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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 3, 2020 18:17:42 GMT -5
That's what Harvey had. His career is probably done. Shame. Yea, once you have that shoulder capsule surgery it is hard to come back especially for Archer who is over 30
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 3, 2020 18:27:04 GMT -5
Well some good news is that it seems that stuff the Owners and Players agree on is expanded playoffs and Universal DH
It is the financials and season length holding things up
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 3, 2020 19:02:06 GMT -5
Can they divide the season into first and second half like they did when they had a strike in 1981? That would allow for a reduced schedule and clear playoff selection.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jun 3, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
You know...this would be a swell time for Mark Cuban to start planning a third league. I want him to buy the Mets so bad. It’s not like he and A-Rod don’t know each other.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 22:11:36 GMT -5
Well some good news is that it seems that stuff the Owners and Players agree on is expanded playoffs and Universal DH It is the financials and season length holding things up Yeah, MLB is going to make most of their money off playoff revenue if they come back. A 50 game season would mean the players get 30% of their money prorated, so I'm sure that's a contributing factor, but MLB really wants to get through the playoffs without any virus-related stoppages and a shorter season might be the best way to do that. I'm still hoping for a 82 game season, players get 50% of their money prorated, and expanded playoffs. Do an all star game and home run derby after the playoffs are over in a warm weather stadium to generate more revenue. There has to be a fair compromise here.
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Jun 4, 2020 2:25:19 GMT -5
To be fair, the NBA and NHL have already played most of their regular seasons, so the owners already got a large chunk of regular season revenue. MLB hasn’t gotten anything yet as the shutdown started 2 weeks before their regular season was going to start. If the shutdown happened in mid August of this year rather than mid March, then MLB’s stance might have been different. With that said, the tone deafness of MLB is very high right now. I read an article recently that looked at regional TV ratings for MLB versus NBA in 2019, and MLB surprisingly smoked them. With the two leagues about to go head to head in 2021 and possibly permanently after that, MLB can’t afford to have that gap narrowed by alienating fans now. If anything, that is more reason to be motivated to get a plan in place than the NBA and NHL. Those leagues already have tons of revenue on the books for this season. MLB should be the first ones hammering out a deal, but the owners are of the mind to play aggressive hardball with the players at the league's own peril. The big difference between the MLB and the NBA is the NBA has set the standard for this from the first positive test. They've made the right choice almost universally and in a timely manner while baseball could be reaping what they sow in a possible extended labor stoppage that is probably 90% on the owners.
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Jun 4, 2020 10:11:31 GMT -5
Pretty crazy that since the Archer/Honeywell spat that neither have been very healthy and neither have pitched for the Rays almost at all.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 4, 2020 10:15:16 GMT -5
Pretty crazy that since the Archer/Honeywell spat that neither have been very healthy and neither have pitched for the Rays almost at all. How many pitchers sustain their good level after leaving Rays? Price did for a while but he was a choke artist in the playoffs when it mattered for Toronto and Det
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 10:41:56 GMT -5
To be fair, the NBA and NHL have already played most of their regular seasons, so the owners already got a large chunk of regular season revenue. MLB hasn’t gotten anything yet as the shutdown started 2 weeks before their regular season was going to start. If the shutdown happened in mid August of this year rather than mid March, then MLB’s stance might have been different. With that said, the tone deafness of MLB is very high right now. I read an article recently that looked at regional TV ratings for MLB versus NBA in 2019, and MLB surprisingly smoked them. With the two leagues about to go head to head in 2021 and possibly permanently after that, MLB can’t afford to have that gap narrowed by alienating fans now. If anything, that is more reason to be motivated to get a plan in place than the NBA and NHL. Those leagues already have tons of revenue on the books for this season. MLB should be the first ones hammering out a deal, but the owners are of the mind to play aggressive hardball with the players at the league's own peril. The big difference between the MLB and the NBA is the NBA has set the standard for this from the first positive test. They've made the right