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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 25, 2019 15:31:39 GMT -5
I’d imagine the NWA is mixing multiple audio sources together for the final product. Again with knowing very little about how the NWA actually does this I’d imagine the editor is NOT tasked with being the Standards and Practices department for a YouTube TV show. Every single audio/video transition, lower third, match graphic, canned hype video, and/or everything else has to be edited together to make the final product. An editor for comparatively low budget and quite new company most likely will not be tasked with understanding the pulse of a nation. Again, I am not an NWA fan or Cornette fan. I just hate seeing people who most likely are innocent be incorrectly and unfairly raked over the coals. Incorrect, that's precisely a piece of the puzzle for editors. You're responsible for what goes into the edit and if you put something in there that shouldn't be in there, that's you not doing your job right. Hell, in live television--which this isn't, obviously, but just for a comparison point--it is absolutely the job of the people editing the show live to censor things or cut away if there's something they shouldn't be showing. That is absolutely a part of the job. And in the case of NWA Powerrr, we actually have the benefit of some insight into their editing practice, as Lagana spoke a few weeks ago to Meltzer about how he produces and edits the show, and talking about how he actively tries to trim anything unneceessary from the edit to keep it tighter and snappier. The editorial directive on the show is that things that aren't necessary should be trimmed out and cut, which inversely means that anything kept in is something people looked at and thought "Yeah, this should be kept in". In what way does responsibility here not fall onto the editor? Yea, I quit on this one because if he's going to keep pulling the have you worked in or do you know how the process works excuse then their is no point SOMEONE looks through this shit because it is their job. Either NWA as a whole is competent because they don't go through their shit (which they are trying to get a TV deal for) or someone f***ed up at their job. They had weeks to go through this stuff and I just don't see how a company doesn't watch their own product when you know it is going on the internet. This isn't a live show, you have plenty of time to make sure this is as tight as possible so that excuse of no one didn't see it doesn't fly If you tell me someone heard it and didn't think too much of it because Cornette said it before then maybe you'd have an excuse. If a person was editing everything at once and this just got glossed over then there would be an excuse. But to act like well there is no answer is not a good one because now everyone looks bad and incompetent |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 25, 2019 15:42:42 GMT -5
Incorrect, that's precisely a piece of the puzzle for editors. You're responsible for what goes into the edit and if you put something in there that shouldn't be in there, that's you not doing your job right. Hell, in live television--which this isn't, obviously, but just for a comparison point--it is absolutely the job of the people editing the show live to censor things or cut away if there's something they shouldn't be showing. That is absolutely a part of the job. And in the case of NWA Powerrr, we actually have the benefit of some insight into their editing practice, as Lagana spoke a few weeks ago to Meltzer about how he produces and edits the show, and talking about how he actively tries to trim anything unneceessary from the edit to keep it tighter and snappier. The editorial directive on the show is that things that aren't necessary should be trimmed out and cut, which inversely means that anything kept in is something people looked at and thought "Yeah, this should be kept in". In what way does responsibility here not fall onto the editor? If what you are saying is correct then it seems like the “editor” should have ZERO responsibility and is more on Lagana, who I am assuming does not edit the entire show. The editor most likely is sitting there with Lagana directing him for portions. Again, we are both making assumptions, but I’m presuming innocence before guilt. Is it possible this is so low budget that the director is the producer and also edit the entire program from top to bottom? Maybe. If not, I wouldn’t arbitrarily blame the editor. Have you worked in the industry or edited wrestling programming? I’m curious where your “fault the editor” stance is coming from. I mean from the very start people have been saying "if Lagana okayed this then yeah f*** him too" so I'm not really sure where most of your stance is coming from. If Lagana's standing over his shoulder telling him what to keep and not, then it's on Lagana. The point here is that someone made an active decision to put that into the show, and that someone should not be idly blameless; the projection of