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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 16, 2019 20:37:36 GMT -5
I think it'd be more apt that the manager didn't lock up and someone broke in... That's on whoever didn't lock up. Not the owner who left someone the keys to do it. Right, that's a better example. The owner can't be responsible for everything every single second of each day, you have people for a reason. If you trust them with a paycheck then you have to trust them to take responsibility for some of the worked tasks. That's what jobs are for. You pay people big money to do their job and know what to do if you aren't around
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 20:41:23 GMT -5
Right, that's a better example. The owner can't be responsible for everything every single second of each day, you have people for a reason. If you trust them with a paycheck then you have to trust them to take responsibility for some of the worked tasks. That's what jobs are for. You pay people big money to do their job and know what to do if you aren't around I'm trying to think of the jobs I've had in my life and I can't think of any situation where an owner got in trouble instead of those who are locking up the building if it dealt within the latter's schedule. That's just not how jobs work.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Dec 16, 2019 20:59:16 GMT -5
I have to admit, I have to agree that one of the big bosses should have been at a PPV.
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Sicho100
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Post by Sicho100 on Dec 16, 2019 21:14:11 GMT -5
They had someone there to do it and they failed. So then, they didn't have someone there to do it then and one of them should be obligated to be at a PPV. It's not a random SmackDown house show. Exactly the person failed and they will be replaced That makes no sense that you would call for the figure heads head over an employee not doing their job. Once again, they trust people to do their job because they have much more to do. HHH has much more to do, Vince does not need to be traveling like that at his age. This is most likely one of the rare times neither was there so i'm not going to blow their head off for missing a show For comparison sake, Bobby Fish looked to reinjured his knee 2-3 weeks ago and they took him out the match during the break and added Roddy Strong. It was a precaution as Fish turned out to be fine but if they took someone out for a knee injury best believe they would do the same for a concussion People didn't do their jobs it is really that simple. Mistakes were made and will be corrected 1) Vince & HHH aren't figure heads. They are literally the ones in charge, it's not just a fancy title. If anything, it's Heyman & Prichard that are the figure heads. 2) If Vince is too old to travel to PPVs, then he's too old to have the job. Period. Saying, "Look, why would you expect Vince to be able to actually do his job?" is...not a defense. 3) This is very much a "buck stops here" situation. You are quite literally saying, "Just throw an underling under the bus, the guy in charge shouldn't be held accountable!" It's like saying the CEO of Wells Fargo shouldn't have faced blow back over the bank's rampant fraud, because, hey, it's not like he was the one actually setting up fraudulent accounts.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 16, 2019 21:18:13 GMT -5
Exactly the person failed and they will be replaced That makes no sense that you would call for the figure heads head over an employee not doing their job. Once again, they trust people to do their job because they have much more to do. HHH has much more to do, Vince does not need to be traveling like that at his age. This is most likely one of the rare times neither was there so i'm not going to blow their head off for missing a show For comparison sake, Bobby Fish looked to reinjured his knee 2-3 weeks ago and they took him out the match during the break and added Roddy Strong. It was a precaution as Fish turned out to be fine but if they took someone out for a knee injury best believe they would do the same for a concussion People didn't do their jobs it is really that simple. Mistakes were made and will be corrected 3) This is very much a "buck stops here" situation. You are quite literally saying, "Just throw an underling under the bus, the guy in charge shouldn't be held accountable!" It's like saying the CEO of Wells Fargo shouldn't have faced blow back over the bank's rampant fraud, because, hey, it's not like he was the one actually setting up fraudulent accounts. This isn't bank fraud tho equivalent tho Listen, idk what else to tell y'all. Ideally one of them would be there BUT if that isn't the case their is a person in charge to handle that side and if they f*** this up, this is on them because they are prepped and prepared for that situation
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Post by Texas Tornado on Dec 16, 2019 21:34:15 GMT -5
Vince has gotten people too used to the idea of the owner being around for everything when that is definitely NOT something people at the top of major companies do.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 16, 2019 21:36:33 GMT -5
Vince has gotten people too used to the idea of the owner being around for everything when that is definitely NOT something people at the top of major companies do. Well, he hasn't trained anyone to do what he does for whatever reason. Well, he has Hunter. But Hunter wasn't there either. So there's no excuse. And again. It wasn't a house show. It wasn't RAW, SmackDown or NXT. It wasn't even an average PPV with non-gimmick matches. It was Tables Ladders and Chairs. There's no excuse for Vince or Hunter to not be there.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Dec 16, 2019 21:37:34 GMT -5
Thread is getting weird.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 16, 2019 21:50:41 GMT -5
Yes, let's get back to Kairi and her finally learning how to use a keyblade in KH3
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 17, 2019 0:28:27 GMT -5
God, this was sick to even just see clips of.
Regarding responsibility, I don't want to drag Charlotte too badly; it's tough when you're a performer, "on stage" in the heat of the moment and aren't 100% aware of what's going on with a situation like this. That said...come on, once Kairi folded over on that spear, you have to check if something's up with her, you've worked her enough of late to probably know that's not something she'd do for no reason.
But yeah, the refs, backstage people, etc...what the absolute hell? How does NOBODY pick up on there being a problem? You're putting on a really dangerous match type, surround the ringside area with officials to keep an eye out for shit like this and watch the monitors in gorilla, people could tell something was up before anything was actually done.
