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Post by Rave on Jun 29, 2020 17:46:08 GMT -5
Hey, you know what's feeling really emotionally satisfying right now? Remembering all the shitty, shitty booking Quack did. Hey, remember when his character was a psychopath and ending the careers of Gekido members, and Jigsaw was against it, and we all thought of course this was leading to a Quack heel turn but nope Jigsaw turned and Quack was just right? Remember when three outsider teams won King of Trios in a row? And how, for one of them, the runner-ups got to the finals by getting their asses kicked really bad in the semifinals match? Oh, hey, and Mustache Mountain got the title, and then went to England with no plans for whether they'd defend it or not, and they just didn't, and then the titles were vacant? Remember the Chuck Taylor storyline where one guy came in, trademarked the name Chuck Taylor, and then the real Chuck Taylor went through all these other names before settling on Dustin, his real name? And it felt like there was no conclusion to it? I really hated that storyline. Keeping track of points during that was a nightmare. Nobody would clarify who the two delinquent points Taylor had prior to the mess belonged to, nor would they clarify if any points Taylor earned after that persisted with each name change. Also took forever just to get that storyline onto the main show and it pretty much just petered out after that.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 29, 2020 19:32:03 GMT -5
Hey, you know what's feeling really emotionally satisfying right now? Remembering all the shitty, shitty booking Quack did. Hey, remember when his character was a psychopath and ending the careers of Gekido members, and Jigsaw was against it, and we all thought of course this was leading to a Quack heel turn but nope Jigsaw turned and Quack was just right? Remember when three outsider teams won King of Trios in a row? And how, for one of them, the runner-ups got to the finals by getting their asses kicked really bad in the semifinals match? Oh, hey, and Mustache Mountain got the title, and then went to England with no plans for whether they'd defend it or not, and they just didn't, and then the titles were vacant? Remember the Kondron "Snowflake" angle, and how Missile Assault Ant/Man was revealed to be a super soldier and have blown up a school bus full of children, killing them? Yeah that was a completely and total mess... Hell how about how everyone was supposed to totally get behind Eddie Kingston when he turned on The Flood after laughing and watching Equinox III and Create a Wrestler II basically die? That was fun too.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 29, 2020 19:38:08 GMT -5
One of the most frustrating booking trails for me was how they booked Donst and Hammermeir in the end. Up to the Gavin match where Jakob got his revenge on Donst. There was this whole GRAND PLAN booking where Donst was built up as a pompous ass, lost to Wicked, got more vicious, then shaved he and Jakob's head, then he lost to Eddie, then he took his aggressions out on Gavin, Jakob, Steve Weiner, and Veronica, only for it all to blow up in his face.
Then the follow up is for Donst to get written out in the shutdown angle in a very weird way where it almost seemed like he was under a medically induced trance, and Jakob, who was set to be a white hot babyface everyone wanted to cheer, became a Dr. Doom knockoff with a new BDK that... was short lived and never really went anywhere aside from him losing to Kingston, which would also be Kingston's last match with the company.
Donsy and Jakob had such a compelling storyline, so much so they even made Gavin's inclusion into it fun and emotional, for it to end like it did, was just sad, and a big fat letdown if I'm honest. Glad Donst is still doing well on the Indies, would love to see him get a bigger shot somewhere still, while Jakob has his training school now.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Jun 29, 2020 19:44:57 GMT -5
Hey, you know what's feeling really emotionally satisfying right now? Remembering all the shitty, shitty booking Quack did. Hey, remember when his character was a psychopath and ending the careers of Gekido members, and Jigsaw was against it, and we all thought of course this was leading to a Quack heel turn but nope Jigsaw turned and Quack was just right? Remember when three outsider teams won King of Trios in a row? And how, for one of them, the runner-ups got to the finals by getting their asses kicked really bad in the semifinals match? Oh, hey, and Mustache Mountain got the title, and then went to England with no plans for whether they'd defend it or not, and they just didn't, and then the titles were vacant? Remember the Kondron "Snowflake" angle, and how Missile Assault Ant/Man was revealed to be a super soldier and have blown up a school bus full of children, killing them? Yeah that was a completely and total mess... Hell how about how everyone was supposed to totally get behind Eddie Kingston when he turned on The Flood after laughing and watching Equinox III and Create a Wrestler II basically die? That was fun too. And then it turned out that MAM didn't even do that and it was the real thing who did, who only rolled in to get his diary back and didn't even seem to show the remorse that the brainwashed fake did. Yeesh. I remember saying WTF to the Eddie thing pretty much the entire time it was happening. How in the hell was he s'posed to be the good guy? Were we just s'posed to accept him back with a "My bad"? Bullshit to that. Since we're discussing terrible booking, how about the Challenge of the Immortals? I admittedly liked how it ended (though the past few days have painted that ending in a fairly bad light), but getting there...woof.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 29, 2020 19:52:00 GMT -5