choice almost universally and in a timely manner while baseball could be reaping what they sow in a possible extended labor stoppage that is probably 90% on the owners. I think the owners are less concerned about a deal getting done because apparently a big chunk of their annual revenue comes from live attendance. So in their minds, they are getting less money by playing in empty stadiums, the players are asking for prorated salaries, and the only real money maker for owners in 2020 would be playoff revenue (which isn't guaranteed because a 2nd wave in the fall could prevent the playoffs from happening). A 50 game season means the players would be paid 30% of their salaries prorated, so that combined with playoff money is probably the only way owners feel they can make money on a truncated season with no fans. It sucks because being the first sport back on July 4th weekend (assuming it is safe to do so) is like the easiest short term publicity grab ever. If the NBA is coming back July 31, that means MLB would have 4 weeks to themselves in July. Mic the players up, try different things to get engagement from TV audiences, have robo umps, etc. Show the world for one month that baseball is a fun sport for all ages. It would be a rare occasion where everyone's eye balls would be on MLB out of necessity. Hell, I know it won't fit the regional schedule they'd have to do, but start the season with the Yankees vs. Astros in a neutral site. ESPN would easily promote that given the cheating scandal and how it directly impacted the Yankees in two different seasons. They are playing Korean baseball on their channel. They'd definitely pay for a bunch of MLB content in July if they were in the only game in town. Some times you have to take a short term hit for long term growth. Baseball is unwilling to do that, and I don't even know if I can blame Manfred. He works for the owners and does what they tell him to do. I think the owners are just happy with their guaranteed profits every year and don't really care if the game grows or not, which is only going to hurt long term.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jun 4, 2020 11:39:53 GMT -5
a couple of weeks old, but I actually like Bryce's plan
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Jun 5, 2020 7:31:48 GMT -5
If anything, that is more reason to be motivated to get a plan in place than the NBA and NHL. Those leagues already have tons of revenue on the books for this season. MLB should be the first ones hammering out a deal, but the owners are of the mind to play aggressive hardball with the players at the league's own peril. The big difference between the MLB and the NBA is the NBA has set the standard for this from the first positive test. They've made the right choice almost universally and in a timely manner while baseball could be reaping what they sow in a possible extended labor stoppage that is probably 90% on the owners. I think the owners are less concerned about a deal getting done because apparently a big chunk of their annual revenue comes from live attendance. So in their minds, they are getting less money by playing in empty stadiums, the players are asking for prorated salaries, and the only real money maker for owners in 2020 would be playoff revenue (which isn't guaranteed because a 2nd wave in the fall could prevent the playoffs from happening). A 50 game season means the players would be paid 30% of their salaries prorated, so that combined with playoff money is probably the only way owners feel they can make money on a truncated season with no fans. It sucks because being the first sport back on July 4th weekend (assuming it is safe to do so) is like the easiest short term publicity grab ever. If the NBA is coming back July 31, that means MLB would have 4 weeks to themselves in July. Mic the players up, try different things to get engagement from TV audiences, have robo umps, etc. Show the world for one month that baseball is a fun sport for all ages. It would be a rare occasion where everyone's eye balls would be on MLB out of necessity. Hell, I know it won't fit the regional schedule they'd have to do, but start the season with the Yankees vs. Astros in a neutral site. ESPN would easily promote that given the cheating scandal and how it directly impacted the Yankees in two different seasons. They are playing Korean baseball on their channel. They'd definitely pay for a bunch of MLB content in July if they were in the only game in town. Some times you have to take a short term hit for long term growth. Baseball is unwilling to do that, and I don't even know if I can blame Manfred. He works for the owners and does what they tell him to do. I think the owners are just happy with their guaranteed profits every year and don't really care if the game grows or not, which is only going to hurt long term. It's not even about being able to see the long-term picture. The past labor stoppage hurt baseball for years when it was way more popular than it is today. It wouldn't hurt baseball years or decades from now, it would hurt baseball the second they announced there would be no season. They'd be affecting tons of gross earnings over 60-ish games. What does their next TV deal look like with even more decline in popularity? Having basically no baseball save for a few spring training games for 16 momths is gonna be a huge hit to baseball, even before the fan backlash over it being a money dispute. If it were only a coronavirus issue and they lost a season, it would still be a hit to their stock. The owners know this, they'd just rather be douchebag misers than have a baseball season despite the fact they're in the baseball business.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 9:06:00 GMT -5
