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Post by moonpies88 on Jul 28, 2020 19:06:24 GMT -5
I never understood the Raven teaming with Dreamer angle
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Post by zero744 on Jul 28, 2020 19:52:36 GMT -5
Putting the title on someone they didn't intend to pay. So everyone?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 20:02:50 GMT -5
It probably didn't really hurt them that much in the long run, but it is really interesting to imagine how different wrestling history might've wound up if not for the Raven / Sandman crucifixion and the way it caused the stuff with Kurt Angle to fall through.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jul 28, 2020 21:09:28 GMT -5
I never understood the Raven teaming with Dreamer angle Its problem is it had no payoff. I really thought it would lead to a Sandman heel turn (something the character desperately needed), but when Heyman found out that Raven was gonna jump to WWF first chance he got he just lost all interest in booking it.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 29, 2020 6:17:43 GMT -5
I never understood the Raven teaming with Dreamer angle It made sense to me at the time... Raven/Dreamer was a great feud back in early ECW. Dreamer finally wins some gold and it’s due to the “surprise” return of his arch nemesis. As a fan at the time I enjoyed it. Not a great sign I don’t remember where it led, but I do lovingly remember Raven’s big return
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 6:21:38 GMT -5
Booking anyone with the inability to pay them is probably a bigger problem than any stupid match stipulations / title changes.
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Post by héad.casé on Jul 29, 2020 6:24:38 GMT -5
Crucifixion of Sandman by Raven. ECW fans were bloodthirsty but even they didn’t know what to think of that. It also lost them a chance to get Kurt Angle pretty much straight out of the Olympics as he was so offended by it that he told Heyman if his commentary appearance was aired with the crucifixion he would sue him.
Kurt Angle in ECW 1996 would’ve been so strange.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 29, 2020 6:45:07 GMT -5
Crucifixion of Sandman by Raven. ECW fans were bloodthirsty but even they didn’t know what to think of that. It also lost them a chance to get Kurt Angle pretty much straight out of the Olympics as he was so offended by it that he told Heyman if his commentary appearance was aired with the crucifixion he would sue him. Kurt Angle in ECW 1996 would’ve been so strange. I think if Kurt showed even slightly the aptitude in ECW that he later did in WWF he would be gone quickly. If he didn't, we wouldn't be talking about him now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 7:13:43 GMT -5
The "Crucifixion cost ECW Kurt Angle!" has become an urban legend, he was there because him and Shane Douglas had mutual friends and it was an easy payday close to where he lived to do some commentary and put over Taz, if he'd shown the slightest interest in actually wrestling then WWF/WCW/New Japan would have signed him.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Jul 29, 2020 8:17:27 GMT -5
The "Crucifixion cost ECW Kurt Angle!" has become an urban legend, he was there because him and Shane Douglas had mutual friends and it was an easy payday close to where he lived to do some commentary and put over Taz, if he'd shown the slightest interest in actually wrestling then WWF/WCW/New Japan would have signed him. 100% agreed. Lots of after the fact WWE historical spin in here.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 29, 2020 8:37:00 GMT -5
I never understood the Raven teaming with Dreamer angle It made sense to me at the time... Raven/Dreamer was a great feud back in early ECW. Dreamer finally wins some gold and it’s due to the “surprise” return of his arch nemesis. As a fan at the time I enjoyed it. Not a great sign I don’t remember where it led, but I do lovingly remember Raven’s big return Raven cut a promo going over their history and then said something along the lines of "Without me, you lost direction and purpose. You *need* me in your life, Tommy"
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Post by chronocross on Jul 29, 2020 9:41:38 GMT -5
putting the belt on Justin Credible I dont hate the guy but a bad choice Rhino or Lance Storm would have been better
I wouldn't have been opposed to Credible winning the TV title, but I just never bought him as the World Champion. Rhino seemed like he had more momentum to be the top heel in ECW in the Spring of 2000.