Remember the Kondron "Snowflake" angle, and how Missile Assault Ant/Man was revealed to be a super soldier and have blown up a school bus full of children, killing them? Yeah that was a completely and total mess... Hell how about how everyone was supposed to totally get behind Eddie Kingston when he turned on The Flood after laughing and watching Equinox III and Create a Wrestler II basically die? That was fun too. And then it turned out that MAM didn't even do that and it was the real thing who did, who only rolled in to get his diary back and didn't even seem to show the remorse that the brainwashed fake did. Yeesh. I remember saying WTF to the Eddie thing pretty much the entire time it was happening. How in the hell was he s'posed to be the good guy? Were we just s'posed to accept him back with a "My bad"? Bullshit to that. Since we're discussing terrible booking, how about the Challenge of the Immortals? I admittedly liked how it ended (though the past few days have painted that ending in a fairly bad light), but getting there...woof. Challenge of The Immortals was CHIKARA's inevitable downfall. A years worth of basically filler, and CHIKARA relocating almost all of their matches to their WrestleFactory location. It was them basically showing what the direction would be for the company going forward, a "Thanks for coming" for the Shutdown/Flood angle along with a ton of their roster and talent leaving as well or never sticking around for long. In the end, it all just felt like people were duped and that's why CHIKARA lost a large chunk of their audience.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 29, 2020 20:10:23 GMT -5
The Gekido angle was really the first time I really started to lose interest. I felt that they could have done better with the angle including the already discussed Jigsaw turn.
Also felt for as great as the setup was the Flood payoff was awful too
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 29, 2020 20:17:17 GMT -5
The Gekido angle was really the first time I really started to lose interest. I felt that they could have done better with the angle including the already discussed Jigsaw turn. Also felt for as great as the setup was the Flood payoff was awful too The GEKIDO angle was ruined because Kyle Matthews revealed he was 17 at some point. That's really what did the team in. For how intricate Quack really is when it comes to storylines and gimmicks he was always so quick to completely change something and upend a wrestlers push and even tenure in the company, for the most trivial of nonsesne.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 29, 2020 20:19:20 GMT -5
The Gekido angle was really the first time I really started to lose interest. I felt that they could have done better with the angle including the already discussed Jigsaw turn. Also felt for as great as the setup was the Flood payoff was awful too The GEKIDO angle was ruined because Kyle Matthews revealed he was 17 at some point. That's really what did the team in. For how intricate Quack really is when it comes to storylines and gimmicks he was always so quick to completely change something and upend a wrestlers push and even tenure in the company, for the most trivial of nonsesne. Did he announce it or did the fans recognize his voice from a promo?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 29, 2020 20:22:38 GMT -5
The GEKIDO angle was ruined because Kyle Matthews revealed he was 17 at some point. That's really what did the team in. For how intricate Quack really is when it comes to storylines and gimmicks he was always so quick to completely change something and upend a wrestlers push and even tenure in the company, for the most trivial of nonsesne. Did he announce it or did the fans recognize his voice from a promo? I don't know exactly how he did it, maybe on Facebook or something? Or an Indie show he was at? But I know he said it and Quack found out somehow and he went from dangerous superweapon of a wrestler to Quack just straight up killing him in that tag match with all four Quackendrivers and the Lightening lock Like in retrospect it was a very HHH move of him.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jun 29, 2020 21:22:42 GMT -5
God, this is heartbreaking. Xyberhawx2000 was one of my new favorites. I considered them like a new Colony. And they were fun to watch. I know he doesn't come on here very much anymore, but razerhawk2000, Thank You for all the good times and great memories. Keep on flying, my friend. #CawCaw
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 29, 2020 21:54:03 GMT -5
One of the most frustrating booking trails for me was how they booked Donst and Hammermeir in the end. Up to the Gavin match where Jakob got his revenge on Donst. There was this whole GRAND PLAN booking where Donst was built up as a pompous ass, lost to Wicked, got more vicious, then shaved he and Jakob's head, then he lost to Eddie, then he took his aggressions out on Gavin, Jakob, Steve Weiner, and Veronica, only for it all to blow up in his face. Then the follow up is for Donst to get written out in the shutdown angle in a very weird way where it almost seemed like he was under a medically induced trance, and Jakob, who was set to be a white hot babyface everyone wanted to cheer, became a Dr. Doom knockoff with a new BDK that... was short lived and never really went anywhere aside from him losing to Kingston, which would also be Kingston's last match with the company. Donsy and Jakob had such a compelling storyline, so much so they even made Gavin's inclusion into it fun and emotional, for it to end like it did, was just sad, and a big fat letdown if I'm honest. Glad Donst is still doing well on the Indies, would love to see him get a bigger shot somewhere still, while Jakob has his training school now. I'm guessing they wanted to leave the door open to Donst suddenly returning as a big-bad, but Quack burned the bridge. I am actually very impressed with what turned out to be the end of the storyline, with Gavin Loudspeaker of all people having a match with Donst. I introduced Chikara to people with that show (right before the shutdown...) and they were all like "they know how gay this is, right?" I choose to believe they did know: it was explicitly coded as a valorous gay man saving another man from his abusive gay relationship. Although, knowing what we know about Quack, maybe not.