I think the owners are less concerned about a deal getting done because apparently a big chunk of their annual revenue comes from live attendance. So in their minds, they are getting less money by playing in empty stadiums, the players are asking for prorated salaries, and the only real money maker for owners in 2020 would be playoff revenue (which isn't guaranteed because a 2nd wave in the fall could prevent the playoffs from happening). A 50 game season means the players would be paid 30% of their salaries prorated, so that combined with playoff money is probably the only way owners feel they can make money on a truncated season with no fans. It sucks because being the first sport back on July 4th weekend (assuming it is safe to do so) is like the easiest short term publicity grab ever. If the NBA is coming back July 31, that means MLB would have 4 weeks to themselves in July. Mic the players up, try different things to get engagement from TV audiences, have robo umps, etc. Show the world for one month that baseball is a fun sport for all ages. It would be a rare occasion where everyone's eye balls would be on MLB out of necessity. Hell, I know it won't fit the regional schedule they'd have to do, but start the season with the Yankees vs. Astros in a neutral site. ESPN would easily promote that given the cheating scandal and how it directly impacted the Yankees in two different seasons. They are playing Korean baseball on their channel. They'd definitely pay for a bunch of MLB content in July if they were in the only game in town. Some times you have to take a short term hit for long term growth. Baseball is unwilling to do that, and I don't even know if I can blame Manfred. He works for the owners and does what they tell him to do. I think the owners are just happy with their guaranteed profits every year and don't really care if the game grows or not, which is only going to hurt long term. It's not even about being able to see the long-term picture. The past labor stoppage hurt baseball for years when it was way more popular than it is today. It wouldn't hurt baseball years or decades from now, it would hurt baseball the second they announced there would be no season. They'd be affecting tons of gross earnings over 60-ish games. What does their next TV deal look like with even more decline in popularity? Having basically no baseball save for a few spring training games for 16 momths is gonna be a huge hit to baseball, even before the fan backlash over it being a money dispute. If it were only a coronavirus issue and they lost a season, it would still be a hit to their stock. The owners know this, they'd just rather be douchebag misers than have a baseball season despite the fact they're in the baseball business. Oh, it will definitely hurt short term, but long term will be a lot worse. The average MLB fan is 57. Those fans might stick with MLB short term even if play does not resume in 2020 (love of the game, force of habit, etc), but long term it would be suicide for the sport. The sad part is, if baseball were not to come back this year, I don't think anyone would really miss it. That's the real danger here. The NBA will be back, the NHL will be back, and the NFL should start on schedule. All these sports are going to begin around the same time (August/Sept). Then there is (for now) the rapid quick turnaround between the end of the NBA playoffs and the start of the following season's training camp, and in between that there's the draft. If the NBA is going to compete with MLB going forward for summer viewership, then all MLB is doing by bickering about money is giving the NBA a head start on stealing some of their fans away. If MLB is the only sport not returning, and we don't see them back until March 2021, then there are more than enough other options (never mind entertainment options like Netflix, Hulu, etc) for fans to potentially move on. On a semi related note, MLB is so bad at marketing. The NBA YouTube channel has posted 31 videos since May 22. The MLB YouTube channel has posted 5 over that same span. The last MLB posted video was a concert at Fenway Park by a group called "Dropkick Murphy". I'm in my 30's and I have no clue who that group is (apologies to any of their fans). I can't imagine anyone below my age would have any interest in clicking on that video. If I'm working for MLB's marketing team, I'm pumping out 5 videos a day right now. When Jordan's documentary was going on, I would have spammed the MLB YT page with Jordan minor league highlights. There is so much opportunity to try to attract a younger audience, and MLB is failing at practically all of it.