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Post by moonpies88 on Jul 30, 2020 8:57:03 GMT -5
I never understood the Raven teaming with Dreamer angle Its problem is it had no payoff. I really thought it would lead to a Sandman heel turn (something the character desperately needed), but when Heyman found out that Raven was gonna jump to WWF first chance he got he just lost all interest in booking it. Only way Sandman goes heel at that point in his career is if he stops the "enter sandman" entrance, and stops the drinking nd smoking
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 30, 2020 9:01:08 GMT -5
Its problem is it had no payoff. I really thought it would lead to a Sandman heel turn (something the character desperately needed), but when Heyman found out that Raven was gonna jump to WWF first chance he got he just lost all interest in booking it. Only way Sandman goes heel at that point in his career is if he stops the "enter sandman" entrance, and stops the drinking nd smoking So more like... www.youtube.com/watch?v=96stndsnkH0
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jul 30, 2020 9:21:00 GMT -5
Outside of stuff mentioned, they stuck with Shane Douglas too long when he was injured as world champion. Sure, it gave Taz an ax to grind, but it was still squandering the title. yeah, Shane Douglas holding the belt for what felt like decades didn't help. He was bad without it, worse with it and add to the fact now he can only cut promos til he looks like he's going to pass out from a salt overdose. Unwatchable in every imaginable way. God awful. Way too late by the time he dropped it too.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jul 30, 2020 11:09:56 GMT -5
Its problem is it had no payoff. I really thought it would lead to a Sandman heel turn (something the character desperately needed), but when Heyman found out that Raven was gonna jump to WWF first chance he got he just lost all interest in booking it. Only way Sandman goes heel at that point in his career is if he stops the "enter sandman" entrance, and stops the drinking nd smoking Eh, the character was really stale by this point. Yeah, they'd have to stop the elaborate "Enter Sandman" entrances, but otherwise I really feel he could've easily turned heel and kept mostly the same act simply by attacking fan favorites instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 13:33:27 GMT -5
Outside of stuff mentioned, they stuck with Shane Douglas too long when he was injured as world champion. Sure, it gave Taz an ax to grind, but it was still squandering the title. yeah, Shane Douglas holding the belt for what felt like decades didn't help. He was bad without it, worse with it and add to the fact now he can only cut promos til he looks like he's going to pass out from a salt overdose. Unwatchable in every imaginable way. God awful. Way too late by the time he dropped it too. Binge watching ECW back in the vhs days, (Other than Al Snow) I swear every single Shane Douglas match just brought every single event to a screeching halt of boredom
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 13:57:43 GMT -5
Only way Sandman goes heel at that point in his career is if he stops the "enter sandman" entrance, and stops the drinking nd smoking Eh, the character was really stale by this point. Yeah, they'd have to stop the elaborate "Enter Sandman" entrances, but otherwise I really feel he could've easily turned heel and kept mostly the same act simply by attacking fan favorites instead. Stale or not, there wasn't a babyface on the roster that was going to stop ECW fans cheering Sandman.
By 2000 I think an ECW fan buying a ticket just wanted to show up and see "their guys" doing "their routines" and taking away one of the best parts of the live show in Sandman's entrance would have just pissed them off.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 30, 2020 14:00:36 GMT -5
yeah, Shane Douglas holding the belt for what felt like decades didn't help. He was bad without it, worse with it and add to the fact now he can only cut promos til he looks like he's going to pass out from a salt overdose. Unwatchable in every imaginable way. God awful. Way too late by the time he dropped it too. Binge watching ECW back in the vhs days, (Other than Al Snow) I swear every single Shane Douglas match just brought every single event to a screeching halt of boredom Gah that TV title match at the first Barely Legal...
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Post by MrElijah on Jul 30, 2020 16:05:43 GMT -5
Binge watching ECW back in the vhs days, (Other than Al Snow) I swear every single Shane Douglas match just brought every single event to a screeching halt of boredom Gah that TV title match at the first Barely Legal... How about a 40+ Minute 4 way Dance between Shane, Pitbull #2, 2 Cold Scorpio and Chris Jericho?
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