|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2020 20:49:20 GMT -5
Death Note as a whole story is great without question but it is a tale of two halves for obvious reasons
1st Half: Light gets the Death Note and fights his equal L. Both men are doing whatever they can to outsmart each other which leads to a great case of cat and mouse being played. Add in outside elements like Rem and Misa having the shinagami eyes as an interesting development that helped and hurt Light. Light comes on top in the battle with L and has no one to stop her
2nd Half: Light is essentially God in his Kira persona and the world (or at least Japan is under his thumb). In comes Near and Melo, the spiritual successors to L and will continue his work in his fight against Kira. Both guys go about it their own ways but do everything they could to make Light's life hell. Light in his hubris makes mistakes and has a bigger circle that led to his eventual downfall
In discussing the parts i'm obviously skipping over things like Lights biggest f*** up which is killing Ray Penbar and eventually his wife or gaining an extra Death Note thanks to Rem dying. What did you enjoy in each part and what parts do you think could have been different in execution?
|
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 17, 2020 22:03:55 GMT -5
This isn't precisely on topic, so let me know if it's not useful, but I tried watching Death Note not too long ago, and I kinda hated it. I got maybe... 10 episodes in, so it was still well within the first half.
But the thing is, I've been wondering why I hated it when other people like it so much. I just felt like I didn't care: this Light guy was a dick, and he was just going to keep getting rewarded by the plot until he probably dies because he's Anime Hero Boy, and I didn't have much interest in watching that. I felt like the series kept playing up these very easily answerable philosophical questions as grand mysteries: "Hey, is it, like, wrong to kill people to create a perfect world?!" and I was like "Yes. Done." and they kept asking it. I wanted Lain to walk in and beat this kid up.
So I dunno what I was missing out on, or whether my experience would have improved in the second half. And bigger question: what's the draw of this story at all?
|
|
|
|
Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Jan 17, 2020 22:12:02 GMT -5
This isn't precisely on topic, so let me know if it's not useful, but I tried watching Death Note not too long ago, and I kinda hated it. I got maybe... 10 episodes in, so it was still well within the first half. But the thing is, I've been wondering why I hated it when other people like it so much. I just felt like I didn't care: this Light guy was a dick, and he was just going to keep getting rewarded by the plot until he probably dies because he's Anime Hero Boy, and I didn't have much interest in watching that. I felt like the series kept playing up these very easily answerable philosophical questions as grand mysteries: "Hey, is it, like, wrong to kill people to create a perfect world?!" and I was like "Yes. Done." and they kept asking it. I wanted Lain to walk in and beat this kid up. So I dunno what I was missing out on, or whether my experience would have improved in the second half. And bigger question: what's the draw of this story at all? He’s far from the hero. The whole show is pretty much the rise of a supervillain. |
|
|
|
Post by prettynami on Jan 17, 2020 22:18:24 GMT -5
I think its sorta like a crazy murder mystery. It's not so much about the ending, but how you get there. Every setback the good guys have trying to get Kira and twist is supposed to make you wonder how they will get him in the end, and by the back end of the story it seems so much is stacked against the good guys. In a way the first half is sorta "How can he get away with this?" (And there is a sorta fall of Light's morals and humanity element) and the second half is "how can they finally stop him?" (And the final fall of all Light has left, his power).
Personally I quite liked it, it may have been because I read the manga first and the manga was really a page turner cause of all the twists and what not. Some people crap on the second half and how L isn't the one who gets Kira, but I really didn't mind it (at the time at least). I haven't seen it or read it in awhile so I can't remember all the details at the moment, but I remember the ending being pretty satisfactory - not some epic super showdown but their dogged pursuit finally catches Light/Kira after he maybe gets a little smug, like after destroying much more "powerful" people he was beyond them and almost stopped worrying as much.
