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Post by mauled on May 18, 2020 5:39:47 GMT -5
I really dug Part 2. I think it makes the redemption of his Mania match with Cena that much better when you see how much he really busted his ass to get to that point. The next episode, on the other hand, with the DX/BoD match from Saudi is going to be another rough one, I feel. That match was f***ing depressing. Yeah... especially since Shawn returned for that one. I think narrative of the whole series is that Undertaker is looking for reasons to have one more match. Either redemption for a clunker or trying to have one last great one He's never gonna have that one last great one though.That's the tragedy. I guess you could say the Boneyard match was good (not great) but that was unique due to the unique circumstances of this time.
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Post by optikk on May 18, 2020 10:40:00 GMT -5
This docuseries has been fantastic so far. Michelle McCool has to be one of the most supportive spouses I've ever come across. This man is basically bionic at this stage and she's still letting him get in the ring, damn.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on May 18, 2020 15:21:02 GMT -5
There is a part of me that looks at Undertaker and thinks he's a broken guy who just cannot let go and will never be happy in himself because of that - but there is another part of me that still totally loves the guy and is really impressed that he genuinely seems to want to do things that make his fans happy, makes Vince happy and makes himself happy - he genuinely seems to have a truly determined work ethic.
Now WWE has embraced the cinematic style, I say he easily has a few more years in him for some special attraction matches in that style.
I still say his final match should be him and Kane, and it ends with them both going away for good.
If he wants to retire and wants to go, let him do something for his anniversary at Survivor Series, have it end with a Kane return, build from November through to WM, then next year, if WM can be a big thing by then, boom.
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Post by mauled on May 18, 2020 18:57:29 GMT -5
There is a part of me that looks at Undertaker and thinks he's a broken guy who just cannot let go and will never be happy in himself because of that - but there is another part of me that still totally loves the guy and is really impressed that he genuinely seems to want to do things that make his fans happy, makes Vince happy and makes himself happy - he genuinely seems to have a truly determined work ethic. Now WWE has embraced the cinematic style, I say he easily has a few more years in him for some special attraction matches in that style. I still say his final match should be him and Kane, and it ends with them both going away for good. If he wants to retire and wants to go, let him do something for his anniversary at Survivor Series, have it end with a Kane return, build from November through to WM, then next year, if WM can be a big thing by then, boom. From Survivor Series 1990 to 2020 would be a great end point but why Kane, he's beaten the guy multiple times over the decades. It's not like he was even his greatest opponent either. Wrestlemania as a boon end has already passed twice anyway a third just wouldn't work. Not with those Saudi Payday shows afterwards anyway.
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Post by Redbeard's Ghost on May 18, 2020 20:45:50 GMT -5
Part 2 got to me a little, I'm not afraid to admit it. Seeing the relationship Vince and Taker have and thinking about the battles they have gone through together. I realize it is the "in" thing to criticize Vince due to his lackluster creative control stuff, but there is no doubting the man is a dynamo. He is ALL ego, so seeing him drop that ego for even a millisecond when talking about Taker was cool. Loved Taker's Psalm 144:1 sign too. I have that some verse on my back.
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Post by Milkman Norm on May 19, 2020 0:17:17 GMT -5
I was hoping they would have got into why the build for the Cena match was no build at all. But other than Cena saying they had to *kayfabe* lure the Undertaker back they really didn't.
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Post by Milkman Norm on May 19, 2020 0:20:12 GMT -5
Part 2 got to me a little, I'm not afraid to admit it. Seeing the relationship Vince and Taker have and thinking about the battles they have gone through together. I realize it is the "in" thing to criticize Vince due to his lackluster creative control stuff, but there is no doubting the man is a dynamo. He is ALL ego, so seeing him drop that ego for even a millisecond when talking about Taker was cool. Loved Taker's Psalm 144:1 sign too. I have that some verse on my back. It's clear Vince has a massive ego. But I don't think he's *all* ego. You see his relationship with Taker, you hear about him going to everyone of Stephanie's high school games, or hiring Terry Gordy for a payday after the stroke when it was clear that he nothing left. Like he has done, and will continue to do scummy things. But he also has this other side.
