Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 22:43:01 GMT -5
I think the Astros scandal might have actually helped the sport had Covid never happened because people were just waiting for Altuve, Bregman, Correa, etc, to get plunked, and any fights that came out of it would have lead off sports talk shows. Other than that, baseball has no juice right now. Games being too long and/or “boring” to non fans is an issue, but that’s baseball at its core. You can’t change the game that much. The biggest issue is that other than the Astros cheating, there are never any intriguing stories heading into a season, and if players are marginalized to the point where fans only care about the front of the jersey instead of the back of it, then you’re left with a regional sport with no mainstream appeal. The names are still what draw fans in. Maybe not the diehards but definitely the casuals.
I don’t know how they fix that issue with Manfred at the helm.
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,382
|
Post by BRV on May 27, 2020 22:50:47 GMT -5
baseball is also a slow sport existing in a fast paced world where you can watch a dozen episodes of something in the time it takes you to watch one "episode" of baseball that exists in 162 games which are mostly forgetable and oftentimes meaningless. Its a long season where theres really no reason to be invested. The realization that baseball will never capture Gen-Z and is going to permanently struggle to capture a majority of Millennials hit me when I went to a game at Fenway Park last season. I was hoping to find a seat along the third-base line that wasn't obstructed by protective netting, but alas, the netting had been extended along the entire third-base line, and I understood exactly why as the game progressed along: because everyone had their faces buried in their phones. Baseball hasn't gotten more dangerous over the last 30 years, people's attention spans have just rapidly deteriorated. Because as soon as the first pitch was thrown, they're nose-deep in their phones, only looking up to snap a quick selfie to post on Instagram before running off in the middle innings to make it to one of the trendy bars or nightclubs nearby. (And yes, I acknowledge as a Millennial myself, the previous paragraph is the most "grumpy old man" I've ever sounded, but it's the truth.) And that leads to baseball's bigger problem, which you brought up: the sport is an inherently slow affair in an increasingly fast-paced world. In a world where a five-second ad is asking too much for someone to watch a YouTube video, where debates existed as to whether 280 characters was going overboard on Twitter, and where you can become a star for 10 seconds of content on Snapchat, there's no time for a sport without a clock that takes roughly three hours to complete per night, 162 nights per year. Baseball either needs to reconcile with that and acknowledge that they're not going to completely reinvent the game to cater to fans who don't watch the sport to begin with, or totally change to try to win over that audience and risk alienating the fans who've been loyal to them from the outset. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't and either way, they're dangerously close to toeing the line on becoming America's fourth-most popular sport.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 27, 2020 23:02:14 GMT -5
Nope, i'm actually trying to come up with a solution because that is both MLB and Mike Trout fault he isn't mainstream as he should besounds like manfred, all joking aside who cares if he doesn't market himself some people want to be private and don't want the big celebrity life It matters No one says you have to be a big celebrity but as the best player in the game you should be more noticeable then you are. He doesn't have to be on social media acting a fool. Just be in more commercials, put yourself out there a little more because otherwise he is boring. But that's where MLB comes into play. Patrick Mahomes is boring but you put him in a ketchup and head and shoulders commercial and boom he is more recognizable for the NFL. Blake Griffin at his height was in a tone of Kia commercials being his usual bland self but it worked because they build commercials around that.
