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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 1:56:32 GMT -5
Speaking of Harley, I really wish she would stop being portrayed as a cheap, quirky hooker all the time. She's much more interesting in her original BtAS portrayl. Why must she always have rainbow pigtails and a stripper outfit and be incredibly crude nowadays? Yeah, I f***ed up here. I didn't stop to think about those words, which can paint me in a gross light that I don't intend...which doesn't excuse me.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 2:09:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I f***ed up here. I didn't stop to think about those words, which can paint me in a gross light that I don't intend...which doesn't excuse me. That was more for your post's illustrating my point in my original post that started the Quinn conversation more so than the hooker comment.
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Post by thechase on Apr 23, 2020 2:10:01 GMT -5
Speaking of Harley, I really wish she would stop being portrayed as a cheap, quirky hooker all the time. She's much more interesting in her original BtAS portrayl. Why must she always have rainbow pigtails and a stripper outfit and be incredibly crude nowadays? The Harley Quinn TV series kinda explains it as her making her own identity away from Joker...the old outfit representing her ties to him and such. The Harley tv series also managed to somehow make Kite Man and Ivy a more interesting relationship than Harley and Ivy ever truly has been
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 2:26:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I f***ed up here. I didn't stop to think about those words, which can paint me in a gross light that I don't intend...which doesn't excuse me. That was more for your post's illustrating my point in my original post that started the Quinn conversation more so than the hooker comment. Ah, fair point. I'm still not off the hook for that comment, depsite that, nor should I be. I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll stop now.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 2:33:36 GMT -5
That was more for your post's illustrating my point in my original post that started the Quinn conversation more so than the hooker comment. Ah, fair point. I'm still not off the hook for that comment, depsite that, nor should I be. I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll stop now. Don't worry too much on it. Your response was a million times better than those who tend to hunker down and double up on it, so props to be given where they're due. For everyone: Yes, let's definitely move on. This thread isn't really for us to have lengthy pages-long back and forth on any of the given opinions.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 3:22:02 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at:
Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 3:27:43 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at: Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain. I have long wanted to see someone try and tackle him again. As it is, yeah, he's a boring waste with a stupid backstory, but the overall concept has a lot of potential. I feel like if he ever turned up in a cartoon or if he'd been in the Ultimate books or something then it could've ended up being something special.
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Post by Raskovnik on Apr 23, 2020 3:30:34 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at: Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain. I'm honestly in full agreement with this, and as a kid was awed at how cool and mysterious he was. His design is also badass.
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Post by thechase on Apr 23, 2020 3:50:24 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at: Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain. Judas and Scrier were awesome characters...at the very least they still did something with the Scrier concept, retconning him as a member of some cult that worshipped Osborn...but they were only ever used beyond the 90s in Spider-Girl comics. To my understanding, Judas is still regarded with utter disdain by every senior figure at Marvel...so much so he has a Poochy-like legal decree stating he'll never ever return.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 23, 2020 4:00:34 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at: Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain. Judas and Scrier were awesome characters...at the very least they still did something with the Scrier concept, retconning him as a member of some cult that worshipped Osborn...but they were only ever used beyond the 90s in Spider-Girl comics. To my understanding, Judas is still regarded with utter disdain by every senior figure at Marvel...so much so he has a Poochy-like legal decree stating he'll never ever return. It's what happens when he seems to have every power ... has no real direction as a character... no one really knew what his deal was and they decided they'd figure it out later... only by the time they did it was too late and it also didn't really make any sense. they could have done something with him but there needed to be a clearly defined who he is, what he can do, and WHY.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 4:14:55 GMT -5
It's what happens when he seems to have every power ... has no real direction as a character... no one really knew what his deal was and they decided they'd figure it out later... only by the time they did it was too late and it also didn't really make any sense. they could have done something with him but there needed to be a clearly defined who he is, what he can do, and WHY. DeMatteis had a plan for him but left halfway through, leaving DeFalco - who didn't care for the character at all - to wrap things up. Next up: Keith Giffen's Supreme > Alan Moore's Supreme
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2020 4:27:49 GMT -5
Here's one for all of you to eyeroll hard at: Judas Traveler had incredible potential to be a top 10 recurring Spider-Man villain. He's one of the examples I think of when I think that I would adore seeing Spider-Man movies tackle stuff that didn't quite work in the comics for various reasons. Judas, maybe Jackal and the clones, etc. Take what worked, have a cohesive, to-the-point approach, and deliver it in a medium that doesn't have changing editor regimes f***ing it up. Like, yes, I'm glad to see loved stories being tried onscreen, but I feel like there's something more interesting in giving maligned concepts a second chance to work.
