Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Dec 23, 2019 12:13:05 GMT -5
The sad thing is, the guy actually seems to have a pretty solid grasp on the business. He's a lot smarter than people seem to think That is wheee I disagree. Like he clearly understands some old school teachings but what it means and how to use? No. For example: The Above about the finisher.He understands it is a big deal but why it doesn't work for him. Or why it is not a good idea to no-sell Becky's offense, or make her look like a damsel in distress. It mostly seems he just uses the "I am not cool" to defend his position and lack of appeal in big storylines.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 23, 2019 20:54:20 GMT -5
How exactly can one distinguish this "I want to see you get your ass kicked" from "go away" heat? To me, all the boos sound the same. If a face is getting this mythical "go away" heat you can make educated guesses on why, but with a heel, there's no way to tell. If you're giving a heel positive accolades such as referring to him as cool or bad ass, then he's not doing his job. Plus, if Corbin didn't have ANY kind of heat, fans wouldn't react to him AT ALL. In fact, we wouldn't even have a discussion about him since he'd be so irrelevant. I personally believe this whole X-pac heat thing was created by some internet smark who had this "non-kayfabe" heat for him and then the IWC just rolled with it. I doubt people in the business(wrestlers, commentators, etc etc) have even HEARD of that term, let alone debate who has it and who's getting "genuine" heat. If a heel is getting booed, you might as assume its because of his heelish deeds and thats that. do people actively change the channel when he's on? that's usually a good indicator. Then why can't somebody do research by looking through quarter hour breakdowns? If a noticeable number of people change the channel every time he shows up, then we can say he has "go away" heat and the company can depush him accordingly.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,826
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Post by Dub H on Dec 23, 2019 21:09:24 GMT -5
do people actively change the channel when he's on? that's usually a good indicator. Then why can't somebody do research by looking through quarter hour breakdowns? If a noticeable number of people change the channel every time he shows up, then we can say he has "go away" heat and the company can depush him accordingly. Corbin is also a constant throught the whole show. He opens ,he appears in the middle and he main events all in one night. If someone is brave enough to venture through all the numbers but you basically know you are getting a corbin full show
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Post by flowercity on Dec 23, 2019 22:44:22 GMT -5
Corbin is ratings poison. It is X-Pac heat.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 24, 2019 4:39:37 GMT -5
For me it.s X-Pac heat. He is a legit channel changer for me instead of someone you hate so much you wants to see someone to beat him up.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 24, 2019 5:52:18 GMT -5
This is how I feel, but the past three years makes it incredibly hard for me to see him as a top heel. Maybe it is main roster booking, maybe it's him, or a combination. The king gimmick isn’t bad, actually. I think the dog food thing was just a big issue for most because of it reeking of Vince McMahon’s Good Shit(TM). Also the stupid "Big Dog" segment, and then to cap it all of, Corbin wins at TLC. Logical storytelling is Roman should have squashed Corbin at TLC, and been done with the feud. But nope, after shit like the "Big Dog" segment, and dog food nonsense, Corbin wins. Why?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 6:36:50 GMT -5
The king gimmick isn’t bad, actually. I think the dog food thing was just a big issue for most because of it reeking of Vince McMahon’s Good Shit(TM). Also the stupid "Big Dog" segment, and then to cap it all of, Corbin wins at TLC. Logical storytelling is Roman should have squashed Corbin at TLC, and been done with the feud. But nope, after shit like the "Big Dog" segment, and dog food nonsense, Corbin wins. Why? Between shit like that and Seth "slaying the Beast" at SummerSlam only for Brock to end up right back where he was as Raw's absentee champion like two months later, it's no wonder people don't care for WWE babyfaces.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 24, 2019 6:56:03 GMT -5
Also the stupid "Big Dog" segment, and then to cap it all of, Corbin wins at TLC. Logical storytelling is Roman should have squashed Corbin at TLC, and been done with the feud. But nope, after shit like the "Big Dog" segment, and dog food nonsense, Corbin wins. Why? Between shit like that and Seth "slaying the Beast" at SummerSlam only for Brock to end up right back where he was as Raw's absentee champion like two months later, it's no wonder people don't care for WWE babyfaces. But does that come back to the earlier thing about the heels comeuppance not matching up to what the heel does to the face to start with? Like, the heels get to be the most evil, hateful people and constantly wear down the faces. They do so much, that it feels like the babyface merely beating them in a match isn’t enough to make up for it, it feels like they have to utterly murderise them or get rid of them from the company altogether (which NEVER happens), for there to be any satisfaction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 7:01:53 GMT -5
I think it's a little of both. His actions do get direct response and he is capable of getting a crowd riled up, and there are cheers when he gets beaten up... but it's also abundantly clear that his heat isn't actually translating to people actually wanting to watch him.
