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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 15, 2021 11:34:06 GMT -5
I wish Mr. Ayer would accept that he made a shit ass movie and that he's a shit ass director.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Aug 15, 2021 21:24:16 GMT -5
Joker ripped like an MMA fighter? I do enjoy it when Joker can physically match Bats, but a jacked and juiced up evil clown just doesn’t feel….right. I mean Joker can be lanky but still obviously in shape and strong but making him jacked up just seems like another thing that is missing the point.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Aug 16, 2021 4:00:52 GMT -5
I think the ideal way to use the Joker is that he should be both weaker and less intelligent than Bruce, but able to hang with him due to a mix of being unpredictable and being willing to go to depths that Bruce won't. Not really a fan of physically a badass, mentally basically omniscient Joker.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 16, 2021 4:09:31 GMT -5
I think the ideal way to use the Joker is that he should be both weaker and less intelligent than Bruce, but able to hang with him due to a mix of being unpredictable and being willing to go to depths that Bruce won't. Not really a fan of physically a badass, mentally basically omniscient Joker. I'm cool with Joker being a great chemist and manipulator, but he is even worse than other "smart" characters, where bad writing decides intelligent characters are the Professor from Gilligan's island, perfect in all disciplines and all brilliant inventors. Like, sure, Hank Pym and Reed Richards are both considerably smarter than Tony Stark, but he'd still be the dude you'd go to to make power armor.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 19, 2021 23:13:33 GMT -5
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Aug 19, 2021 23:56:38 GMT -5
no! no "The Smile"!!!
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,743
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Post by King Devitt on Aug 20, 2021 0:37:34 GMT -5
I would totally watch an Ayer cut.
I would bring the biggest bucket of popcorn and Michael Jackson gif my way through that movie.
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cosmo
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,388
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Post by cosmo on Aug 20, 2021 3:38:40 GMT -5
Honestly, I would rather have the ridiculous bullshittery that the Ayer Cut would surely give us over Zack Snyder's pretentiousness.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 20, 2021 10:36:19 GMT -5
Ayer: "That's it, you better let me release my movie or I'm gonna release the script page by page!"
Literally anyone with a brain: "You do that."
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Post by Savage Gambino on Aug 20, 2021 12:20:21 GMT -5
It does feel like Ayer tries to relive the one big success he's had in every other movie he's written/directed since. And as good a script as Training Day was, Ayer didn't direct that. Antoine Fuqua is a great director and got a lot out of Denzel's and Ethan's performances. Even without the studio interference, the direction of the actors in Suicide Squad was just so... bad. I am so glad somebody said this. Especially since, when you take a step back and look at it, David Ayer's directorial career reads like a series of attempts to do Training Day without Fuqua. Street Kings felt somewhere between an indirect spinoff or a straight-to-DVD sequel to Training Day. Even Bright, a movie about orc cop escorting an elf with a magic wand, takes a whole act two stop in the barrio for some "urban gangsta flava".
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 20, 2021 17:56:17 GMT -5
I think the ideal way to use the Joker is that he should be both weaker and less intelligent than Bruce, but able to hang with him due to a mix of being unpredictable and being willing to go to depths that Bruce won't. Not really a fan of physically a badass, mentally basically omniscient Joker. I'm cool with Joker being a great chemist and manipulator, but he is even worse than other "smart" characters, where bad writing decides intelligent characters are the Professor from Gilligan's island, perfect in all disciplines and all brilliant inventors. Like, sure, Hank Pym and Reed Richards are both considerably smarter than Tony Stark, but he'd still be the dude you'd go to to make power armor. See, what I like about the Hamil BTAS Joker and Ledger Joker is how they feel dangerous and lethal, and he *thinks* he’s smarter than Bruce, but Batman is ultimately a better fighter and too smart a detective for Joker to have the edge forever. Dark Knight is “Shut Up, Hannibal: The Movie”, because Joker is badass and a physical threat but it’s about everyone pointing out he’s a pretentious idiot, and he needs to shut up and go to jail.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Aug 21, 2021 8:30:10 GMT -5
I'm cool with Joker being a great chemist and manipulator, but he is even worse than other "smart" characters, where bad writing decides intelligent characters are the Professor from Gilligan's island, perfect in all disciplines and all brilliant inventors. Like, sure, Hank Pym and Reed Richards are both considerably smarter than Tony Stark, but he'd still be the dude you'd go to to make power armor. See, what I like about the Hamil BTAS Joker and Ledger Joker is how they feel dangerous and lethal, and he *thinks* he’s smarter than Bruce, but Batman is ultimately a better fighter and too smart a detective for Joker to have the edge forever. Dark Knight is “Shut Up, Hannibal: The Movie”, because Joker is badass and a physical threat but it’s about everyone pointing out he’s a pretentious idiot, and he needs to shut up and go to jail. It's wild to me just how many people miss how the entire point of The Dark Knight is "Joker is Wrong", even with an entire ship full of convicts proving Joker wrong.
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cosmo
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,388
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Post by cosmo on Aug 21, 2021 10:11:39 GMT -5
See, what I like about the Hamil BTAS Joker and Ledger Joker is how they feel dangerous and lethal, and he *thinks* he’s smarter than Bruce, but Batman is ultimately a better fighter and too smart a detective for Joker to have the edge forever. Dark Knight is “Shut Up, Hannibal: The Movie”, because Joker is badass and a physical threat but it’s about everyone pointing out he’s a pretentious idiot, and he needs to shut up and go to jail. It's wild to me just how many people miss how the entire point of The Dark Knight is "Joker is Wrong", even with an entire ship full of convicts proving Joker wrong.