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Post by berlynwright on May 19, 2020 2:01:02 GMT -5
Part 2 got to me a little, I'm not afraid to admit it. Seeing the relationship Vince and Taker have and thinking about the battles they have gone through together. I realize it is the "in" thing to criticize Vince due to his lackluster creative control stuff, but there is no doubting the man is a dynamo. He is ALL ego, so seeing him drop that ego for even a millisecond when talking about Taker was cool. Loved Taker's Psalm 144:1 sign too. I have that some verse on my back. It's clear Vince has a massive ego. But I don't think he's *all* ego. You see his relationship with Taker, you hear about him going to everyone of Stephanie's high school games, or hiring Terry Gordy for a payday after the stroke when it was clear that he nothing left. Like he has done, and will continue to do scummy things. But he also has this other side.
He has also helped many former WWF/E guys who had substance abuse and health issues
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Legion
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Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on May 19, 2020 4:17:39 GMT -5
There is a part of me that looks at Undertaker and thinks he's a broken guy who just cannot let go and will never be happy in himself because of that - but there is another part of me that still totally loves the guy and is really impressed that he genuinely seems to want to do things that make his fans happy, makes Vince happy and makes himself happy - he genuinely seems to have a truly determined work ethic. Now WWE has embraced the cinematic style, I say he easily has a few more years in him for some special attraction matches in that style. I still say his final match should be him and Kane, and it ends with them both going away for good. If he wants to retire and wants to go, let him do something for his anniversary at Survivor Series, have it end with a Kane return, build from November through to WM, then next year, if WM can be a big thing by then, boom. From Survivor Series 1990 to 2020 would be a great end point but why Kane, he's beaten the guy multiple times over the decades. It's not like he was even his greatest opponent either. Wrestlemania as a boon end has already passed twice anyway a third just wouldn't work. Not with those Saudi Payday shows afterwards anyway. The story. With the use of the cinematic matches, they can do a real ending to the whole Brother's of Destruction stuff. I think it'd work and was surely what the cinematic match was made for, effects and supernatural shenanigans.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on May 19, 2020 8:02:51 GMT -5
Just watched part 1.
With the likes of Edge, Austin and Foley commentating on it, men who's career got cut short and ripped out off their hands, Taker's dilemma of when to give up doesn't hold water.
He's had a great career and a stint that will never be seen again. He's been lucky to never sustain a career ending injury.
I would rather he said he likes his job and the money and fame along with it and leave it at that.
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Post by Snake Pit on May 19, 2020 11:12:45 GMT -5
Just watched part 1. With the likes of Edge, Austin and Foley commentating on it, men who's career got cut short and ripped out off their hands, Taker's dilemma of when to give up doesn't hold water. He's had a great career and a stint that will never be seen again. He's been lucky to never sustain a career ending injury. I would rather he said he likes his job and the money and fame along with it and leave it at that. I think the point of Taker letting the WWE do this series is to show how difficult it is to walk away for those who have a choice. Seems kind of odd for you to say it ''doesn't hold water'' when Edge is back in the ring.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on May 19, 2020 11:38:12 GMT -5
Just watched part 1. With the likes of Edge, Austin and Foley commentating on it, men who's career got cut short and ripped out off their hands, Taker's dilemma of when to give up doesn't hold water. He's had a great career and a stint that will never be seen again. He's been lucky to never sustain a career ending injury. I would rather he said he likes his job and the money and fame along with it and leave it at that. I think the point of Taker letting the WWE do this series is to show how difficult it is to walk away for those who have a choice. Seems kind of odd for you to say it ''doesn't hold water'' when Edge is back in the ring. Edge had a second shot after a decade of forcibly staying away from the business. It's a personal choice, but people like Shawn Michaels, Warrior and Savage did walk away after successful careers and clocking so many airmiles. I'm just saying there is nothing stopping Taker walking away other than his own desire to be in it.