On the whole, this is part of what I don't really like about these overly gimmicked matches. I'm not one to bash gimmicks matches or even death matches to a point, but when there's SO many points of impact, such a large ringside space to work with as there is at WWE shows, and so many ornately set up spots that are always just a few inches away from going horribly awry (see Big E nearly getting killed during his suplex onto a ladder spot during the tag title match), it just feels like there's so, so, SO much that can go wrong, and it's all for minimal payoff since WWE so rarely actually builds feuds to suit these gimmick match-themed PPVs in the first place. Like, you can book an actual GCW style death match and most of the time I can watch it without feeling like the wrestlers are in absolutely serious danger given how they structure their spots (though accidents still happen, like when G-Raver, I think, cut his arm on glass during a spot), but for a company that often makes wrestling not look particularly real, WWE ends up asking some of these guys and gals to take some really bad risks during these gimmick matches.
And yeah, I also 100% agree that there needs to be a reassessment of throwing smaller performers, particularly smaller women like Bliss and Sane, into the WWE schedule grind without considering the potential there is for worse physical outcomes from having someone who's undersized bump that often. Maybe that didn't really have an impact on what happened last night, I don't know, but it feels fair to point out.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Dec 17, 2019 0:36:23 GMT -5
Vince has gotten people too used to the idea of the owner being around for everything when that is definitely NOT something people at the top of major companies do. Well, he hasn't trained anyone to do what he does for whatever reason. Well, he has Hunter. But Hunter wasn't there either. So there's no excuse. And again. It wasn't a house show. It wasn't RAW, SmackDown or NXT. It wasn't even an average PPV with non-gimmick matches. It was Tables Ladders and Chairs. There's no excuse for Vince or Hunter to not be there. Dude it’s not like they stayed home and chilled. They had other responsibilities. Everyone is on their ass to chill out and now this is going to make Vince and co even more hands on,
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 17, 2019 0:40:09 GMT -5
Well, he hasn't trained anyone to do what he does for whatever reason. Well, he has Hunter. But Hunter wasn't there either. So there's no excuse. And again. It wasn't a house show. It wasn't RAW, SmackDown or NXT. It wasn't even an average PPV with non-gimmick matches. It was Tables Ladders and Chairs. There's no excuse for Vince or Hunter to not be there. Dude it’s not like they stayed home and chilled. They had other responsibilities. Everyone is on their ass to chill out and now this is going to make Vince and co even more hands on, It's a PPV involving some of their most dangerous gimmick matches. If they had more pressing responsibilities than being there to ensure that their PPV event runs without a massive f***ing issue like this, their priorities are f***ed. This isn't just an oversight, they let everyone who works for them down by neither of them being there.
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 17, 2019 3:51:08 GMT -5
Charlotte could've realised sooner, and didn't. The refs & staff ABSOLUTELY could've realised sooner, they're not in there running about working spots and have multiple view points, and that's the big question mark I have over this.
I don't it's unacceptable for Vince & Hunter to delegate. Vince particularly needs to do it more. This kind of situation should be fool-proofed for anyone to handle anyway, clearly it wasn't.
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Post by eJm on Dec 17, 2019 4:34:59 GMT -5
I don't it's unacceptable for Vince & Hunter to delegate. Vince particularly needs to do it more. This kind of situation should be fool-proofed for anyone to handle anyway, clearly it wasn't. Pretty much, Vince ideally would be able to figure out who to trust in these roles not just because of the XFL coming up, his own general health long term but also because no company's ever grown with one person doing everything at once with full responsibility. You need to trust others to do the work you would do and give their own input too. My fear with all this is that he doesn't do that anymore, works himself harder, makes the product more stagnant and waits until he dies to delegate.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 17, 2019 6:09:59 GMT -5
If Vince wants to be The Big Business Man of Business and not be sitting there live producing the show every show, then absolutely. That'd be better for everyone. But as long as he's being as involved and as controlling as he is, he's still the coach, and the coach doesn't give everyone the play and then go solicit anonymous sex in the bathroom, the coach is there on the side watching it and keeping it.
That said, whoever did nothing about this was on some shit, and the question of who it was makes for a really awful feeling. I'd imagine Heyman or Prichard was on lead there as respective 'heads' of the two main shows and people in Vince's inner circle. And for how much experience both of them have, letting that go on is inexcusable.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 17, 2019 9:51:49 GMT -5
Vince has gotten people too used to the idea of the owner being around for everything when that is definitely NOT something people at the top of major companies do. Well, he hasn't trained anyone to do what he does for whatever reason. Well, he has Hunter. But Hunter wasn't there either. So there's no excuse. And again. It wasn't a house show. It wasn't RAW, SmackDown or NXT. It wasn't even an average PPV with non-gimmick matches. It was Tables Ladders and Chairs. There's no excuse for Vince or Hunter to not be there. This is bonkers. Literally a dozen posts with cold eyed certainty about something you don't have the slightest bit of information about. Like, do you know what goes on backstage in regards to who's safeguarding the wellness of the wrestlers? What protocols are in place for injuries? What Hunter and Vince's responsibilities are to deal with anything like this during an event? What changes when they're not there? How often they're not there? It's just pontificating on something for the sake of doing so.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 17, 2019 10:01:24 GMT -5
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Post by eJm on Dec 17, 2019 10:02:36 GMT -5
Good on her for doing that. That’s also not her f***ing job.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 17, 2019 10:12:31 GMT -5
I’d have been fascinated to see how the match would have gone had Sane been taken out of the match as soon as possible after she got hurt, just to see dastardly heel Asuka fight one-on-two against the two most dominant women wrestlers in WWE and somehow win, after spending the last two weeks struggling to put them away individually two-on-one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 10:15:16 GMT -5
Meltz and Alvarez trashed the refs and officials for this when they reviewed the show. Said it wasn't Charlotte's fault nor the fault of any of the wrestlers, it's the fault of those others because it's their jobs to keep a look out on this.
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