Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 15, 2020 20:46:06 GMT -5
Finally getting around to Dynamite this week 9 mins for a Womens title match on an anniversary show is unacceptable At the same time, the match itself wasn't incredibly stable by the end. I don't know if Shida and Swole would have been able to put on a clinic I really think the heat and humidity does effect some wrestlers going longer matches and their chemistry. I'm not saying it didn't deserve more time or couldn't have gotten more time, but I thought it went a fine amount of time, it felt longer than 9 minutes for me and as others have said not every match needs to go long That being said, obviously, the girls need to carve out more time and need more time carved out for them on the main show. That or that second show needs to come soon.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 245,103
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 15, 2020 20:52:36 GMT -5
I'll say it again as negative and down people are on this division lately, I still think they have one of the best young pipeline of girls in wrestling if they develop it right
So many girls that haven't even been in wrestling 2 years, so many that are early twenties or even younger, that's a plus, that's especially a plus if they develop and stick with them
Kenzie Paige, Elayna Black if signed, Cassandra Golden, Anna Jay, Abadon, Skyler Moore, Dani Jordyn, Red Velvet, KiLyn King, Tay Conti
There is so much youth and upside within this division, even if it needs work now, I really am excited for the future at the very least. The thing they have to work on is setting up the future for success. AEW listens and have proven to listen, they definitely need to here. They have a core fanbase that isn't going anywhere, they can bet more on the girls and you can work out the division more and more from there.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,836
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Post by markymark on Oct 15, 2020 20:55:58 GMT -5
Finally getting around to Dynamite this week 9 mins for a Womens title match on an anniversary show is unacceptable At the same time, the match itself wasn't incredibly stable by the end. I don't know if Shida and Swole would have been able to put on a clinic I really think the heat and humidity does effect some wrestlers going longer matches and their chemistry. I'm not saying it didn't deserve more time or couldn't have gotten more time, but I thought it went a fine amount of time, it felt longer than 9 minutes for me and as others have said not every match needs to go long That being said, obviously, the girls need to carve out more time and need more time carved out for them on the main show. That or that second show needs to come soon. Idk if its just me but Shida hasnt been really the same since the Penelope match, like the Jacksonville weather is getting the better of her, She had the good match vs Rosa but Rosa can have a good match with anyone. When she tried to do the kipup I thought for a moment that her knee was injured.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Oct 15, 2020 21:00:18 GMT -5
At the same time, the match itself wasn't incredibly stable by the end. I don't know if Shida and Swole would have been able to put on a clinic I really think the heat and humidity does effect some wrestlers going longer matches and their chemistry. I'm not saying it didn't deserve more time or couldn't have gotten more time, but I thought it went a fine amount of time, it felt longer than 9 minutes for me and as others have said not every match needs to go long That being said, obviously, the girls need to carve out more time and need more time carved out for them on the main show. That or that second show needs to come soon. Idk if its just me but Shida hasnt been really the same since the Penelope match, like the Jacksonville weather is getting the better of her, She had the good match vs Rosa but Rosa can have a good match with anyone. When she tried to do the kipup I thought for a moment that her knee was injured. I can see that, too. The Rosa match was also a slow burn for most of it, so it was a very different beast than the kind of tight sprints that Shida was knocking out of the park early on.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2020 21:01:10 GMT -5
Finally getting around to Dynamite this week 9 mins for a Womens title match on an anniversary show is unacceptable At the same time, the match itself wasn't incredibly stable by the end. I don't know if Shida and Swole would have been able to put on a clinic I really think the heat and humidity does effect some wrestlers going longer matches and their chemistry. I'm not saying it didn't deserve more time or couldn't have gotten more time, but I thought it went a fine amount of time, it felt longer than 9 minutes for me and as others have said not every match needs to go long That being said, obviously, the girls need to carve out more time and need more time carved out for them on the main show. That or that second show needs to come soon. Not every match needs to go long but the point is this was a chance to do so. It's not about putting on a clinic, it is about the trust you have in them to say take your time and let's see what you can do. If they fail so be it, but give them the chance to sink or swim and not have to worry about if they sink, well it is all going down the tub And it is not just match time but time to show off personality in general. Promos for others not named Britt Baker is needed. We don't know a damn thing about Shida since she became champ except she dresses like Tifa. Even on PPV where you get their best outings, their placements are bad on the card. Nyla Rose vs Statlander is put on after Omega/Page vs Bucks. Shida/Nyla at DoN is put on after Ford/Statlander and Dustin/Spears. Keep in mind Ford/Statlander was put on after Cody/Archer. And the last PPV (All Out) Shida/Rosa went on after Sammy/Matt which was supposed to be a crazy match that ended up being a mess. In AEW's 4 PPVs since the womens title has been introduced, their title matches have gone 6th or 7th on the card. These are obvious thing they can change