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Post by thechase on Apr 23, 2020 4:33:23 GMT -5
I'm not sure if any of you have, but try to check out the Clone Saga director's cut that came out in 2009 (trade name is "The Real Clone Saga"), it kind of flew under the radar when it came out due to the fading stars of DeFalco and Mackie, but it cuts down the 90s story and does away with the stuff that didn't make any sense, it also does a decent job of concluding the Spider-Man story in an open-ended way...if Marvel rebooted the franchise tomorrow, they should really start from where this left off.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2020 4:39:57 GMT -5
I guess this maybe would count:
I don't think it ever makes much sense when they have Joker trying to find out Batman's identity. That seems antithetical to who Joker usually is. Could it help him target his loved ones easier? Sure, but whoop de shit. He gets to Batman plenty as it is with his usual operations.
The big reason, though, is that the dude under the mask is... a dude in a mask. If anything, it'd make more sense if Joker shot a henchman of his or something for *trying* to unmask Batman and ruining the entire point. Joker is Joker 24/7, and I can't really picture any satisfaction for him in whatever answer would be under the mask when the whole point is he lives for this.
It'd be like if some kinkster shelled out thousands of dollars to make a sex dungeon, and they use it for vanilla sex twice a year.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2020 5:26:12 GMT -5
I guess this maybe would count: I don't think it ever makes much sense when they have Joker trying to find out Batman's identity. That seems antithetical to who Joker usually is. Could it help him target his loved ones easier? Sure, but whoop de shit. He gets to Batman plenty as it is with his usual operations. The big reason, though, is that the dude under the mask is... a dude in a mask. If anything, it'd make more sense if Joker shot a henchman of his or something for *trying* to unmask Batman and ruining the entire point. Joker is Joker 24/7, and I can't really picture any satisfaction for him in whatever answer would be under the mask when the whole point is he lives for this. It'd be like if some kinkster shelled out thousands of dollars to make a sex dungeon, and they use it for vanilla sex twice a year. I've always preferred the interpretation of the Joker that he knows exactly who Batman is but he's only interested in him in the costume because that's the real thing.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 5:29:07 GMT -5
I'm honestly not aware of any stories where Joker was trying to ID Bats (but I'm woefully out of step with everything since just before New 52). Whenever it's come up that I've seen, Joker shows complete disinterest in knowing, and even in one story raged at a minion for trying to unmask him, which would "ruin the fun"
But that said? Any story that does go in the direction of Joker trying to ID him would be dumb.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Apr 23, 2020 5:35:56 GMT -5
I'm honestly not aware of any stories where Joker was trying to ID Bats (but I'm woefully out of step with everything since just before New 52). Whenever it's come up that I've seen, Joker shows complete disinterest in knowing, and even in one story raged at a minion for trying to unmask him, which would "ruin the fun" The first season finale of Harley Quinn established this as well. (language)
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 23, 2020 5:38:42 GMT -5
I'm honestly not aware of any stories where Joker was trying to ID Bats (but I'm woefully out of step with everything since just before New 52). Whenever it's come up that I've seen, Joker shows complete disinterest in knowing, and even in one story raged at a minion for trying to unmask him, which would "ruin the fun" The first season finale of Harley Quinn made a great point about this. (language) That's a (nearly-)direct adaptation of the minion scene I mentioned. It was just some goon instead of Scarecrow, though.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2020 6:08:53 GMT -5
I'm honestly not aware of any stories where Joker was trying to ID Bats (but I'm woefully out of step with everything since just before New 52). Whenever it's come up that I've seen, Joker shows complete disinterest in knowing, and even in one story raged at a minion for trying to unmask him, which would "ruin the fun" But that said? Any story that does go in the direction of Joker trying to ID him would be dumb. Well, that's good. I guess I am mostly thinking of the Return of Joker Batman Beyond thing, which, I guess even there, it wasn't his specific goal, it was a secondary result of his brainwashing Tim Drake.
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Post by thechase on Apr 23, 2020 7:26:01 GMT -5
For the upcoming Joker War storyline in the comics, Joker once again knows the Identity, in fact, he knows all their identities.
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