Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Nov 6, 2020 11:55:57 GMT -5
She says her dream is joining AEW, though hopefully JR doesnt crap on her by the time it happens. On the one hand, f*** yes! On the other, JR would be abysmal I think JR should be replaced by Veda Scott for every women's match.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 6, 2020 14:41:32 GMT -5
On the one hand, f*** yes! On the other, JR would be abysmal I think JR should be replaced by Veda Scott for every women's match.Edited to reflect my personal biases.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Celgress on Nov 6, 2020 15:10:20 GMT -5
They've been working towards this with DARK recaps being shown on Dynamite with certain talents, it's just a matter of more crossover. The more they promote DARK as a big deal, the more people will watch it or go out of their way to watch specific moments of it. Right, just mainly have been male storyline stuff that shows up usually. Just saying it could be used on stuff not Spears/Sky. (sorry, just the most meh feud I can think of that could be used to get more women over instead.) No need to apologize. IMHO, Spears is one of the most meh talents AEW has. I'm sorry, but the guy does nothing for me. His generic serious wrestler persona is beyond bland. He needs a new gimmick ASAP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2020 15:29:13 GMT -5
"Not everything has to be war and peace...."
Except for your matches Cody. This the first ppv program he's had since the company started that isnt some over the top drama fest.
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Celgress
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Post by Celgress on Nov 6, 2020 16:41:00 GMT -5
"Not everything has to be war and peace...." Except for your matches Cody. This the first ppv program he's had since the company started that isnt some over the top drama fest. Very true, all hail Super Cody The Magnificent the Face of AEW (just ask him, he'll tell you so)!
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 6, 2020 16:56:18 GMT -5
"Not everything has to be war and peace...." Except for your matches Cody. This the first ppv program he's had since the company started that isnt some over the top drama fest. Very true, all hail Super Cody The Magnificent the Face of AEW (just ask him, he'll tell you so)! I really think Cody is far from "Super". This dude lost some of the biggest matches of his AEW career so far. He lost to Jericho and can't challenge for the world title, he lost to MJF in the blood feud, Brodie Lee kicked his ass. He was unable to beat Darby the first time, or Orange Cassidy in a clean manner twice. Like Cody has to win big ones in grand fashion sometimes or he's simply never going to be taken seriously.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2020 18:43:38 GMT -5
Very true, all hail Super Cody The Magnificent the Face of AEW (just ask him, he'll tell you so)! I really think Cody is far from "Super". This dude lost some of the biggest matches of his AEW career so far. He lost to Jericho and can't challenge for the world title, he lost to MJF in the blood feud, Brodie Lee kicked his ass. He was unable to beat Darby the first time, or Orange Cassidy in a clean manner twice. Like Cody has to win big ones in grand fashion sometimes or he's simply never going to be taken seriously. It’s a not a good term. But it’s really more about the build up than the results... which is why the war and peace remark is bit eye rolling.... - I need to win the NWA Championship! - I need to fight my brother! - I need to team with my brother! - A long time friend turned on me and hit me in the head with a chair! - If I don’t win the AEW title I will never challenge for it again!! - A new friend turned on me and I really need to fight him! But I have to be whipped and fight his bodyguard in a cage first! - I need to win this new title or I have nothing! Also this monster is calling me out! But I guess we will fight in the finals! - Watch me job out up an coming talent for two months straight! The only guy it helped get over was Kingston! - I’m fighting Jack Swagger and we need a press conference for some reason! - I got my ass kicked so I could tape a crappy tv show I need my belt back and we’re doing in it in a dog collar match! - I’ll fight Darby I guess... even though I’ve already beaten him three times and but it guess maybe it’s time for him to a big win after a year and a half and he’s not as hot as he once was.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 6, 2020 20:02:43 GMT -5
"Not everything has to be war and peace...." Except for your matches Cody. This the first ppv program he's had since the company started that isnt some over the top drama fest. Here is the main thing, Cody will probably argue his week to week matches aren't war and peace which is debatable However, you can argue all that for TV matches but I guarantee you he wouldn't enter a PPV match without a build like they are doing with Shida/Nyla Cody's gimmick is southern "don't you miss stories in wrestling" wrestler. Both Cody and Shida did the open challenge gimmick but look how she was treated. Cody essentially created a two program match between him and OC that is leading to him and Darby. Shida has not got that same care and attention
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 6, 2020 22:42:33 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking about how nonplussed I am that Allysin Kay, just like almost every woman they bring in from the American indies, is almost assuredly debuting with a loss. It's been a pattern, that very few women are actually coming in touted as something special - everyone is getting the tryout/prospect treatment. This isn't bad necessarily, as seen with Abadon and Anna Jay; and they've shown some carefulness when it comes to especially promising newcomers (see: Leyla Hirsch having only taken pins to champions).
But like...it suggests an attitude that's not doing anyone any favors. Looking back at the Shida open challenge, where it seems nobody was "worthy" of the damn title shot despite it being an open challenge. Diamante had to earn a match with Shida, basically, and it didn't even end up being a title match - online promotion even flipped once or twice trying to decide if it was or not, and the commentators didn't seem 100% sure in either direction. Then, a bit later, Heather Monroe - a very solid indy wrestler with a fair bit of personality - gets the enhancement treatment instead of coming in for the open challenge that was ongoing.