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Jun 5, 2020 10:10:46 GMT -5
It's not even about being able to see the long-term picture. The past labor stoppage hurt baseball for years when it was way more popular than it is today. It wouldn't hurt baseball years or decades from now, it would hurt baseball the second they announced there would be no season. They'd be affecting tons of gross earnings over 60-ish games. What does their next TV deal look like with even more decline in popularity? Having basically no baseball save for a few spring training games for 16 momths is gonna be a huge hit to baseball, even before the fan backlash over it being a money dispute. If it were only a coronavirus issue and they lost a season, it would still be a hit to their stock. The owners know this, they'd just rather be douchebag misers than have a baseball season despite the fact they're in the baseball business. Oh, it will definitely hurt short term, but long term will be a lot worse. The average MLB fan is 57. Those fans might stick with MLB short term even if play does not resume in 2020 (love of the game, force of habit, etc), but long term it would be suicide for the sport. The sad part is, if baseball were not to come back this year, I don't think anyone would really miss it. That's the real danger here. The NBA will be back, the NHL will be back, and the NFL should start on schedule. All these sports are going to begin around the same time (August/Sept). Then there is (for now) the rapid quick turnaround between the end of the NBA playoffs and the start of the following season's training camp, and in between that there's the draft. If the NBA is going to compete with MLB going forward for summer viewership, then all MLB is doing by bickering about money is giving the NBA a head start on stealing some of their fans away. If MLB is the only sport not returning, and we don't see them back until March 2021, then there are more than enough other options (never mind entertainment options like Netflix, Hulu, etc) for fans to potentially move on. On a semi related note, MLB is so bad at marketing. The NBA YouTube channel has posted 31 videos since May 22. The MLB YouTube channel has posted 5 over that same span. The last MLB posted video was a concert at Fenway Park by a group called "Dropkick Murphy". I'm in my 30's and I have no clue who that group is (apologies to any of their fans). I can't imagine anyone below my age would have any interest in clicking on that video. If I'm working for MLB's marketing team, I'm pumping out 5 videos a day right now. When Jordan's documentary was going on, I would have spammed the MLB YT page with Jordan minor league highlights. There is so much opportunity to try to attract a younger audience, and MLB is failing at practically all of it. I agree. The MLB completely runs the time between what is usually the NBA draft and the start of the NFL season. Now, the leagues who would normally be over are going to be competing with them even if they do come back. And with a lost season..... I mean, we saw how well that went over for the NHL in the mid-2000s. ESPN didn't even offer them a TV deal, they went to Versus network and ESPN acted like they didn't exist for 10+ years. The MLB actually still gets decent pub on there, and they would be throwing a good chunk of that away in addition to proving to casual fans that they can live without it. They're on very shaky ground to be playing chicken with a lost season.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 5, 2020 10:42:53 GMT -5
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Jun 5, 2020 21:43:15 GMT -5
I'm just going to predict right now that there will be no baseball season this year.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jun 5, 2020 21:53:52 GMT -5
I'm just going to predict right now that there will be no baseball season this year. Without some serious work this sport is going to be on life support in a few years.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 5, 2020 21:59:12 GMT -5
Under no circumstances will 0 MLB games be played this year
That is no hyperbole a death sentence for MLB if they don't get a season this year
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 5, 2020 22:18:56 GMT -5
Under no circumstances will 0 MLB games be played this year That is no hyperbole a death sentence for MLB if they don't get a season this year It's gonna happen but they gotta move the levels of salary and games for this season and figure something out and fast If the NHL and NBA can get this done they gotta or they're gonna continue to look bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 22:33:23 GMT -5
Worst case it will be a ridiculously short season, like 48-52 games. Manfred has the authority to unilaterally start a season of any length as long as the players are getting their prorated salaries. I think best case the MLBPA and MLB come to an agreement on a season around 80 games, but worst case (or maybe likely) scenario is they can't agree on anything, Manfred implements the 48-52 game season, and the players go along with it because 30% of their salary is better than 0%.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 6, 2020 22:42:02 GMT -5
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