|
|
RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,329
|
Post by RKTaker on May 27, 2020 23:03:53 GMT -5
sounds like manfred, all joking aside who cares if he doesn't market himself some people want to be private and don't want the big celebrity life It matters No one says you have to be a big celebrity but as the best player in the game you should be more noticeable then you are. He doesn't have to be on social media acting a fool. Just be in more commercials, put yourself out there a little more because otherwise he is boring. But that's where MLB comes into play. Patrick Mahomes is boring but you put him in a ketchup and head and shoulders commercial and boom he is more recognizable for the NFL. Blake Griffin at his height was in a tone of Kia commercials being his usual bland self but it worked because they build commercials around that. But if he doesn’t want to why force him. If you do that anything he does will come off as insincere because he just doesn’t care if he doesn’t want the spotlight that’s his decision leave him alone
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 27, 2020 23:07:06 GMT -5
Nope, i'm actually trying to come up with a solution because that is both MLB and Mike Trout fault he isn't mainstream as he should be Agreed. When I was growing up, Ken Griffey Jr was a household name. The swing, the backwards hat, everything about him was money. Then there was Jeter, A-Rod, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. Baseball in the past has been able to market stars without issue. The problem now is that they are so bad at social media and content marketing that no one aside from existing fans are going to be able to see their content. MLBAM was basically created so that anyone not affiliated with MLB has no authority to post MLB content online without MLB’s approval. On the flip side, look at the NBA. The moment a big dunk happens, it’s all over social media. Ten minute condensed games are posted instantly. It’s so easy for a kid to go on any platform and see NBA footage because Silver is ahead of the curve. MLB is trapped in 1973. They want to monetize all their content rather than use social media to their advantage like Silver does. Young kids have no reason to follow baseball. Trout should be a big star. Everyone should know who he is and what he looks like. Aaron Judge should be a household name. Mookie Betts should be a household name. The only baseball player with any name value at this point seems to be Bryce Harper but he might be the last of an era. MLB is so far behind the marketing curve that by the time they realize the issue it will be too late. My feeling is Trout should be out there in commercials with LeBron, Steph, Mahomes etc. Judge thanks to being with the Yankees and having the Pepsi commercial already has national exposure so it is up to MLB to find ways to use that. Same with getting Mookie Betts more time in the sun as he has now played in two big markets but Mookie needs to be on a team to really feel important otherwise I wouldn't put him in somewhere like Pittsburgh and expect fans to come see him and only him
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 27, 2020 23:11:44 GMT -5
It matters No one says you have to be a big celebrity but as the best player in the game you should be more noticeable then you are. He doesn't have to be on social media acting a fool. Just be in more commercials, put yourself out there a little more because otherwise he is boring. But that's where MLB comes into play. Patrick Mahomes is boring but you put him in a ketchup and head and shoulders commercial and boom he is more recognizable for the NFL. Blake Griffin at his height was in a tone of Kia commercials being his usual bland self but it worked because they build commercials around that. But if he doesn’t want to why force him. If you do that anything he does will come off as insincere because he just doesn’t care if he doesn’t want the spotlight that’s his decision leave him alone That's up too MLB to figure out how to work that out Hell, the ultimate loner Kawhi Leonard even has commercials. You're not asking the man to move heaven and earth, you're just getting him in more commercials because as it stands Mike Trout only appeals to baseball diehards and if he made the world series that shit would flop ratings wise and Baseball needs to be on the way up.