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Post by dragonbone on Jul 1, 2020 12:12:41 GMT -5
I was fine with Chikara until the "Secret Season". I mean, I had issues with some of the booking prior to that, but I figured "Hey, it's wrestling. I always have issues with some of the booking". But when the "Secret Season" came around I thought it was a mismanaged trainwreck, and the seasons afterwards were largely the same.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 1, 2020 12:23:20 GMT -5
I was fine with Chikara until the "Secret Season". I mean, I had issues with some of the booking prior to that, but I figured "Hey, it's wrestling. I always have issues with some of the booking". But when the "Secret Season" came around I thought it was a mismanaged trainwreck, and the seasons afterwards were largely the same. The Secret Season was a panic button hit because Quack was losing a chunk of the roster including Kimber Lee at the time to WWE. So in order for the storylines to make sense or have a "satisfying conclusion" he did some weird season. Not only did it frustrate me that he never did this for even bigger angles if there was no other choice like Claudio and Kingston (Which instead just dropped due to Cesaro's callup), but watching Mantis win the Grand Championship in a "Secret Season" that wasn't in front of really any actual fans since the seasons crowd was like close friends, family, and staff, it just felt like a complete and total robbery of the investment and time put in only emphasized by the fact Mantis didn't even have a long title reign after the fact. Everything about that was frustrating. Another aside, any new wrestlers introduced in it like Huckabee and Whisper never fell interesting even if you DID watch the season. Whisper felt like a discount Kondron at the beginning...
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jul 1, 2020 17:01:52 GMT -5
So I just used the gift card my work gave me to buy some DVDs. Bought the 2012 KoT (my absolute favorite), Under The Hood and Never Compromise.
I'm planning another purchase next week to get the 2011 Trios, High Noon, 12 Large Summit and TWGP Phase 2 (from 2013).
I already have the 2009, 2010, 2014 and 2015 Trios, as well as Hiding In Plain Sight (when The Colony won Los Campeonatos), Cibernetico 2009, You Only Live Twice, Top Banana and the entirety of 2010 (I will never buy a complete season again, because damn, a lot of those shows are loaded with pointless crap).