|
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 17, 2020 22:24:18 GMT -5
This isn't precisely on topic, so let me know if it's not useful, but I tried watching Death Note not too long ago, and I kinda hated it. I got maybe... 10 episodes in, so it was still well within the first half. But the thing is, I've been wondering why I hated it when other people like it so much. I just felt like I didn't care: this Light guy was a dick, and he was just going to keep getting rewarded by the plot until he probably dies because he's Anime Hero Boy, and I didn't have much interest in watching that. I felt like the series kept playing up these very easily answerable philosophical questions as grand mysteries: "Hey, is it, like, wrong to kill people to create a perfect world?!" and I was like "Yes. Done." and they kept asking it. I wanted Lain to walk in and beat this kid up. So I dunno what I was missing out on, or whether my experience would have improved in the second half. And bigger question: what's the draw of this story at all? He’s far from the hero. The whole show is pretty much the rise of a supervillain. I mean, the show was pretty much him just proving he's smarter and better than everyone over and over again, so I'm not sure how else to think about it. I assumed he'd die in the end, but only after succeeding a kabillion times. It seems like a pretty frustrating watch, if it's just "hey look at this bad person winning a lot." |
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 17, 2020 22:33:38 GMT -5
I couldn’t get into the second half and never finished it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2020 23:04:52 GMT -5
This isn't precisely on topic, so let me know if it's not useful, but I tried watching Death Note not too long ago, and I kinda hated it. I got maybe... 10 episodes in, so it was still well within the first half. But the thing is, I've been wondering why I hated it when other people like it so much. I just felt like I didn't care: this Light guy was a dick, and he was just going to keep getting rewarded by the plot until he probably dies because he's Anime Hero Boy, and I didn't have much interest in watching that. I felt like the series kept playing up these very easily answerable philosophical questions as grand mysteries: "Hey, is it, like, wrong to kill people to create a perfect world?!" and I was like "Yes. Done." and they kept asking it. I wanted Lain to walk in and beat this kid up. So I dunno what I was missing out on, or whether my experience would have improved in the second half. And bigger question: what's the draw of this story at all? Don't confuse a protagonist as a hero. The story centered around Light but that doesn't make him the Hero of the story, just makes him the focus The draw of the story is the cat and mouse game of who will triumph. Light may be a dick but he's interesting and in a weird way you kind of want him to succeed but you also want L to stop him. If you finish watching the story they state pretty clearly the Death Note is one that corrupts people. If Light never found the Death Note he would have most likely been one of the top investigators in the world You as the viewer knows what Light is doing is wrong but their is also people that agree with him. Either you want L to stop him or you want Light to succeed. Add on the fact itself, the story just had twist and turns from a psychological perspective and when you take out the "good and evil" aspects of it you get two smart men in a race that does make it intriguing |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2020 23:08:26 GMT -5
I think its sorta like a crazy murder mystery. It's not so much about the ending, but how you get there. Every setback the good guys have trying to get Kira and twist is supposed to make you wonder how they will get him in the end, and by the back end of the story it seems so much is stacked against the good guys. In a way the first half is sorta "How can he get away with this?" (And there is a sorta fall of Light's morals and humanity element) and the second half is "how can they finally stop him?" (And the final fall of all Light has left, his power). Personally I quite liked it, it may have been because I read the manga first and the manga was really a page turner cause of all the twists and what not. Some people crap on the second half and how L isn't the one who gets Kira, but I really didn't mind it (at the time at least). I haven't seen it or read it in awhile so I can't remember all the details at the moment, but I remember the ending being pretty satisfactory - not some epic super showdown but their dogged pursuit finally catches Light/Kira after he maybe gets a little smug, like after destroying much more "powerful" people he was beyond them and almost stopped worrying as much. As I said already a good element is that while Light is an ass, there is a part of you that wants him to succeed but you also want him to stop Light was never inherently evil and the story tells you that. The Death Note itself is just a force and once he got into possession of that his darker nature took over and his life was basically over |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 17, 2020 23:10:29 GMT -5
He’s far from the hero. The whole show is pretty much the rise of a supervillain. I mean, the show was pretty much him just proving he's smarter and better than everyone over and over again, so I'm not sure how else to think about it. I assumed he'd die in the end, but only after succeeding a kabillion times. It seems like a pretty frustrating watch, if it's just "hey look at this bad person winning a lot." That's not entirely accurate L f***s him over a ton of times and it is only through quick thinking or luck that Light got away at some points. If L knew any aspects of the Death Note, Light wouldn't beat him |
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 18, 2020 3:17:23 GMT -5
Don't confuse a protagonist as a hero. The story centered around Light but that doesn't make him the Hero of the story, just makes him the focus The draw of the story is the cat and mouse game of who will triumph. Light may be a dick but he's interesting and in a weird way you kind of want him to succeed but you also want L to stop him. If you finish watching the story they state pretty clearly the Death Note is one that corrupts people. If Light never found the Death Note he would have most likely been one of the top investigators in the world Maybe this is what I'm missing. I didn't want Light to win: he was just going to be an asshole who did bad things, but I knew I was stuck with him for the whole damn series. No, like, interesting questions to explore, just "just guy's gonna win because he was born really smart I guess and has superpowers." (it's also weird how a show like this will try to make tension from Light's battles. We know he's gonna win, because 1. He's smart just 'cause, and 2. He's the main character, what, they're gonna kill him off?) And if the Death Note was corrupting, maaannnn does that ever happen quick. Like, literally less than one episode. But I guess if I'd seen it as some kind of cat and mouse strategy thing, it might have been different. Like, I know some people love Survivor and all strategy and "how to play the game" and if you like that sort of thing, I could see how Light vs. L could be really engaging. |
|
|
|
Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jan 18, 2020 3:58:32 GMT -5
I do love how in the Japanese live action films that Light gets taken down by L's own sacrifice. He writes his name in the Death Note just in case Light makes a move and then fakes a heart attack when Light does so. It was a really good way to have L get one over on Light for the final time even if it ends up costing his life.