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Post by Joe Neglia on May 20, 2020 0:06:03 GMT -5
He has also helped many former WWF/E guys who had substance abuse and health issues I've often wondered how truly altruistic that was/is, and how much of it is just him being more concerned about "WWE wrestler dead at 46" headlines.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 20, 2020 0:10:11 GMT -5
He has also helped many former WWF/E guys who had substance abuse and health issues I've often wondered how truly altruistic that was/is, and how much of it is just him being more concerned about "WWE wrestler dead at 46" headlines. Probably some of both. I also kind of think Elizabeth's death contributed to that, given it's one of the ones he unambiguously cared about.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on May 20, 2020 6:51:57 GMT -5
Anyone know if this covers earlier periods in his career?
I would love to hear his thoughts Golden Era through to Attitude Era
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Post by marvelocity on May 22, 2020 22:02:33 GMT -5
Anyone else see the shot of Benoit on the Royal Rumble poster in Taker's training warehouse? Kinda weird they would keep this banner, seeing as they edited it with Faarooq on most media post 2007.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 24, 2020 9:27:48 GMT -5
Yeah... especially since Shawn returned for that one. I think narrative of the whole series is that Undertaker is looking for reasons to have one more match. Either redemption for a clunker or trying to have one last great one He's never gonna have that one last great one though.That's the tragedy. I guess you could say the Boneyard match was good (not great) but that was unique due to the unique circumstances of this time. I’d say the Boneyard Match was great, it was pretty universally praised. The problem I see is that I’m sure Taker would rather that last great one be in front of a crowd. Fingers crossed for a Taker-Sting cinematic match sometime soon.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on May 24, 2020 14:46:50 GMT -5
So I just watched Part 3. The trailer for this episode was a bit misleading in that it implied this episode largely dealt with the tag match in Saudi, whereas they only spent about the last 5 or so minutes discussing the match itself. They also spent a large swath of time giving context to the Crown Jewel match by discussing the 4 Mania matches with Shawn and Triple H, which seemed unnecessary given the audience for these things, but we got some great unseen footage from it, so I can't really complain. Compared to the first two episodes, which had a clear chronological trajectory, this was kind of bouncing all over the place. Probably the weakest of the 3, but given how much it would've taken to live up to the first two, that isn't really a criticism.
Next episode covers 2019, and how apparently Taker's lack of a match at WM35 led to the infamous Goldberg match in Saudi. That goes up on June 14th.
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Post by edgestar on May 24, 2020 17:08:34 GMT -5
So I just watched Part 3. The trailer for this episode was a bit misleading in that it implied this episode largely dealt with the tag match in Saudi, whereas they only spent about the last 5 or so minutes discussing the match itself. They also spent a large swath of time giving context to the Crown Jewel match by discussing the 4 Mania matches with Shawn and Triple H, which seemed unnecessary given the audience for these things, but we got some great unseen footage from it, so I can't really complain. Compared to the first two episodes, which had a clear chronological trajectory, this was kind of bouncing all over the place. Probably the weakest of the 3, but given how much it would've taken to live up to the first two, that isn't really a criticism. Next episode covers 2019, and how apparently Taker's lack of a match at WM35 led to the infamous Goldberg match in Saudi. That goes up on June 14th. I thought the 3rd chapter was the weaker episode, so far, but certainly worth a look.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on May 24, 2020 19:59:03 GMT -5
That Taker/HHH match in Australia was a snore, I'm surprised they didn't go into that. Man, with all these clunkers in a row, this doc is kinda a downer, but it is very interesting. It was cool to see him working with younger guys (Owens) in MSG. My favorite match of his in the last few years has been the Rusev one, and I'm glad they covered that a bit in Part 3.
Seeing '98 Kane w/o a mask was legitimately shocking. I had to rewind that a few times.
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