What would be some other good shows to pick up? I particularly want shows that hit the important notes for their season's stories. I'm just not well-versed in pre-shut down Chikara, so recommendations would be awesome.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 1, 2020 17:11:40 GMT -5
Not only did it frustrate me that he never did this for even bigger angles if there was no other choice like Claudio and Kingston (Which instead just dropped due to Cesaro's callup), but watching Mantis win the Grand Championship in a "Secret Season" that wasn't in front of really any actual fans since the seasons crowd was like close friends, family, and staff, it just felt like a complete and total robbery of the investment and time put in only emphasized by the fact Mantis didn't even have a long title reign after the fact. Everything about that was frustrating. I disagree with one thing here: the fans during the secret season. Because a lot of times, they were kids, and those kids seemed to be having a blast, and that was the best part of the whole thing for me.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 1, 2020 17:22:50 GMT -5
So I just used the gift card my work gave me to buy some DVDs. Bought the 2012 KoT (my absolute favorite), Under The Hood and Never Compromise. I'm planning another purchase next week to get the 2011 Trios, High Noon, 12 Large Summit and TWGP Phase 2 (from 2013). I already have the 2009, 2010, 2014 and 2015 Trios, as well as Hiding In Plain Sight (when The Colony won Los Campeonatos), Cibernetico 2009, You Only Live Twice, Top Banana and the entirety of 2010 (I will never buy a complete season again, because damn, a lot of those shows are loaded with pointless crap). What would be some other good shows to pick up? I particularly want shows that hit the important notes for their season's stories. I'm just not well-versed in pre-shut down Chikara, so recommendations would be awesome. A classic would be Cibernetico 2005. Simply because the Cibernetico is like a one hour and 40 minute match and it's a total marvel to see it. King of Trios 2008 for the famous Akeem vs Larry Sweeney dance-off and a wide variety of teams CHIKARAsaurus Rex, King of Sequels, Night's 1 and 2 are worth it. Johnny Saint vs Johnny Kidd, Quack and Saint vs Cabana and Kidd. Daisy Haze's last matches ever, Eddie Kingston vs Adam Cole BABAY, 3.0 and EL Generico vs The Gargano version of FIST and The Spectral Envoy. Tursas vs Green Ant in his amazing American Attire. Claudio also vs Quack and Sara Del Rey, this weekend is stacked, and I saw night one live so I can attest, it's good. CHIKARA Young Lions Cup IX was the infamous "Do it all in one day due to the Hurricane we never got" day, and it was great with a ton of really good action. Great and important moments here too. Claudio's last CHIKARA match, one of Vin Gerard's last CHIKARA matches evidenced by his growing gut and god awful "I don't care anymore" vomit pants, but his match with Fire Ant is actually a great one and throwback to their blood feud. Young Bucks are all over this show, as is a very rare Matt Jackson singles match vs Johnny Gargano. Lots of Archibald Peck, Green Ant, and Tadasuke on this show as well, which is also entertaining. A whole catalogue of shows and the cards can also be found here. It includes match writeups which you dont gotta read but it also just shows cards you could be interested in watching: chikaraspecial.wordpress.com/archives/
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 1, 2020 17:24:33 GMT -5
Not only did it frustrate me that he never did this for even bigger angles if there was no other choice like Claudio and Kingston (Which instead just dropped due to Cesaro's callup), but watching Mantis win the Grand Championship in a "Secret Season" that wasn't in front of really any actual fans since the seasons crowd was like close friends, family, and staff, it just felt like a complete and total robbery of the investment and time put in only emphasized by the fact Mantis didn't even have a long title reign after the fact. Everything about that was frustrating. I disagree with one thing here: the fans during the secret season. Because a lot of times, they were kids, and those kids seemed to be having a blast, and that was the best part of the whole thing for me. Fair point, but I did find something else to get frustrated over Mantis dropped the title to Juan Fransisco who proceeded to have the longest and most boring f***ing title reign with the Grand Championship... and then he got outed as a f***ing creep, so his entire run with the belt really taints the legacy of the championship as a whole, and I hate that Mantis dropped it to him even more so now...
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Jul 1, 2020 17:34:26 GMT -5
Thanks for those recommendations. I had to look up which match that Cibernetico was and yeah, that's one I definitely need to buy.
On a side note, I'm watching KoT 2014 right now and I will never not be amazed by the pop Jakob got. Dude was over like rover that night.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 1, 2020 18:29:20 GMT -5
Thanks for those recommendations. I had to look up which match that Cibernetico was and yeah, that's one I definitely need to buy. On a side note, I'm watching KoT 2014 right now and I will never not be amazed by the pop Jakob got. Dude was over like rover that night. Jakob was one of the most squandered talents they ever had. He could have been incredible if he had began to break out in other Indies as well, an infectious charisma and he could work. I'm glad he has a training facility now at the very least, but man I miss him around the Indies.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jul 1, 2020 22:20:40 GMT -5
I disagree with one thing here: the fans during the secret season. Because a lot of times, they were kids, and those kids seemed to be having a blast, and that was the best part of the whole thing for me. Fair point, but I did find something else to get frustrated over Mantis dropped the title to Juan Fransisco who proceeded to have the longest and most boring f***ing title reign with the Grand Championship... and then he got outed as a f***ing creep, so his entire run with the belt really taints the legacy of the championship as a whole, and I hate that Mantis dropped it to him even more so now... And worse, the whole "longest reigning" thing isn't even true. Eddie Kingston held the title much longer than Juan did. Which brings me to another thing that bugs me: the fact that the shutdown counted towards title reign lengths. So the Pieces of Hate, who won the Campeones at Never Compromise, and lost them in their first defense, are technically the longest reigning CdPs in Chikara history.
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