the nebulous concept of 'who edited it' onto one specific person to dance around playing responsibility games with to avoid the whole point. I don't think I should have to have edited wrestling programming to say that whoever didn't cut that out bears some responsbility--especially long after the Janet Jackson's nipple fiasco that mandated live television be aired on a delay explicitly to put responsibility on the production side to offending/infringing/inappropriate content making it to air, but f*** it, I'll bite. I've edited video for my own content and for some amateur filmmaking group stuff. But more weightily, as someone who professionally "does words" for a living I have taken up a fair amount of editing/proofreading/assessment work on things, sometimes expressly to catch issues of a similar nature to this. Not to mention the other side of the coin; handing my own work off to editors and knowing full well the power they have over the finished product. So if you want to come at me on a level of any kind of 'the role of an editor' talk on a philosophical basis and engage me there, then by all means. I am full of very passionate thoughts about the creative process and find discussion of it fascinating. But if you just want to slap around claims everyone's being irrational and that cancel culture is devouring reason because the raving hate mob wants blood then you're But that's all moot because uh. "According to one person very close to the situation, Lagana held himself accountable for his mistake in not editing the line out. This was blamed on simply exhaustion. But it was also noted that there have been other lines said on the NWA shows that Lagana has edited out that would also qualify as poor taste stuff." From the Observer. Lagana is the editor, is the one who does that, and I mean if Lagana himself thinks he f***ed up and believes that in his role he has a responsibility to cut these things out then clearly the more confusing stance taken is the one you're making in defense of a man who believes to the contrary that it's on his shoulders to do this. |
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Nov 25, 2019 16:02:23 GMT -5
Incorrect, that's precisely a piece of the puzzle for editors. You're responsible for what goes into the edit and if you put something in there that shouldn't be in there, that's you not doing your job right. Hell, in live television--which this isn't, obviously, but just for a comparison point--it is absolutely the job of the people editing the show live to censor things or cut away if there's something they shouldn't be showing. That is absolutely a part of the job. And in the case of NWA Powerrr, we actually have the benefit of some insight into their editing practice, as Lagana spoke a few weeks ago to Meltzer about how he produces and edits the show, and talking about how he actively tries to trim anything unneceessary from the edit to keep it tighter and snappier. The editorial directive on the show is that things that aren't necessary should be trimmed out and cut, which inversely means that anything kept in is something people looked at and thought "Yeah, this should be kept in". In what way does responsibility here not fall onto the editor? Yea, I quit on this one because if he's going to keep pulling the have you worked in or do you know how the process works excuse then their is no point SOMEONE looks through this shit because it is their job. Either NWA as a whole is competent because they don't go through their shit (which they are trying to get a TV deal for) or someone f***ed up at their job. They had weeks to go through this stuff and I just don't see how a company doesn't watch their own product when you know it is going on the internet. This isn't a live show, you have plenty of time to make sure this is as tight as possible so that excuse of no one didn't see it doesn't fly If you tell me someone heard it and didn't think too much of it because Cornette said it before then maybe you'd have an excuse. If a person was editing everything at once and this just got glossed over then there would be an excuse. But to act like well there is no answer is not a good one because now everyone looks bad and incompetent He? We are having a discussion. Am I he? I’m asking because it seems like some of your assumptions aren’t insightful to the process we’re discussing.. As someone who has edited wrestling I can attest that I rarely was tasked with auditing what the talent said unless somebody explicitly mentioned something. You’re just looking to blame “SOMEONE” for a joke made by Jim Cornette, who already stepped down. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 25, 2019 16:04:10 GMT -5
Guys, stop.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 25, 2019 16:06:25 GMT -5
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 25, 2019 16:15:45 GMT -5
There is enough blame to go around. Either way for a company that is openly trying to get a tv deal, both Cornette saying it, and the line not being edited out are both going to hurt that chance.