It's right up there with people idolizing Tony Montana even though he was a psychotic, murderous coke fiend whose only redeeming feature that I could find was that he didn't want kids to get caught up in the crossfire of an assassination.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 21, 2021 10:26:56 GMT -5
It's wild to me just how many people miss how the entire point of The Dark Knight is "Joker is Wrong", even with an entire ship full of convicts proving Joker wrong. It's right up there with people idolizing Tony Montana even though he was a psychotic, murderous coke fiend whose only redeeming feature that I could find was that he didn't want kids to get caught up in the crossfire of an assassination.
For what it’s worth, there’s a cool YouTube channel called The Vile Eye that does breakdowns of memorable villains like Joker and Montana, and points out why they’re both interesting *and* also what makes their mindsets so incorrect. As much as I love Scarface, it’s like people don’t notice that once he shows that slight bit of empathy, everything he’s created up to that point falls apart. It’s about a guy who trades in all of his humanity for material success.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 21, 2021 15:28:12 GMT -5
See, what I like about the Hamil BTAS Joker and Ledger Joker is how they feel dangerous and lethal, and he *thinks* he’s smarter than Bruce, but Batman is ultimately a better fighter and too smart a detective for Joker to have the edge forever. Dark Knight is “Shut Up, Hannibal: The Movie”, because Joker is badass and a physical threat but it’s about everyone pointing out he’s a pretentious idiot, and he needs to shut up and go to jail. It's wild to me just how many people miss how the entire point of The Dark Knight is "Joker is Wrong", even with an entire ship full of convicts proving Joker wrong. Even before that the ONE BAD DAY! thing Joker likes to use to justify his actions HAVE ALWAYS been proven wrong every time it gets brought up. Jim Gordon didn't become a psychopath after Joker went out of his way to torture him. The two ships of people didn't kill each other. It's not justification it's an excuse. I've also see na lot of people talking about how Magneto was right! recently... which... no... no he's not. He's got a historical context of genocide and the holocaust which is his motivation... and he fears that it's going to happen to the mutants... but.. like... his response to that has always come down to... "I'll do a genocide to them first!"
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,686
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Post by chrom on Aug 21, 2021 15:36:57 GMT -5
It's wild to me just how many people miss how the entire point of The Dark Knight is "Joker is Wrong", even with an entire ship full of convicts proving Joker wrong. Even before that the ONE BAD DAY! thing Joker likes to use to justify his actions HAVE ALWAYS been proven wrong every time it gets brought up. Jim Gordon didn't become a psychopath after Joker went out of his way to torture him. The two ships of people didn't kill each other. It's not justification it's an excuse. I've also see na lot of people talking about how Magneto was right! recently... which... no... no he's not. He's got a historical context of genocide and the holocaust which is his motivation... and he fears that it's going to happen to the mutants... but.. like... his response to that has always come down to... "I'll do a genocide to them first!" At best, Magneto believes humans and mutants can live separate from each other, such as him founding Genosha and creating Asteroid M At worst, he's no different than the Nazis
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Aug 22, 2021 9:29:37 GMT -5
Even before that the ONE BAD DAY! thing Joker likes to use to justify his actions HAVE ALWAYS been proven wrong every time it gets brought up. Jim Gordon didn't become a psychopath after Joker went out of his way to torture him. The two ships of people didn't kill each other. It's not justification it's an excuse. I've also see na lot of people talking about how Magneto was right! recently... which... no... no he's not. He's got a historical context of genocide and the holocaust which is his motivation... and he fears that it's going to happen to the mutants... but.. like... his response to that has always come down to... "I'll do a genocide to them first!" At best, Magneto believes humans and mutants can live separate from each other, such as him founding Genosha and creating Asteroid M At worst, he's no different than the Nazis I still say Grant Morrison's interpretation of Erik as a batshit insane terrorist whose still a terrorist no matter how sympathetic his backstory is the best version of the character. Chris Claremont had this bizarre fixation on trying to redeeem all his villains even though they were completely irredeemable IMO (see also Mystique)
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Post by Cyno on Aug 22, 2021 15:31:16 GMT -5
I liked Magneto's redemption arc where he realized his mutant supremacist approach was the wrong way and aligned more with Xavier, even becoming the leader of the X-Men. He still thinks that it'd be best for Mutants to have a safe haven and a homeland like Genosha, but he's not megalomaniacal about it anymore.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Aug 22, 2021 15:47:25 GMT -5
It does feel like Ayer tries to relive the one big success he's had in every other movie he's written/directed since. And as good a script as Training Day was, Ayer didn't direct that. Antoine Fuqua is a great director and got a lot out of Denzel's and Ethan's performances. Even without the studio interference, the direction of the actors in Suicide Squad was just so... bad. I am so glad somebody said this. Especially since, when you take a step back and look at it, David Ayer's directorial career reads like a series of attempts to do Training Day without Fuqua. Street Kings felt somewhere between an indirect spinoff or a straight-to-DVD sequel to Training Day. Even Bright, a movie about orc cop escorting an elf with a magic wand, takes a whole act two stop in the barrio for some "urban gangsta flava". Fury was very good, and very original compared to the rest of his work. And End Of Watch is also incredible, if nestled safely in Ayer's comfort zone.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Sept 22, 2021 15:18:45 GMT -5
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