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 15, 2020 21:03:40 GMT -5
At the same time, the match itself wasn't incredibly stable by the end. I don't know if Shida and Swole would have been able to put on a clinic I really think the heat and humidity does effect some wrestlers going longer matches and their chemistry. I'm not saying it didn't deserve more time or couldn't have gotten more time, but I thought it went a fine amount of time, it felt longer than 9 minutes for me and as others have said not every match needs to go long That being said, obviously, the girls need to carve out more time and need more time carved out for them on the main show. That or that second show needs to come soon. Idk if its just me but Shida hasnt been really the same since the Penelope match, like the Jacksonville weather is getting the better of her, She had the good match vs Rosa but Rosa can have a good match with anyone. When she tried to do the kipup I thought for a moment that her knee was injured. I agree with you. And I honestly wonder if that's why Shida isn't being used a ton. We have seen her sloppy in multiple matches in Jacksonville and the opponent can be blamed too but it's odd for Shida to work wonky matches, when she was putting it down and holding it down at the Georgia tapings... but those were indoor air conditioned tapings. Humidity is a factor and it can play a factor. Shida has been put in quick matches, tag matches, and the longer matches she has had like Swole or Diamante just haven't clicked. Her best match in Jacksonville was Rosa, and the Nyla one was good too but it was also a lot of brawling which may have helped. This is all speculation and this isn't me absolving AEW of criticism or saying they shouldn't work around what's going on, but I have noticed this stuff with Shida in Jacksonville that correlates to the heat effecting her maybe more than others.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,836
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Post by markymark on Oct 16, 2020 7:28:03 GMT -5
Well thats kinda a good start for their feud lol.
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
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Post by Derk! on Oct 16, 2020 7:31:48 GMT -5
They have a decent roster now, but it doesn't mean jack if they don't do anything with them.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 245,103
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 16, 2020 7:40:35 GMT -5
Well thats kinda a good start for their feud lol. Even if this happens on DARK I'm fine with it, the women need to start interacting and feuding with one another and starting midcard angles. I know we wanna build up the girls records and all but the thing that's gonna establish them, win or loss at this point, is feuds I really want Britt Baker to fight Abadon because they could play off each other so well for example.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 16, 2020 7:48:45 GMT -5
Well thats kinda a good start for their feud lol. I don't like the you f*** people to get ahead as a feud starter but that Hussy line at the end had me howling
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 8:10:50 GMT -5
Not every match needs to go long but it'd be nice if there was the slightest bit of a chance that any match would. AEW constantly finds the time to give other matches 15, 20 minutes week after week after week but with the women it absolutely never happens.
The only time in recent memory it did was Shida / Rosa and I guarantee that only happened because they needed to fill time after Matt / Sammy was cut short.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 16, 2020 8:22:37 GMT -5
Not every match needs to go long but it'd be nice if there was the slightest bit of a chance that any match would. AEW constantly finds the time to give other matches 15, 20 minutes week after week after week but with the women it absolutely never happens. The only time in recent memory it did was Shida / Rosa and I guarantee that only happened because they needed to fill time after Matt / Sammy was cut short. As I noted earlier, the 4 women’s title matches on PPV have all gone over 15 mins, I think only Statlander/Nyla went 12 mins However, these matches are 6 or 7th in the card. Essentially “dead spots” either off a banger match, before the AEW title match or off a lame segment Getting time on PPV is fine, but they also still need time on TV
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Oct 16, 2020 8:23:59 GMT -5
They have a decent roster now, but it doesn't mean jack if they don't do anything with them. Exactly, having a good division isn't just about how good the wrestlers are, it's also about how well it's handled. That's why most people think that Impact & NXT have better women's divisions then Raw & SD...they all have very good wrestlers in said divisions, but the former 2 handle & book their divisions better.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,836
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Post by markymark on Oct 16, 2020 9:33:31 GMT -5
Good news: Shida vs Swole increased the viewership by 20K, besides Britt segment doing well
Bad news: Shida vs Swole had the lowest demo of the night
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 10:14:05 GMT -5
They have a decent roster now, but it doesn't mean jack if they don't do anything with them. Exactly, having a good division isn't just about how good the wrestlers are, it's also about how well it's handled. That's why most people think that Impact & NXT have better women's divisions then Raw & SD...they all have very good wrestlers in said divisions, but the former 2 handle & book their divisions better. The main roster shows are top heavy but then they have jobbed out most the rest of the roster for anyone to care. As for talent they have Raw seriously had a tag match between Lana/Nattie and Dana/Mandy, while Mandy has improved a lot, her, Lana, and Brooke have no buisness being featured on a main shows, when theres so much great talent just sitting in NXT. They would have fit in prefectly during the diva championship days, but wrestling has evolved past that. I am legit scared every time Dana Brooke is in the ring. As for Nattie she's probably the most stale wrestler in the entire company.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Oct 16, 2020 14:25:11 GMT -5