And I really don't buy for a second that a heel's goal above all else should be to get boos. That's certainly a goal, but it should come second to being entertaining. That's why I always found Punk to be an awful heel, he'd go so heavy in trying to be detestable that it just made his segments unwatchable.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 24, 2019 7:26:29 GMT -5
Between shit like that and Seth "slaying the Beast" at SummerSlam only for Brock to end up right back where he was as Raw's absentee champion like two months later, it's no wonder people don't care for WWE babyfaces. But does that come back to the earlier thing about the heels comeuppance not matching up to what the heel does to the face to start with? Like, the heels get to be the most evil, hateful people and constantly wear down the faces. They do so much, that it feels like the babyface merely beating them in a match isn’t enough to make up for it, it feels like they have to utterly murderise them or get rid of them from the company altogether (which NEVER happens), for there to be any satisfaction. Which is why Roman should have just brutalized Corbin. The match should have been 10 minutes at most, and be Roman just killing Corbin.
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 24, 2019 9:14:57 GMT -5
Then why can't somebody do research by looking through quarter hour breakdowns? If a noticeable number of people change the channel every time he shows up, then we can say he has "go away" heat and the company can depush him accordingly. Corbin is also a constant throught the whole show. He opens ,he appears in the middle and he main events all in one night. If someone is brave enough to venture through all the numbers but you basically know you are getting a corbin full show Then maybe we should change it to "Corbin Heat." Did anybody change the channel when X-pac showed up, or was it some lone smark's non-kayfabe hatred for him to coin that term? I know the WWF pointed out those "X-pac sucks" chants and Edge made fun of him for being stuck in 1998(that was 2001), but was there any proof that people changed the channel when he showed up on TV? Nobody has ever seemed to answer that.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Dec 24, 2019 12:01:01 GMT -5
I think it's X-Pac heat.
I wanna like the guy. They have a big dude who played in the NFL and did Golden Gloves. He should be like Biker Taker with the 24/7 title. Just wrecking guys. But no, he plays dress up and acts like a middle school bully.
It's corny as hell, and not entertaining or funny at all. Corbin could be good, and it wouldn't take much to save him, but right now? Jesus Christ, he's unbearable.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 24, 2019 14:12:12 GMT -5
I think it's a little of both. His actions do get direct response and he is capable of getting a crowd riled up, and there are cheers when he gets beaten up... but it's also abundantly clear that his heat isn't actually translating to people actually wanting to watch him. And I really don't buy for a second that a heel's goal above all else should be to get boos. That's certainly a goal, but it should come second to being entertaining. That's why I always found Punk to be an awful heel, he'd go so heavy in trying to be detestable that it just made his segments unwatchable. Yes, a Heel's main goal is to be entertaining. More over that they make you WANT to see him get his ass kicked. Just getting booed is not the end game. It's why Cheap Heat is well called cheap heat... yeah you'll get a boo for the short term... but if that's all you have you're really not doing your job.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 24, 2019 14:31:58 GMT -5
I think that's what separates Corbin from the truly great heels: it's too easy for him to become overbearing to the point where he gets people to change their channels. People might have a problem with "cool heels" that get cheers, but at least they tend to be entertaining.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 24, 2019 14:48:08 GMT -5
He straddles the line.