|
|
RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,329
|
Post by RKTaker on May 27, 2020 23:13:30 GMT -5
But if he doesn’t want to why force him. If you do that anything he does will come off as insincere because he just doesn’t care if he doesn’t want the spotlight that’s his decision leave him alone That's up too MLB to figure out how to work that out Hell, the ultimate loner Kawhi Leonard even has commercials. You're not asking the man to move heaven and earth, you're just getting him in more commercials because as it stands Mike Trout only appeals to baseball diehards and if he made the world series that shit would flop ratings wise and Baseball needs to be on the way up. idk maybe it's just the introvert in me to say if someone doesn't want to do an interview on good morning america, or a nike commercial just leave him alone
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 27, 2020 23:14:32 GMT -5
A generational talent like that should be able to pull people to the games, all you need to do is get him more exposure He doesn't have to do SNL or be on social media everyday. Get him a commercial outside of the generic Gateroade commercial and something that helps to focus on him. I've seen more commercials for Zion Williamson this year then i've seen for Trout in the last 3-4
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 27, 2020 23:22:55 GMT -5
That's up too MLB to figure out how to work that out Hell, the ultimate loner Kawhi Leonard even has commercials. You're not asking the man to move heaven and earth, you're just getting him in more commercials because as it stands Mike Trout only appeals to baseball diehards and if he made the world series that shit would flop ratings wise and Baseball needs to be on the way up. idk maybe it's just the introvert in me to say if someone doesn't want to do an interview on good morning america, or a nike commercial just leave him alone And I get that My thing is you can be an introvert and still participate. I am 100% sure he is no worse then Kawhi Leonard who own family probably doesn't know he plays basketball for a living. Trout has done a goofy commercial I think last year. For me, it is just weird to see him in almost NOTHING!!! Curry has car and water commercials. LeBron has his own thing. Kawhi has sneakers. He doesn't have to go out there acting a fool, just need you to put your stamp on the game but I think at this point it won't happen In the end, it will most likely pass him by. And if he doesn't start winning in a few years at least in terms of making the playoffs then it won't even matter
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 23:25:47 GMT -5
baseball is also a slow sport existing in a fast paced world where you can watch a dozen episodes of something in the time it takes you to watch one "episode" of baseball that exists in 162 games which are mostly forgetable and oftentimes meaningless. Its a long season where theres really no reason to be invested. The realization that baseball will never capture Gen-Z and is going to permanently struggle to capture a majority of Millennials hit me when I went to a game at Fenway Park last season. I was hoping to find a seat along the third-base line that wasn't obstructed by protective netting, but alas, the netting had been extended along the entire third-base line, and I understood exactly why as the game progressed along: because everyone had their faces buried in their phones. Baseball hasn't gotten more dangerous over the last 30 years, people's attention spans have just rapidly deteriorated. Because as soon as the first pitch was thrown, they're nose-deep in their phones, only looking up to snap a quick selfie to post on Instagram before running off in the middle innings to make it to one of the trendy bars or nightclubs nearby. (And yes, I acknowledge as a Millennial myself, the previous paragraph is the most "grumpy old man" I've ever sounded, but it's the truth.) And that leads to baseball's bigger problem, which you brought up: the sport is an inherently slow affair in an increasingly fast-paced world. In a world where a five-second ad is asking too much for someone to watch a YouTube video, where debates existed as to whether 280 characters was going overboard on Twitter, and where you can become a star for 10 seconds of content on Snapchat, there's no time for a sport without a clock that takes roughly three hours to complete per night, 162 nights per year. Baseball either needs to reconcile with that and acknowledge that they're not going to completely reinvent the game to cater to fans who don't watch the sport to begin with, or totally change to try to win over that audience and risk alienating the fans who've been loyal to them from the outset. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't and either way, they're dangerously close to toeing the line on becoming America's fourth-most popular sport. Same thing happened to me at Yankee Stadium a couple of years ago. Went with my wife and a few friends. By the 2nd inning I was the only one of us still at my seat. Everyone else was walking around trying to entertain themselves. There’s really no right answer when it comes to the actual sport. It is what it is. You can speed the game up with cosmetic changes but ultimately the game will always be what it is. People either enjoy it or they don’t. The one thing they do have control over is marketing. If more people knew who the players were, and their personalities were more known, then casual fans would have a reason to tune in. Would they watch all 162 games to see one guy? Probably not, but it still brings a different level of interest to the game if the players are the draws rather than the teams. I think it’s a formality that baseball in the next 10 years will no longer be the #3 sport in the US. I don’t know who will overtake it, maybe Esports if you consider that a sport, but it is headed down the same path the NHL has been on. The one positive is that I read participation rates among kids has grown a lot, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to business or potential viewers.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on May 28, 2020 2:26:03 GMT -5