Bottom line, just because you want to present your show like the 80s doesnt mean that everything from that time will fly. I guarantee you if there was an angle ran with racial undertones today that would get the same reaction
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Nov 25, 2019 16:43:00 GMT -5
I’ll stop responding after this. I just want to state that I have no malice towards particular point of view. I’m just trying to point out possible flaws in logic when rushing to judgement. It’s telling that even as I can offer possible unbiased insight some fellow board members are more concerned with justifying their narrow point of view instead of engaging in discussion. I was kind of hoping somebody would respond with insight on the NWA production as I do not have intimate knowledge of it. I just found the “the editor should be punished” as a possible misinformed opinion. From my experience the editor on a low budget Youtube show could be doing the less prestigious part of editing. I would be surprised if anyone within the NWA said, “why didn’t the editor catch that!??” ... It’s much more likely nobody really vetted the commentary for content word for word. If it were on broadcast TV I would say “legally they need to have closed captioning AND somebody did indeed transcribe the content” at the moment I do not know whether NWA provided closed captioning on Youtube. Even if they had closed captioning done that is often outsourced due to how time consuming it can be, so even that doesn’t prove wrongdoing on an editor. Either way I’m sure this will be a fruitful learning experience for the new NWA. Often mistakes lead to growth and a deeper understanding of the problems. |
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efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Nov 25, 2019 16:46:17 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 7,072
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Post by lucas_lee on Nov 25, 2019 16:55:50 GMT -5
Does anyone honestly believe they combed through the whole show? I think they did minimal edits and didnt listen to the commentary because Cornette has been saying a lot of dumb **** before that. Austin Idol I dont mind because its tongue and cheek and hes in character. Cornette was just being himself an ***hole
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Nov 25, 2019 16:57:58 GMT -5
An interesting take by...Shane Douglas??? I agree with everything Shane stated. The editor(s) should bear equal responsibility. That said, if this "joke" was the only offensive behavior Corny had engaged in recently (or if he had apologized categorically) I'd say give him a pass but regrettably it wasn't. This "joke" is part of an ugly pattern. The totality of Corny's present antics (including his reaction to being called out for the "joke) is what makes him a bad-faith actor, not this one thing. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 25, 2019 17:15:45 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay. Didn't you just say the admin was "siding with fascists" a few hours ago? Anyway, people can keep harping on the same point over and over but you have to actively being ignoring the public facts of Powerrr's editing process and the ""According to one person very close to the situation, Lagana held himself accountable for his mistake in not editing the line out. This was blamed on simply exhaustion. But it was also noted that there have been other lines said on the NWA shows that Lagana has edited out that would also qualify as poor taste stuff."" line I shared earlier to do it. Like verbatim, over and over, the claim is that someone who isn't Dave Lagana edited the show and didn't know better and was thrown to the lambs but it's Dave Lagana editing it, he by his own admission makes big edits to the program to trim out the fat and is very tight in what he's doing, he sees his task as filtering out these things and has done so previously. Anyone who keeps countering this with 'what ifs' that go against these openly stated facts is at best just not reading the posts of people who disagree with them and at worst is just intentionally omitting them to keep pushing claims in service of something else. |
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Nov 25, 2019 17:41:53 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay. Didn't you just say the admin was "siding with fascists" a few hours ago? Anyway, people can keep harping on the same point over and over but you have to actively being ignoring the public facts of Powerrr's editing process and the ""According to one person very close to the situation, Lagana held himself accountable for his mistake in not editing the line out. This was blamed on simply exhaustion. But it was also noted that there have been other lines said on the NWA shows that Lagana has edited out that would also qualify as poor taste stuff."" line I shared earlier to do it. Like verbatim, over and over, the claim is that someone who isn't Dave Lagana edited the show and didn't know better and was thrown to the lambs but it's Dave Lagana editing it, he by his own admission makes big edits to the program to trim out the fat and is very tight in what he's doing, he sees his task as filtering out these things and has done so previously. Anyone who keeps countering this with 'what ifs' that go against these openly stated facts is at best just not reading the posts of people who disagree with them and at worst is just intentionally omitting them to keep pushing claims in service of something else. I was listening, all you had to do was articulate to me that Lagana himself admitted he edits the show by himself. I was very forthcoming with the fact I do not have any knowledge of the NWA’s production practices. I also wouldn’t exactly cite an unnamed source as a silver bullet for information on the subject. We just lived through the “Saudi’s are holding everyone hostage” misinformation. Also Lagana making big edits doesn’t mean he’s vetting every microsecond. He could be, but then again that’s more reason to attribute this slip to an innocent mistake from somebody who has a lot of work on his plate. I can say “what if” when people are quoting Meltzer as fact...I also try to frame my POV for you to help us understand each other. The fact you’re ignoring our discussion but talking about me is telling... So should Lagana step down? I’m kind of confused as to where the scorched earth ends. This is mostly an exercise in discussion on my end. I want to stress I could careless about the NWA. I’m just trying to understand why people believe anyone needs to pay for the sins of Jim Cornette other than Jim Cornette. Whether you like him or not he has decades of experience and in general a video editor is not tasked with critiquing the commentary of an established star. This is a Youtube show... |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 25, 2019 17:53:07 GMT -5
