propaganda is.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 30, 2019 15:13:23 GMT -5
Nah. Screw this. Can't give them any credit. This is a dude who slices up journalists who don't agree with him, but now he wants a pat on the back because he's allowing women to wrestle? That's if they don't pull the rug from them again. This. All the PR spin in the world doesn't change the fact that WWE is in bed with a dictator who has civilians murdered.
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,949
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Post by XIII on Oct 30, 2019 15:18:04 GMT -5
This(like the Saudi shows in general) is propaganda for both the WWE and Saudi Arabia. The WWE gets to pretend like they’re breaking down barriers and KSA gets to pretend like they’re a progressive nation. Honestly, I doubt that there would even be a women’s match still if the crown prince didn’t order a hit on an American citizen in a diplomatic building of a foreign nation. They’re just trying to make it look good until people forget again. It’s all about money for both parties.
I cannot wait until the full story of how this agreement came to be comes out, I’m guessing major political machinations hence the non-disclosure to the stockholders.
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warden
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,358
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Post by warden on Oct 30, 2019 15:20:29 GMT -5
WWE are going to be patting themselves on the back for years and years now because of this. Eurrgh Yes, yes they will. WWE is the change I strive for, nay, we all strive for. What bastions of light
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Oct 30, 2019 15:52:33 GMT -5
Yeah, let's remember the last time a pro wrestling show was the forefront of change in an oppressive country: North Korea saw the light and changed its ways nearly overnight... ...oh wait... Take the time to listen to Scott Norton's story about how he almost didn't get out of the country alive.
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