MLBPA actually taking a stand in negotiations for once. Let's see if they stick to it or fold like Superman on laundry day.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 28, 2020 8:12:57 GMT -5
baseball is also a slow sport existing in a fast paced world where you can watch a dozen episodes of something in the time it takes you to watch one "episode" of baseball that exists in 162 games which are mostly forgetable and oftentimes meaningless. Its a long season where theres really no reason to be invested. The realization that baseball will never capture Gen-Z and is going to permanently struggle to capture a majority of Millennials hit me when I went to a game at Fenway Park last season. I was hoping to find a seat along the third-base line that wasn't obstructed by protective netting, but alas, the netting had been extended along the entire third-base line, and I understood exactly why as the game progressed along: because everyone had their faces buried in their phones. Baseball hasn't gotten more dangerous over the last 30 years, people's attention spans have just rapidly deteriorated. Because as soon as the first pitch was thrown, they're nose-deep in their phones, only looking up to snap a quick selfie to post on Instagram before running off in the middle innings to make it to one of the trendy bars or nightclubs nearby. (And yes, I acknowledge as a Millennial myself, the previous paragraph is the most "grumpy old man" I've ever sounded, but it's the truth.) And that leads to baseball's bigger problem, which you brought up: the sport is an inherently slow affair in an increasingly fast-paced world. In a world where a five-second ad is asking too much for someone to watch a YouTube video, where debates existed as to whether 280 characters was going overboard on Twitter, and where you can become a star for 10 seconds of content on Snapchat, there's no time for a sport without a clock that takes roughly three hours to complete per night, 162 nights per year. Baseball either needs to reconcile with that and acknowledge that they're not going to completely reinvent the game to cater to fans who don't watch the sport to begin with, or totally change to try to win over that audience and risk alienating the fans who've been loyal to them from the outset. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't and either way, they're dangerously close to toeing the line on becoming America's fourth-most popular sport. The most common complaints are pace of play and the length of the season. I have to think if they chopped the season down to say, 132 and got the length of your average game down to 2:20, it would at least help a bit. Speaking solely for myself, I absolutely cannot follow the day in and day out of a 162 game schedule, and I for damn sure can't devote 3 plus hours to a game on a Tuesday in July.
|
|
domrep
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by domrep on May 28, 2020 9:01:49 GMT -5
I think the Astros scandal might have actually helped the sport had Covid never happened because people were just waiting for Altuve, Bregman, Correa, etc, to get plunked, and any fights that came out of it would have lead off sports talk shows. Other than that, baseball has no juice right now. Games being too long and/or “boring” to non fans is an issue, but that’s baseball at its core. You can’t change the game that much. The biggest issue is that other than the Astros cheating, there are never any intriguing stories heading into a season, and if players are marginalized to the point where fans only care about the front of the jersey instead of the back of it, then you’re left with a regional sport with no mainstream appeal. The names are still what draw fans in. Maybe not the diehards but definitely the casuals. I don’t know how they fix that issue with Manfred at the helm. Honestly? I was looking forward to the season just to catch Astros games if they were nationally televised or highlights on Sportscenter. Astros are the heels in this situation, so everyone wants them to get their comeuppance. Would have been great TV.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on May 28, 2020 9:05:20 GMT -5
The realization that baseball will never capture Gen-Z and is going to permanently struggle to capture a majority of Millennials hit me when I went to a game at Fenway Park last season. I was hoping to find a seat along the third-base line that wasn't obstructed by protective netting, but alas, the netting had been extended along the entire third-base line, and I understood exactly why as the game progressed along: because everyone had their faces buried in their phones. Baseball hasn't gotten more dangerous over the last 30 years, people's attention spans have just rapidly deteriorated. Because as soon as the first pitch was thrown, they're nose-deep in their phones, only looking up to snap a quick selfie to post on Instagram before running off in the middle innings to make it to one of the trendy bars or nightclubs nearby. (And yes, I acknowledge as a Millennial myself, the previous paragraph is the most "grumpy old man" I've ever sounded, but it's the truth.) And that leads to baseball's bigger problem, which you brought up: the sport is an inherently slow affair in an increasingly fast-paced world. In a world where a five-second ad is asking too much for someone to watch a YouTube video, where debates existed as to whether 280 characters was going overboard on Twitter, and where you can become a star for 10 seconds of content on Snapchat, there's no time for a sport without a clock that takes roughly three hours to complete per night, 162 nights per year. Baseball either needs to reconcile with that and acknowledge that they're not going to completely reinvent the game to cater to fans who don't watch the sport to begin with, or totally change to try to win over that audience and risk alienating the fans who've been loyal to them from the outset. