|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 21, 2020 13:43:52 GMT -5
I thought the original Civil War was decent. Did it get a number of things wrong? Probably. But I thought it was a good read, and I've read it numerous times. Also, I was with Team Cap. It still boggles my mind that Mark Millar thought people would sympathize with Iron Man.
|
|
|
Post by mike1287 on Apr 21, 2020 13:45:57 GMT -5
No he didn't. Spider-man won. Twice. When he's 'dying' he convinces one of his greatest enemies, the man who 'killed him', to become a good guy, or at to least try to. Then, when Otto realized he wasn't up to the job, steps aside to allow Peter to return to deal with a threat he couldn't. I've seen a million articles that refute everything you just said. And I agree with them Superior was worse than One More Day, at least I recognised every character in OMD even when they were acting out of it, Dan Slott is a talentless hack and the "broken watch" of Spider-Man writers, right once or twice, but for the most part a very poor hand. I've seen a billion articles that agree with me though, so I win?
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 21, 2020 14:40:32 GMT -5
I've seen a million articles that refute everything you just said. And I agree with them Superior was worse than One More Day, at least I recognised every character in OMD even when they were acting out of it, Dan Slott is a talentless hack and the "broken watch" of Spider-Man writers, right once or twice, but for the most part a very poor hand. I've seen a billion articles that agree with me though, so I win? I want to stress that this is not a thread for this nonsense. Allow each other to have their opinions. Entire point of the thread. Trying to turn this into a fight to "win" will be a bad idea for anyone going further.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 21, 2020 14:46:53 GMT -5
I thought the original Civil War was decent. Did it get a number of things wrong? Probably. But I thought it was a good read, and I've read it numerous times. Also, I was with Team Cap. It still boggles my mind that Mark Millar thought people would sympathize with Iron Man. Supposedly Marvel as a whole thought you should sympathize with Iron Man... but then they ok'd Iron man and his side to basically operate like fascists... and do unbelievably horrible things to people that were their friends and allies... like the "negative zone prison" which Reed Richards knows that spending time in the Negative Zone causes the human body unbelievable amounts of mental and physical strain... Hank Pym having no problems with Robot Clones (of their friends at that) when... he should probably be the one to step up with you know I tried this before and it didn't really work out too well for me... the f***ing thunderbolts... including Venom at his most brain eatingest monster form being Tony's hit squad... and sending them to attack Spider-man after he said that he thought they went too far... I mean Cap's side isn't entirely clean either there were a bunch of times he and his team did a bunch of things that really only endangered people instead of you know... protecting them like heroes. Also Parker publicly unmasking was unnecessary and literally served no purpose but to make headlines... in universe the Cap vs. Iron Man wasn't about having everyone know that Peter Parker is Spider-man vs. No one knowing he's Spider-man ... it was about having Peter Parker's name on a top secret list probably in SHIELD somewhere so you can have some level of accountability... which makes some semblance of sense until you realize how often SHIELD has been compromised >_> Civil War was a mess and no one came out looking good in it... and htere's a reason why they almost immediately went into... ACTUALLY all these people were really Skrulls this entire time!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 16:31:19 GMT -5
Harley's relationship with Ivy is much more interesting than the relationship with Joker. Basically every possible story beat with the Joker's already been done to death and it's sketchy as all hell trying to keep Harley in his abusive orbit, especially when it's portrayed as a good thing.
Related with Joker - the character needs to be scaled back. Badly. So many people at this point write the guy as just the most sadistic, evil thing imaginable that they forget that more than anything he's supposed to be out for a laugh. If you run into the Joker in a dark alley he should be just as likely to leave you alone or to harmlessly throw a pie at you as he is to disembowel you.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 21, 2020 16:32:35 GMT -5
Related with Joker - the character needs to be scaled back. Badly. So many people at this point write the guy as just the most sadistic, evil thing imaginable that they forget that more than anything he's supposed to be out for a laugh. If you run into the Joker in a dark alley he should be just as likely to leave you alone or to harmlessly throw a pie at you as he is to disembowel you.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 21, 2020 16:36:18 GMT -5
Harley's relationship with Ivy is much more interesting than the relationship with Joker. Basically every possible story beat with the Joker's already been done to death and it's sketchy as all hell trying to keep Harley in his abusive orbit, especially when it's portrayed as a good thing.. I will say I think there is more to explore with Harley dealing with her co-dependence issues in general. I vaguely remember Ivy basically saying that at one point too... and kinda wondering if she was feeding into it.
|
|
Ultimo Gallos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 15,289
|
Post by Ultimo Gallos on Apr 21, 2020 16:51:56 GMT -5
LoEG,the first volume,is great art and a boring as hell story. I rather watch the movie than read that comic again. WHich is odd cause normally I have enjoyed pretty much everything Alan Moore has done.
The New Defenders,vol 1 issues 126 thru 152,is the best X title of the 80s.