He's capable of getting legit heel heat, and often does.
But the way he has to deliver shitty material like he does in this Roman feud, it turns into go-away heat, partially because you know he'd defend having to do such stupid angles as "I'm not here to be cool", instead of "look, I don't write this."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 15:47:20 GMT -5
Before I swore off entirely, Corbin had full x-pac heat with me. Much like champion Jinder Mahal, I would just turn off any segment or match he was in.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 24, 2019 18:11:21 GMT -5
I think it's a little of both. His actions do get direct response and he is capable of getting a crowd riled up, and there are cheers when he gets beaten up... but it's also abundantly clear that his heat isn't actually translating to people actually wanting to watch him. And I really don't buy for a second that a heel's goal above all else should be to get boos. That's certainly a goal, but it should come second to being entertaining. That's why I always found Punk to be an awful heel, he'd go so heavy in trying to be detestable that it just made his segments unwatchable. Yes, a Heel's main goal is to be entertaining. More over that they make you WANT to see him get his ass kicked. Just getting booed is not the end game. It's why Cheap Heat is well called cheap heat... yeah you'll get a boo for the short term... but if that's all you have you're really not doing your job. Problem is, guy isn’t getting his ass kicked enough. For whatever reason, he keeps randomly going over people because reasons.
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segaz
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Post by segaz on Dec 27, 2019 21:26:21 GMT -5
Heat is heat. You shouldn’t think any heels are “cool”. The idea is to piss you off and want to see them get their ass kicked. I dunno about that, we see a lot of cool villains in all media. We still recognise they are going to be in a confrontation of some sort down the line. The two aren't exclusive. But too many can be detrimental also.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 22:15:34 GMT -5
Yes, a Heel's main goal is to be entertaining. More over that they make you WANT to see him get his ass kicked. Just getting booed is not the end game. It's why Cheap Heat is well called cheap heat... yeah you'll get a boo for the short term... but if that's all you have you're really not doing your job. Problem is, guy isn’t getting his ass kicked enough. For whatever reason, he keeps randomly going over people because reasons. However, I feel like the issue, at least from the vibes I get on this forum, is no amount of beatings will never be good enough to satiate the contempt against Baron Corbin due to how hard, and how much he was pushed for much of 2018 and going into all of 2019. The blowback against Corbin has gotten to a point in which Corbin, right now, could suffer cartoonish level ass whoopings every segment and people would groan about it. They want him off television PERMANENTLY. But, I legit enjoy Corbin. The man knows he's a heel and unlike most wrestlers, is aware at least that he's not trying to be liked, but he's not doing it in a way that going for the low-hanging fruit, such as being an out-of-touch racist and calling people "snowflakes" in an era of "wokeness" (*cough*Lars*cough*), or is sticking to generic standbys such as "Local Sports Team Sucks". He knows that people want a wrestler that is fun, flashy, and is either affable or witty, and that the old, John Laurinaitis model of bringing in bodybuilders or former football players (which Corbin was one) to become wrestlers has become the antithesis to the modern day wrestler the hardcore audience seemingly wants. Ergo, he is the Anti Wrestler; Big, Boring, and "Bland". He's long resigned himself to the fact he will never be a darling of the so-called IWC due to his appearance and his heritage so rather than chase adulation, he's chosen the other option, and that is become everything they hate. There is a sense of magnificence to this that I doubt will be understood right now, and that's for a good reason. The problem is a combination of Baron hadn't quite figured out the comfort zone for his character yet, and WWE being WWE. Baron Corbin can play a whiny coward, but he can also play a totally unrepentant shitbag, yet by the time he's figured out those kinks, WWE put him in too far a position above where he should have been for people to be invested in him in a positive manner, creating the reality that he's damaged goods. And WWE is still keeping him at a prominent spot thanks to the Roman Reigns feud, which doesn't help his presentation to the general audience, who will hate him on principle, and especially the hardcore fans, who are frustrated at seeing him on a weekly basis.
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