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't and either way, they're dangerously close to toeing the line on becoming America's fourth-most popular sport. The most common complaints are pace of play and the length of the season. I have to think if they chopped the season down to say, 132 and got the length of your average game down to 2:20, it would at least help a bit. Speaking solely for myself, I absolutely cannot follow the day in and day out of a 162 game schedule, and I for damn sure can't devote 3 plus hours to a game on a Tuesday in July. Yeah, those are really big problems. They've tried very small rules that have cracked down on games going overly long, but none that really shorten the games to a more digestible length. Maybe less innings, but then you piss off the purists who give you most of your revenue. It's a tough tight rope to walk, trying to bring in casuals without pissing off your base audience. But the season has needed to be shortened for most of my lifetime. It doesn't really matter even as a baseball fan if you miss one game or five games, there's always another one tomorrow and for the next 2 months. Not even the most adamant baseball supporter couldn't live without a 162-game schedule. Anywhere between 120 and 140 would be a great spot to land. The players would have a less taxing schedule, the owners could hold that against them in negotiations and the fans get a break as well. Only problem is owners love squeezing as much money as they can, considering most teams make a good chunk of change every home game.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,816
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on May 28, 2020 9:19:36 GMT -5
The most common complaints are pace of play and the length of the season. I have to think if they chopped the season down to say, 132 and got the length of your average game down to 2:20, it would at least help a bit. Speaking solely for myself, I absolutely cannot follow the day in and day out of a 162 game schedule, and I for damn sure can't devote 3 plus hours to a game on a Tuesday in July. Yeah, those are really big problems. They've tried very small rules that have cracked down on games going overly long, but none that really shorten the games to a more digestible length. Maybe less innings, but then you piss off the purists who give you most of your revenue. It's a tough tight rope to walk, trying to bring in casuals without pissing off your base audience. But the season has needed to be shortened for most of my lifetime. It doesn't really matter even as a baseball fan if you miss one game or five games, there's always another one tomorrow and for the next 2 months. Not even the most adamant baseball supporter couldn't live without a 162-game schedule. Anywhere between 120 and 140 would be a great spot to land. The players would have a less taxing schedule, the owners could hold that against them in negotiations and the fans get a break as well. Only problem is owners love squeezing as much money as they can, considering most teams make a good chunk of change every home game. I went with 132 because it essentially cuts the season down a month. The World Series should be finished by no later than October 15th or so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 9:54:18 GMT -5
Yeah, those are really big problems. They've tried very small rules that have cracked down on games going overly long, but none that really shorten the games to a more digestible length. Maybe less innings, but then you piss off the purists who give you most of your revenue. It's a tough tight rope to walk, trying to bring in casuals without pissing off your base audience. But the season has needed to be shortened for most of my lifetime. It doesn't really matter even as a baseball fan if you miss one game or five games, there's always another one tomorrow and for the next 2 months. Not even the most adamant baseball supporter couldn't live without a 162-game schedule. Anywhere between 120 and 140 would be a great spot to land. The players would have a less taxing schedule, the owners could hold that against them in negotiations and the fans get a break as well. Only problem is owners love squeezing as much money as they can, considering most teams make a good chunk of change every home game. I like the idea of shortening the season as well but I read that a good chunk of baseball’s revenue comes from live attendance, so even if you cut 30+ games from a season, that will be a significant hit to owners. If there was a way to drop the regular season to about 120-130 games and replace the lost games with something else that could potentially cover the losses, then that would be one option. The NBA has tinkered with the idea of a mid season tournament. If MLB were to have something like the World Baseball Classic happen either directly after the season or some time in between, maybe that would would be one option. More games played in DR and other spots where baseball is more popular would be good for the game as well. What you said is basically the main issue: how do you change rules to attract a younger audience without pissing off the core audience that is over 50? Because rule changes are not guaranteed to attract new fans so if you fail at attracting new fans and piss off the existing ones, then it’s a point of no return.