Didn't you just say the admin was "siding with fascists" a few hours ago? Anyway, people can keep harping on the same point over and over but you have to actively being ignoring the public facts of Powerrr's editing process and the ""According to one person very close to the situation, Lagana held himself accountable for his mistake in not editing the line out. This was blamed on simply exhaustion. But it was also noted that there have been other lines said on the NWA shows that Lagana has edited out that would also qualify as poor taste stuff."" line I shared earlier to do it. Like verbatim, over and over, the claim is that someone who isn't Dave Lagana edited the show and didn't know better and was thrown to the lambs but it's Dave Lagana editing it, he by his own admission makes big edits to the program to trim out the fat and is very tight in what he's doing, he sees his task as filtering out these things and has done so previously. Anyone who keeps countering this with 'what ifs' that go against these openly stated facts is at best just not reading the posts of people who disagree with them and at worst is just intentionally omitting them to keep pushing claims in service of something else. I was listening, all you had to do was articulate to me that Lagana himself admitted he edits the show by himself. I was very forthcoming with the fact I do not have any knowledge of the NWA’s production practices. I also wouldn’t exactly cite an unnamed source as a silver bullet for information on the subject. We just lived through the “Saudi’s are holding everyone hostage” misinformation. Also Lagana making big edits doesn’t mean he’s vetting every microsecond. He could be, but then again that’s more reason to attribute this slip to an innocent mistake from somebody who has a lot of work on his plate. I can say “what if” when people are quoting Meltzer as fact...I also try to frame my POV for you to help us understand each other. The fact you’re ignoring our discussion but talking about me is telling...So should Lagana step down? I’m kind of confused as to where the scorched earth ends. This is mostly an exercise in discussion on my end. I want to stress I could careless about the NWA. I’m just trying to understand why people believe anyone needs to pay for the sins of Jim Cornette other than Jim Cornette. Whether you like him or not he has decades of experience and in general a video editor is not tasked with critiquing the commentary of an established star. This is a Youtube show... You're talking about me 'ignoring our discussion' when I replied to you with information about Powerrr's editing practices and just generally talk about editing--including the validation of my own right to participate, which you apparently wanted some answers about--and then you made two posts responding to other people that included continued statements that run counter to the points I made and continued liking posts running contrary to those presented facts as well, and only swung on around back to me when I started calling out people ignoring posts. So, that's cool I guess. I make the last post in a chain, but despite being left holding the bag I'm still the one who's ignoring the discussion. Going to take CMM's smarter approach and just leave it off here with you because you're really working a strange angle on all of this. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 25, 2019 18:52:37 GMT -5
I was listening, all you had to do was articulate to me that Lagana himself admitted he edits the show by himself. I was very forthcoming with the fact I do not have any knowledge of the NWA’s production practices. I also wouldn’t exactly cite an unnamed source as a silver bullet for information on the subject. We just lived through the “Saudi’s are holding everyone hostage” misinformation. Also Lagana making big edits doesn’t mean he’s vetting every microsecond. He could be, but then again that’s more reason to attribute this slip to an innocent mistake from somebody who has a lot of work on his plate. I can say “what if” when people are quoting Meltzer as fact...I also try to frame my POV for you to help us understand each other. The fact you’re ignoring our discussion but talking about me is telling...So should Lagana step down? I’m kind of confused as to where the scorched earth ends. This is mostly an exercise in discussion on my end. I want to stress I could careless about the NWA. I’m just trying to understand why people believe anyone needs to pay for the sins of Jim Cornette other than Jim Cornette. Whether you like him or not he has decades of experience and in general a video editor is not tasked with critiquing the commentary of an established star. This is a Youtube show... You're talking about me 'ignoring our discussion' when I replied to you with information about Powerrr's editing practices and just generally talk about editing--including the validation of my own right to participate, which you apparently wanted some answers about--and then you made two posts responding to other people that included continued statements that run counter to the points I made and continued liking posts running contrary to those presented facts as well, and only swung on around back to me when I started calling out people ignoring posts. So, that's cool I guess. I make the last post in a chain, but despite being left holding the bag I'm still the one who's ignoring the discussion. Going to take CMM's smarter approach and just leave it off here with you because you're really working a strange angle on all of this. Might as well leave it be I'm just going to stick with the idea that they were incompetent then. No one is saying comb through the whole show with a fine tooth comb but considering you have weeks to edit these shows, you would think they are listening to this stuff and editing everything but I guess not even though Lagana says he does Anyway, back to the idiot Cornette |