Exactly, having a good division isn't just about how good the wrestlers are, it's also about how well it's handled. That's why most people think that Impact & NXT have better women's divisions then Raw & SD...they all have very good wrestlers in said divisions, but the former 2 handle & book their divisions better. The main roster shows are top heavy but then they have jobbed out most the rest of the roster for anyone to care. As for talent they have Raw seriously had a tag match between Lana/Nattie and Dana/Mandy, while Mandy has improved a lot, her, Lana, and Brooke have no buisness being featured on a main shows, when theres so much great talent just sitting in NXT. They would have fit in prefectly during the diva championship days, but wrestling has evolved past that. I am legit scared every time Dana Brooke is in the ring. As for Nattie she's probably the most stale wrestler in the entire company. I would legit say RAW's woman division is worse than AEW's
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Oct 16, 2020 14:58:15 GMT -5
So...something that I think is an interesting point of discussion that I think has to do with both the agent work and the hiring practices for the women's wrestling - with the dreaded Meltzer/Alvarez references:
Alvarez and Meltzer have both chimed in on the fact that the women's matches in AEW are...well, laid out like Kenny Omega matches. The pacing, the escalation of moves, the complexity, etc. And they've noted that Penelope Ford has excelled in this environment, but that others - noting Big Swole - suffer from it, with Alvarez noting that they'd probably get a better match if they just did a simpler match with good storytelling.
Meltzer had a...well, very dismissive overall take that I think is sadly accurate to Tony Khan's thought process: they don't want good TV right now, they want excellent TV. In this view, most of the women's wrestlers that they could hire to spice up the division are about the talent level of Frankie Kazarian, and that Kazarian is struggling to even get on TV right now. (He then showed that he is, in fact, Meltzer by saying that anyone complaining isn't serious because if they were, they'd go watch Stardom. Which is a truly wretched take all around, gotta say.)
And...yeah, I see it. Even before Britt's heel turn, a lot of us were in agreement that she looked like she would benefit if she just slowed down a little bit. And honestly, aside from like...Abadon vs. Shida on Dark, and the bloody Shida vs. Britt match...the major women's matches have generally been these spectacular Japanese style epics, in contrast to some of the other styles that are present elsewhere on the show (like Cody's NWA-with-modern-spots deal, Colt Cabana and previously Jimmy Havoc with British grappling, Orange's comedy-until-it's-lucha routine, Eddie Kingston being full-on King's Road).
That's kind of against the grain of what's been big on the indies with women. Watch a Shimmer show or some Beyond matches, and you're less likely to see spectacular sprints than you are to see good fundamentals and solid character-based storytelling. Some of the bigger names on the indies are wrestlers with great character work - Priscilla Kelly, for example, is one of the crispest and smoothest wrestlers out there, but her moveset is very restrained and her matches are generally built around one of her outrageous lewd routines. And frankly - not only would that slower and more character-based approach be better suited to most of the women out there on the indies, it would also better get over the skills and characters of the wrestlers they have.
Hell, the women's tag tournament was a breath of fresh air because it was much more relaxed and character-based until the finals (which were an earned climax). Big Swole would be putting on better TV if she were doing stuff like dragging her tag partner back for a tag because she was getting carried away, than trying to jam all of her best spots into an eight-minute match where the only storytelling is escalation. This also has the effect of all but removing a quarter of the women from active participation - Allie looks very out of place in comparison to everyone else, partly because everything is built around a style that doesn't suit her and there isn't really room for her to be a character with the kind of booking we've gotten so far.
Basically? Less Shida vs. Ford and Riho vs. Nyla, more Shida vs. Abadon and Britt vs. Swole in the presentation. They need to focus more on ECW-style booking to strengths and less on trying to get a cool spotfest out of wrestlers who don't specialize in those.
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Post by darbus alan on Oct 16, 2020 15:05:25 GMT -5
It might be time to get Kenny away from being the main agent in laying out these matches and have him stick to the joshi once that gets started up again when travel becomes less of an issue, whenever that is. Get a more experienced hand in American and European-style women's wrestling like Madusa or even Serena Deeb as the main producer for these matches.
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Post by darbus alan on Oct 16, 2020 15:11:07 GMT -5
They don't need to hire more women. They need to use the women they already have before they can think about expanding their roster. Otherwise, that's more people warming the benches instead of being used and it becomes a WWE situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 15:19:35 GMT -5
They don't need to hire more women. They need to use the women they already have before they can think about expanding their roster. Otherwise, that's more people warming the benches instead of being used and it becomes a WWE situation. Cabana, Hardy, FTR, Lee, Cage, Starks, Kingston, Miro all signed this year. Half of guys main evented. When Deeb and Conti are your biggest free agent signings, you have to invest more into now than hoping for later.
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