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,382
|
Post by BRV on May 28, 2020 11:18:34 GMT -5
I think the Astros scandal might have actually helped the sport had Covid never happened because people were just waiting for Altuve, Bregman, Correa, etc, to get plunked, and any fights that came out of it would have lead off sports talk shows. Other than that, baseball has no juice right now. Games being too long and/or “boring” to non fans is an issue, but that’s baseball at its core. You can’t change the game that much. The biggest issue is that other than the Astros cheating, there are never any intriguing stories heading into a season, and if players are marginalized to the point where fans only care about the front of the jersey instead of the back of it, then you’re left with a regional sport with no mainstream appeal. The names are still what draw fans in. Maybe not the diehards but definitely the casuals. I don’t know how they fix that issue with Manfred at the helm. Honestly? I was looking forward to the season just to catch Astros games if they were nationally televised or highlights on Sportscenter. Astros are the heels in this situation, so everyone wants them to get their comeuppance. Would have been great TV. The Astros scandal might have popped a nice ratings bump at the start of the season, but I don't think it would have been anything sustainable. The Ringer MLB Show podcast equated it to rubbernecking at an accident on a highway, it'll get its initial share of gawkers and onlookers, but it'll get cleaned up and be forgotten about in a matter of moments. People would've tuned in to see Jose Altuve and Alex Bregman get plunked in the first week of the season, but once things settled back to normal, once the beanings and potential bench-clearing brawls came and went, it would've been baseball as usual. That's not a sustainable model for long-term ratings success. It's putting Goldberg vs. Hollywood Hogan on Monday Nitro just to beat Raw in the ratings for one week without any sustained plan on what to do for the other 51 Mondays in a year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:57:39 GMT -5
MLB teams have laid off over 1,000 minor league players with more coming.
It's going to be unlikely minor league baseball is played.
|
|
andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,135
|
Post by andrew8798 on May 28, 2020 22:09:03 GMT -5
And Mike Ryan's comments today oh boy
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,185
|
Post by Mecca on May 29, 2020 14:34:29 GMT -5
There is a good chance there isn't going to be baseball this year.
I'm hopeful that the public becomes aware of just what kind of f***ery ownership is up to this time.
This was an OBVIOUS attempt to create the sort of class-warfare populism that the NFL used against the NFLPA to get a deal done. They threw all their efforts at assuaging concerns of lower paid guys so they could get the majority on their side. And it worked.
The MLB owners, OTOH, overplayed their hands so incredibly badly that all they managed to do was piss the rank and file players off. ESPECIALLY when the narrative they've sold year after year to keep initial salaries down was "when its your turn, you'll get yours..."
Well they did such a good job selling it that the less costly players said "okay, when it's our turn we'll get ours....but you're pretty clearly establishing that you're willing to f*** us over when that time comes because if you'll do it to Mike Trout, you'll absolutely do it to us.
Ultimately when the details of that thing started to leak out, I became about 80% convinced that the owners would rather not have a season than suffer a seasons worth of losses.
And for a bunch of guys that are supposed to be smart businessmen, that's just shockingly stupid.
They had to believe the class-warfare play would work because if not, they're just far dumber than I could've ever imagined.
|
|