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Post by ogreknee on Nov 25, 2019 19:09:04 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay. Nah....if something is in bad taste and racist that shit is offensive. What level of racism somebody is okay with is up to that person. But as a filipino american with chinese ancestory who got stereotyped by police and my white classmates any form of racism is bad. But yeah sure it is up to each person to decide what kind of racism and how much they are okay with Some love it. Others see it as punching down But hey i mean sure ching chong bitches.... The thing is lagana retweeted white supremacist gad saad. A tweet about how white men should be thanked for everything. I do not think lagana a hollywood writer gives a shit about the plight of minorities |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,329 
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Post by chazraps on Nov 25, 2019 20:02:33 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay. It's a racist joke about black people and fried chicken. How much diversity of opinion is really valid? |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Nov 25, 2019 20:15:37 GMT -5
This thread has shown the best and the worst of the board. I suspect that it will eventually be locked, but I'd hate to see it go away, because it's just so FAN, the good and the bad.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 25, 2019 20:17:14 GMT -5
Does anyone honestly believe they combed through the whole show? I think they did minimal edits and didnt listen to the commentary because Cornette has been saying a lot of dumb **** before that. Austin Idol I dont mind because its tongue and cheek and hes in character. Cornette was just being himself an ***hole you kind've have to if you want to call what you are doing editing. for one dumping all the footage into the computer only happens in real time. secondly you need to make sure the audio didn't f*** up anywhere... |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 25, 2019 20:21:14 GMT -5
To some of you, this remark was outrageous. The video editor apparently did not see it in the same light. I have read a wide range of opinions on this topic from people who are not directly involved. Not everyone is required to conform to your point of view or forsee that you might be offended. There is diversity of opinion on the subject, and that is okay. It's a racist joke about black people and fried chicken. How much diversity of opinion is really valid? Dave Chappelle so obvious language |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,329
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Post by chazraps on Nov 25, 2019 20:24:50 GMT -5
Went to pick up my nephew from soccer practice. It's Friday, and so I thought I'd surprise him with one of those ice cream sundaes in a baseball helmet. I pull up to the field at Husek Park, and he I notice as the other kids run to the car after practice, he's got his head down low as he slowly paces. I can't tell if maybe he's exhausted, or frustrated with a scrimmage or still struggling a bit after being moved from right defense to mid-fielder. He gets to the car and I surprise him with the sundae, which only emits the slightest of twinkles. "Oh dear, something's really weighing in on him" I thought. He's 11, so I assume he's right around the dreaded 6th grade depression we all go through, when classmates become clique-y and all the changes in our bodies make us question our place in the world. We drive for a bit, at first I wait for him to tell me organically as we have a pretty good relationship and I don't want to pry or further push him into frustration. Once I turn off University on to 35th, I ask him if something's bothering him. A slight welling of tears form in his eyes and he looks up and says "Uncle Charlie, it's..." and then he drops his head. I grow further concerned, so once I pass the Hardee's on Northdale I pull over. He looks back up and, with a quiet timbre in his voice that becomes deafening in its fragility, he whimpers "It's Jim Cornette. I can't stop thinking about the things he's said and continued to say. After Tuesday, it's affecting my grades, my standing with friends, even my status in the parish. I know it's not healthy, but it's been three days straight and I can't stop!" I stretch my arms open as he unbuckles and embraces me. "I can't stop either. I know the pain. Why can't we just ignore him instead of circling around the same 47 pages saying the exact same thing with no deviation or nuance in the discussion? We just keep talking about how much we hate him without exploring any sort of broader social ramifications in the discussion. It's just how much we hate Jim. It's not healthy, but we can't stop!" He sinks his head into my shoulder like the cherry into once-hot fudge reservoir at the top of the sundae as it begins to overflow on to the vintage white-leather interior. Cornette hate has consumed us. If only someone had stopped us. Wanna know the rest? Hey, buy the rights. How Bizarre. Every time I look around, this thread is in my face, with four new pages and bad takes hotter than a ghost pepper. You, chaz, on the other hand, are an absolute f***ing treasure. Love ya, Mothman! |
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