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Post by polarbearpete on Jul 15, 2020 15:47:48 GMT -5
I think it’s an industry thing. AEW and NXT aren’t setting the world on fire either despite acclaim from the fanbase. A) Wrestling isn’t cool anymore B) Other methods of tv viewing/streaming are killing cable/Traditional viewing. This is the most important thing when having this conversation in 2020, in my opinion. Wrestling fans, perhaps more than any other "fandom" (due to having such good nostalgic feelings associated with the Monday Night Wars) tend to judge success and failure based primarily on Nielsen Ratings. But, truly, Nielsen Ratings are extraordinarily antiquated in 2020 to the point that they hardly even merit discussion. Yeah, RAW is a terrible wrestling show, and these numbers are alarming, but when you consider how many people very likely either: (1) DVRed the show; (2) are going to watch the show at their leisure later on Hulu and/or the USA app; or (3) will catch the segments they actually care about on YouTube, the core audience is still roughly what it always was. Back in 1998, if you wanted to keep up with the WWE you HAD to tune in on Mondays at 9 - you really had no other choice. Nowadays, literally anything and everything you could possibly want to watch is at your fingertips and the entertainment industry is super oversaturated. You simply cannot compare how things were in 1998 to now. It’s certainly tough to quantify how many people are watching (or at least semi-following along) when you take into account live on USA, DVR, Hulu, USA app, YouTube highlights, YouTube “illegal” uploads. Even myself, I’m not a Nielsen household but I DVR Raw and will watch it when I get a chance throughout the week. Same with Smackdown. With NXT, I’ll DVR it but usually end up watching on the Network. So I’m a die hard fan but wouldn’t even be counted in these ratings if I was a Nielsen household (though I may appear in the Live+7 ratings for Raw and SD).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 15:56:05 GMT -5
This is the most important thing when having this conversation in 2020, in my opinion. Wrestling fans, perhaps more than any other "fandom" (due to having such good nostalgic feelings associated with the Monday Night Wars) tend to judge success and failure based primarily on Nielsen Ratings. But, truly, Nielsen Ratings are extraordinarily antiquated in 2020 to the point that they hardly even merit discussion. Yeah, RAW is a terrible wrestling show, and these numbers are alarming, but when you consider how many people very likely either: (1) DVRed the show; (2) are going to watch the show at their leisure later on Hulu and/or the USA app; or (3) will catch the segments they actually care about on YouTube, the core audience is still roughly what it always was. Back in 1998, if you wanted to keep up with the WWE you HAD to tune in on Mondays at 9 - you really had no other choice. Nowadays, literally anything and everything you could possibly want to watch is at your fingertips and the entertainment industry is super oversaturated. You simply cannot compare how things were in 1998 to now. It’s certainly tough to quantify how many people are watching (or at least semi-following along) when you take into account live on USA, DVR, Hulu, USA app, YouTube highlights, YouTube “illegal” uploads. Even myself, I’m not a Nielsen household but I DVR Raw and will watch it when I get a chance throughout the week. Same with Smackdown. With NXT, I’ll DVR it but usually end up watching on the Network. So I’m a die hard fan but wouldn’t even be counted in these ratings if I was a Nielsen household (though I may appear in the Live+7 ratings for Raw and SD). Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and say that I enjoy the modern WWE product as a whole. I don't. But, there are certain angles or characters that I still find myself interested in. I work 50 hours a week, and really the last thing I want to do in my free time on a Monday night is sit there and watch a 3 hour, mostly inconsequential, wrestling show. But I will totally check out matches that I heard were good on Hulu/YouTube. At times, I'll DVR the show so that I can fast forward through the slog and only watch the stuff I care about. I think a huge percentage of the WWE's "fanbase" is the same as me and that's reflected in the much lower ratings. Back in 1998 if you wanted to see Stone Cold, you had to sit there and watch the show until he showed up. Things aren't really like that anymore. With the entertainment industry so on-demand, people just aren't going to sit and watch hours upon hours of wrestling programming on a weekly basis like they used to. (Incidentally, I'm not an industry expert or anything, but I would hazard a guess that this is why the 50+ demographic is WWE's best, ratings-wise).