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Apr 21, 2020 20:17:42 GMT -5
I thought the original Civil War was decent. Did it get a number of things wrong? Probably. But I thought it was a good read, and I've read it numerous times. Also, I was with Team Cap. It still boggles my mind that Mark Millar thought people would sympathize with Iron Man. Which is hilarious because most of Tony's well meaning plans backfire. Hard. Armor Wars, Force Works, faking his death due to his degenerative disease, his ideas kinda sucked. What should've happened was all the heroes get together and try to explain why this is a bad idea and Reed tell the government AGAIN why this plan will backfire.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 21, 2020 21:06:47 GMT -5
It still boggles my mind that Mark Millar thought people would sympathize with Iron Man. Which is hilarious because most of Tony's well meaning plans backfire. Hard. Armor Wars, Force Works, faking his death due to his degenerative disease, his ideas kinda sucked. What should've happened was all the heroes get together and try to explain why this is a bad idea and Reed tell the government AGAIN why this plan will backfire. I think the problem with Civil War was its structure was inherently going to make one side look like the bad guys even if Millar thought it didnt. While I'm at it it's hypocritical as f*** for Millar to write Civil War about how superheroes wanting to help people should be thrown in cages; he'd just written The Authority where the tone of his entire run was "wouldn't it be great if a bunch of superpowered assholes answerable to nobody killed everyone I personally disapprove of"
|
|
|
Post by BlackoutCreature on Apr 21, 2020 21:30:14 GMT -5
The problem with Civil War was that it was a situation that could've easily been resolved if both sides had just sat down and hammered out a compromise, which if everybody behaved in character they would've easily done. Of course then you don't have a story. So you have to make at least one side look like an idiot no matter how little sense it makes. It's like a 70's sitcom where the entire plot of the episode could've been avoided with a 30 second conversation at the start of the episode.
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,423
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 22, 2020 4:11:41 GMT -5
Another problem was it was based on a premise that makes sense in universe, but ignores the audience.
In universe, would registration be good? Probably, if there were people with super powers running around in the real world, yeah, I'd want them to have some accountability.
But in comics, they'd already spent decades in the X-Men books, TV show and movies saying that hero registration was wrong, racist and something only villains wanted. So you've already hardwired your audience to be against the idea in the first place. Could you get around that? Maybe, but you'd need to write very carefully, and need more than a C list superhero fight having collateral damage against nameless characters as the instigating incident.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 22, 2020 4:24:25 GMT -5
We're losing focus of the thread topic, guys.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 4:59:42 GMT -5
Relatively minor - I know it's one of the things from the New 52 people actually like but I actually think that version of the Batman costume is really bad. Not a fan of the overly armored look, especially the overly detailed knees. Also I generally dislike Batman costumes that have short ears, other than Adam West.
|
|
|
Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 22, 2020 15:33:16 GMT -5
As much as I like them, I want Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill to permanently retire from their respective roles. It's time to let other voice actors take the helm.
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 22, 2020 16:19:02 GMT -5
It still boggles my mind that Mark Millar thought people would sympathize with Iron Man. Supposedly Marvel as a whole thought you should sympathize with Iron Man... but then they ok'd Iron man and his side to basically operate like fascists... I mean... Ike Perlmutter. As much as I like them, I want Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill to permanently retire from their respective roles. It's time to let other voice actors take the helm. I totally agree. I thought Bruce Greenwood was an amazing Batman in Young Justice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 18:11:19 GMT -5
As much as I like them, I want Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill to permanently retire from their respective roles. It's time to let other voice actors take the helm. I don't mind the idea of them continuing to do the voices, but I do mind other people who just do impressions of them. Joker in particular - the animated Dark Knight Returns Joker was an amazing breath of fresh air pretty much entirely because the guy was doing his own thing with it instead of a Hamill impression like basically every other person who plays the role does. It's even worse when it's a bad impression. Like Batman Ninja, guy's clearly trying to sound like Hamill but it's coming out sounding more like Monokuma and it's just weird.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 0:24:07 GMT -5
Harley's relationship with Ivy is much more interesting than the relationship with Joker. Basically every possible story beat with the Joker's already been done to death and it's sketchy as all hell trying to keep Harley in his abusive orbit, especially when it's portrayed as a good thing. Related with Joker - the character needs to be scaled back. Badly. So many people at this point write the guy as just the most sadistic, evil thing imaginable that they forget that more than anything he's supposed to be out for a laugh. If you run into the Joker in a dark alley he should be just as likely to leave you alone or to harmlessly throw a pie at you as he is to disembowel you. Speaking of Harley, I really wish she would stop being portrayed as a cheap, quirky hooker all the time. She's much more interesting in her original BtAS portrayl. Why must she always have rainbow pigtails and a stripper outfit and be incredibly crude nowadays?
|
|
CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,270
|
Post by CMWaters on Apr 23, 2020 0:35:14 GMT -5
Harley's relationship with Ivy is much more interesting than the relationship with Joker. Basically every possible story beat with the Joker's already been done to death and it's sketchy as all hell trying to keep Harley in his abusive orbit, especially when it's portrayed as a good thing. Related with Joker - the character needs to be scaled back. Badly. So many people at this point write the guy as just the most sadistic, evil thing imaginable that they forget that more than anything he's supposed to be out for a laugh. If you run into the Joker in a dark alley he should be just as likely to leave you alone or to harmlessly throw a pie at you as he is to disembowel you. Speaking of Harley, I really wish she would stop being portrayed as a cheap, quirky hooker all the time. She's much more interesting in her original BtAS portrayl. Why must she always have rainbow pigtails and a stripper outfit and be incredibly crude nowadays? The Harley Quinn TV series kinda explains it as her making her own identity away from Joker...the old outfit representing her ties to him and such.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 0:52:04 GMT -5
Harley's relationship with Ivy is much more interesting than the relationship with Joker. Basically every possible story beat with the Joker's already been done to death and it's sketchy as all hell trying to keep Harley in his abusive orbit, especially when it's portrayed as a good thing. Related with Joker - the character needs to be scaled back. Badly. So many people at this point write the guy as just the most sadistic, evil thing imaginable that they forget that more than anything he's supposed to be out for a laugh. If you run into the Joker in a dark alley he should be just as likely to leave you alone or to harmlessly throw a pie at you as he is to disembowel you. Speaking of Harley, I really wish she would stop being portrayed as a cheap, quirky hooker all the time. She's much more interesting in her original BtAS portrayl. Why must she always have rainbow pigtails and a stripper outfit and be incredibly crude nowadays?
|
|