I do also like that the point of no return in the first movie is when Light sacrifices his girlfriends life just so that he can join the investigation team when he orchestrated Naomi killing his girlfriend. It's the climax of the first movie and it puts a big old exclamation point on just how dangerous Light is.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,109 
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 18, 2020 7:34:09 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think Light was so smart that he was stupid.
He should have just owned what he was doing, and seized direct control of Japan as a tyrant dictator.
His love of getting to gloat about "EXACTLY...AS...PLANNNNNNNED!!!!" moments and the enjoyment he got out of playing all sides against the middle while also trying to hide his identity was what did him in.
He was already good enough at demagoguery that pretty much everyone he speaks to immediately falls for him (in one way or another) and will do anything he says.
If he had just declared himself the Man with the Strong Hand (considering that he already had worshippers, and almost everyone he meets is willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for him), anybody who could have got close enough to him to do anything about him, suddenly wouldn't be able to get that close.
|
|
|
|
Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jan 18, 2020 7:42:27 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think Light was so smart that he was stupid. He should have just owned what he was doing, and seized direct control of Japan as a tyrant dictator. His love of getting to gloat about "EXACTLY...AS...PLANNNNNNNED!!!!" moments and the enjoyment he got out of playing all sides against the middle while also trying to hide his identity was what did him in. He was already good enough at demagoguery that pretty much everyone he speaks to immediately falls for him (in one way or another) and will do anything he says. If he had just declared himself the Man with the Strong Hand (considering that he already had worshippers, and almost everyone he meets is willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for him), anybody who could have got close enough to him to do anything about him, suddenly wouldn't be able to get that close. He developed narcissistic tendencies once he truly got swallowed up by the death note. He had to be the smartest person in the room and he had to be manipulating people because that's what a genius with incredible power does. |
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 18, 2020 9:15:49 GMT -5
I think the 2nd half only exists so Light doesn't win.
Also my re-watch of it pissed me off tbh because in hindsight I think I saw like 5 different episodes of:
Light: Here's a really elaborate scheme that proves I can't be Kira
L: OK I'm now even more suspicious for some reason that he's Kira
I mean I know he's right but the rest of the task force would be telling him to expand his reach already by the time he had his dad pretend to shoot him and Misa
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2020 10:02:59 GMT -5
Don't confuse a protagonist as a hero. The story centered around Light but that doesn't make him the Hero of the story, just makes him the focus The draw of the story is the cat and mouse game of who will triumph. Light may be a dick but he's interesting and in a weird way you kind of want him to succeed but you also want L to stop him. If you finish watching the story they state pretty clearly the Death Note is one that corrupts people. If Light never found the Death Note he would have most likely been one of the top investigators in the world Maybe this is what I'm missing. I didn't want Light to win: he was just going to be an asshole who did bad things, but I knew I was stuck with him for the whole damn series. No, like, interesting questions to explore, just "just guy's gonna win because he was born really smart I guess and has superpowers." (it's also weird how a show like this will try to make tension from Light's battles. We know he's gonna win, because 1. He's smart just 'cause, and 2. He's the main character, what, they're gonna kill him off?) And if the Death Note was corrupting, maaannnn does that ever happen quick. Like, literally less than one episode. But I guess if I'd seen it as some kind of cat and mouse strategy thing, it might have been different. Like, I know some people love Survivor and all strategy and "how to play the game" and if you like that sort of thing, I could see how Light vs. L could be really engaging. The thing is Light does lose. L f***ed up his plans a lot and his first loss to L is in the 1st episode when he kills the guy who challenges him and therefore exposes himself. Light rarely if ever has the upper hand on L because L is always testing him and while Light is a smart guy, him being that smart is why L always is on his case and how he keeps getting himself in trouble. I would say if you ever watch it again, look at from an outside perspective in terms how much worse can Light be. Light kiling people is wrong but you have people who don't mind