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Post by Cyno on Jul 15, 2020 15:58:06 GMT -5
Nielsen is hilariously antiquated, and the only reason people still pay attention to it is because it still determines ad rates via the 18-49 demo.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 15, 2020 16:29:31 GMT -5
I love Asuka, she seems to be featured heavily and is viewed as one of the bright spots of the pandemic programming.
Yet I'd rather watch her buy and open packs of WWE cards on her YouTube channel than watch her on Raw.
That's just not right.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 15, 2020 16:31:21 GMT -5
Thats not good at all, its already what TNA was doing on average in 2009. Damn, wasn't this the number TNA got when Jesus Christ came back?
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 15, 2020 16:36:58 GMT -5
What else is there to try? I mean, they could go back to the sleaze, but the shareholders won't like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 16:43:02 GMT -5
I love Asuka, she seems to be featured heavily and is viewed as one of the bright spots of the pandemic programming. Yet I'd rather watch her buy and open packs of WWE cards on her YouTube channel than watch her on Raw. That's just not right. Seriously, WWE's ability to take performers I like and make me lose interest in them is incredible. I still enjoy watching Aleister Black wrestle, but he should be a goddamn star and nowadays when he's on I'm just like “¯\_(ツ)_/¯ mostly. And then there's how they booked Becky, one of my absolute all time favorites, after WM 35...
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Post by 3cheers4ramirez on Jul 15, 2020 17:38:06 GMT -5
Any comparisons to ratings of decades ago are fundamentally flawed I think.
TNA in 2009 did a 1.3 in the M18-49 demo. That's more than Raw, AEW and NXT this week combined. It's also well over double any other show on cable from Monday.
I don't know what WWE's ceiling is, but it's way closer to the numbers they get now than those they got a decade ago.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jul 15, 2020 18:11:50 GMT -5
What else is there to try? I mean, they could go back to the sleaze, but the shareholders won't like that. Plus the stuff from 20 years or go is painfully outdated and will be more likely to lead to boycotts and complaints than increasing the fan base at all. They have way too much time to book shows without it being redundant and they’re way too scared they’ll have the talent walk and become celebrities on their own if they become too popular. They’re in a shitty spot
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 18:13:36 GMT -5
I don't hate the guy... Infact I think he's a great performer in the ring... but I can't help but think Kevin Owens = Bad Ratings.
When he was Universal Champion, the ratings were low aswell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 0:01:40 GMT -5
I don't hate the guy... Infact I think he's a great performer in the ring... but I can't help but think Kevin Owens = Bad Ratings. When he was Universal Champion, the ratings were low aswell. Like I said, I never blame just one person for ratings dropping, but I think you can make a stronger argument for Seth being bad for ratings than KO (who's not around much anymore). I've always been a Seth fan, I think he's doing good work right now, but he still feels like the main star of the show and it's been said for years now that ratings usually drop when he's the main focus.
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Post by honsou on Jul 16, 2020 2:26:32 GMT -5
Nielsen is hilariously antiquated, and the only reason people still pay attention to it is because it still determines ad rates via the 18-49 demo. In a sense they are but they are the only reason why WWE is making a profit right now. The house show business was dying before COVID started and now its really dead. They basically killed their PPV business with the network so the only way they really make money is via the TV deals. If USA and Fox decided to not renew them WWE goes from its strongest financial situation to basically dead overnight
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jul 16, 2020 3:59:54 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. From the very little I do see, and keep up with, it's a depressing slog of a show.
Life right now is a depressing slog, so why not actually put on something fun and crazy and different?
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Post by BRAINFADE on Jul 16, 2020 11:18:30 GMT -5
What else is there to try? I mean, they could go back to the sleaze, but the shareholders won't like that. You know what could be a novel idea to try? Actually have a real go at making new stars, instead of A) keeping everybody at a certain level so that "The Brand" is the star, and B) bringing back the older stars and pushing them as more important than the current group of talent, ensuring that they never get over.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Jul 16, 2020 11:54:42 GMT -5
Nielsen is antiquated, but its ratings are what Fox pay WWE for. I can't see it shooting up much, even when they get crowds back. The product is freezing cold and even before Covid, everything was trending down.
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