the "bad guys" are dying as that was Lights original purpose. He killed others who stood in is way which is what ended up making him a bad guy. From L perspective even with Light just killing criminals that makes him an evil person because whether they committed heinous crimes or not, Light can't be God to judge people but the people see someone cleaning up the streets and that's what makes him a messiah. The fight between L and Light is a game of who will f*** up first? Light has to figure out a not obvious way to kill L, while L needs to retain all his cunning and not give in to Light even when evidence dictates Kira. The first 10 episode is the set up because you are missing out on new characters being introduced and how that whole thing f***s up Light and L plus an interesting development happens that shakes up the story. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2020 10:07:09 GMT -5
I think the 2nd half only exists so Light doesn't win. Also my re-watch of it pissed me off tbh because in hindsight I think I saw like 5 different episodes of: Light: Here's a really elaborate scheme that proves I can't be Kira L: OK I'm now even more suspicious for some reason that he's Kira I mean I know he's right but the rest of the task force would be telling him to expand his reach already by the time he had his dad pretend to shoot him and Misa It is said something like L gets more suspicious with each time he questions Light and Light being too smart for his own good, can't all the way shake L I think it is more annoying when Light basically reverts back to his good guy persona and him being a man of justice and L still being suspicious of him. The Misa situation obviously outside of Ray Penbar is what really f***ed Light up |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 18, 2020 10:10:32 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think Light was so smart that he was stupid. He should have just owned what he was doing, and seized direct control of Japan as a tyrant dictator. His love of getting to gloat about "EXACTLY...AS...PLANNNNNNNED!!!!" moments and the enjoyment he got out of playing all sides against the middle while also trying to hide his identity was what did him in. He was already good enough at demagoguery that pretty much everyone he speaks to immediately falls for him (in one way or another) and will do anything he says. If he had just declared himself the Man with the Strong Hand (considering that he already had worshippers, and almost everyone he meets is willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for him), anybody who could have got close enough to him to do anything about him, suddenly wouldn't be able to get that close. The big problem is Light liked to control stuff from the shadows Add on the fact, we know there is other Death Notes out there. If Light revealed himself as Kira, who is to say someone else in the world would not just kill him because they disagree with him. In Japan he is untouchable sure but everywhere else he would have been in trouble |
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jan 18, 2020 14:27:04 GMT -5
For me the series died with L. Melo was a scumbag and Near just felt like an L cosplayer and I had trouble liking either character. L and Light had a great dynamic with each other.
But yeah, I never, ever saw Light as a hero. The second episode of the anime made it clear that in spite of his original, noble intentions he was becoming the evil he wanted to destroy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 19, 2020 7:47:13 GMT -5
There are tons of stories where I’m invested in a hero triumphing and justice being served, which in Death Note eventually does come to pass by the end, but this wasn’t one of them and that wasn’t Ohba’s objective when he wrote it. The fun of the series is watching Light try to outwit the authorities, and said authorities having to resort to unconventional means in their effort to stop him.
I wasn’t as bothered by Near as much as other fans even though he’s not as interesting or sympathetic as L, and I don’t think we were supposed to like Melo to begin with.
But both half’s of the anime/manga are way, way better than the Netflix adaptation. Lakeith Stanfield tried his best but he was swimming upstream with that one.
|
|
King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,751
|
Post by King Devitt on Jan 19, 2020 9:10:43 GMT -5
The first half is absolutely perfect.
It's how you write a chess game between two people trying to outwit each other.
The boundaries of traditional writing arcs it breaks are admirable.
The second half felt like it was written by a butthurt fanboy/girl who just wanted Light to lose, and did it the cheapest way possible.
Near is a ridiculous cheap L clone, and it always felt hollow. Up until the "end".
If you'd ended it after Light won, it would be an amazing anti-hero story that actually wins.
But no, they had to He-Man two parter it in which Skeletor looks like he's won, but then part 2 comes out the next weekend and He-Man wins in some stupid ass fashion.
I absolutely detest Near, and how the second half was handled.
|
|