It's like they've looked at the indy scene and, instead of wondering who might be able to fill interesting story roles or make good angles or provide good opponents for their current roster, just flatly decided that no woman around is good enough unless she proves herself. Hence everyone just pops in for a tryout without any direction, gets signed if she's sufficiently impressive, then proceeds to not figure into any kind of plan after that.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 6, 2020 23:48:55 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking about how nonplussed I am that Allysin Kay, just like almost every woman they bring in from the American indies, is almost assuredly debuting with a loss. It's been a pattern, that very few women are actually coming in touted as something special - everyone is getting the tryout/prospect treatment. This isn't bad necessarily, as seen with Abadon and Anna Jay; and they've shown some carefulness when it comes to especially promising newcomers (see: Leyla Hirsch having only taken pins to champions). But like...it suggests an attitude that's not doing anyone any favors. Looking back at the Shida open challenge, where it seems nobody was "worthy" of the damn title shot despite it being an open challenge. Diamante had to earn a match with Shida, basically, and it didn't even end up being a title match - online promotion even flipped once or twice trying to decide if it was or not, and the commentators didn't seem 100% sure in either direction. Then, a bit later, Heather Monroe - a very solid indy wrestler with a fair bit of personality - gets the enhancement treatment instead of coming in for the open challenge that was ongoing. It's like they've looked at the indy scene and, instead of wondering who might be able to fill interesting story roles or make good angles or provide good opponents for their current roster, just flatly decided that no woman around is good enough unless she proves herself. Hence everyone just pops in for a tryout without any direction, gets signed if she's sufficiently impressive, then proceeds to not figure into any kind of plan after that. In Kay's case, it's a title match though, it's about as good a match you can get for a debut. Even if it ends in a loss it's still a title match a lot of eyes will be on. It would be as you said though, how they'd book her after, if signed, but Kay's someone that will be unable to be ignored, she's an ace, she's not some promising Indie talent, she is a pillar.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 6, 2020 23:55:54 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking about how nonplussed I am that Allysin Kay, just like almost every woman they bring in from the American indies, is almost assuredly debuting with a loss. It's been a pattern, that very few women are actually coming in touted as something special - everyone is getting the tryout/prospect treatment. This isn't bad necessarily, as seen with Abadon and Anna Jay; and they've shown some carefulness when it comes to especially promising newcomers (see: Leyla Hirsch having only taken pins to champions). But like...it suggests an attitude that's not doing anyone any favors. Looking back at the Shida open challenge, where it seems nobody was "worthy" of the damn title shot despite it being an open challenge. Diamante had to earn a match with Shida, basically, and it didn't even end up being a title match - online promotion even flipped once or twice trying to decide if it was or not, and the commentators didn't seem 100% sure in either direction. Then, a bit later, Heather Monroe - a very solid indy wrestler with a fair bit of personality - gets the enhancement treatment instead of coming in for the open challenge that was ongoing. It's like they've looked at the indy scene and, instead of wondering who might be able to fill interesting story roles or make good angles or provide good opponents for their current roster, just flatly decided that no woman around is good enough unless she proves herself. Hence everyone just pops in for a tryout without any direction, gets signed if she's sufficiently impressive, then proceeds to not figure into any kind of plan after that. In Kay's case, it's a title match though, it's about as good a match you can get for a debut. Even if it ends in a loss it's still a title match a lot of eyes will be on. It would be as you said though, how they'd book her after, if signed, but Kay's someone that will be unable to be ignored, she's an ace, she's not some promising Indie talent, she is a pillar. And yet, she's getting the tryout treatment. Like, Kay is someone who could be brought in with promos, by just showing up and wrecking people - someone who could easily be built to a title match instead of just showing up for it, and who could have been a strong presence for the show in the leadup. Instead, she's going to either 1. lose before she has been built in AEW, or 2. win a title before she has been built in AEW. Neither option is really the best way to debut a top talent, and I think it's showing the problems with the current tryout model. EDIT: Yeah, it's worked out for Ricky Starks and Eddie Kingston, but the sheer quality of promo each of them got to cut is something that I seriously doubt Kay is going to get. And if you want to build up talent who doesn't have that ability from the get-go, a gentle touch would be more effective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2020 23:59:33 GMT -5
Wouldve agreed if only Shida Open Challenge wasnt completely lazy executed. Wrestling doesn't need to be epic and complex all the time. Regardless, you can't just have your #1 contender be off your main program for months besides a tag tournament (which was online exclusive) and a random beatdown segment, then suddenly she has a title shot. I know WWE and other promotions are guilty of this, particularly with wrestlers who have looked awful in recent months being given opportunities, but to someone who was essentially a ghost? Conversely, you gave all this time to one woman, and she isn't the one who gets the title shot? Sure, Britt Baker ain't my cup of tea, but Wrestling 101 often states that devoting that much real estate on your programming has to go somewhere on your show. I know fans can be a pain in the ass, but when you keep putting them in the same piss break slot and feature the same three or four women every stinking week, our complaining is somewhat justified.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 7, 2020 3:22:32 GMT -5
Wouldve agreed if only Shida Open Challenge wasnt completely lazy executed. No your build doesn't have to be War and Peace Unless you are two pretty white men tag champions who are going to turn on each other in like a year Or two guys who keep injuring each other so badly the promotion hired new doctors But yeah doesn't need to be War and Peace More than one promo and any push is evidently War and Peace Shut the f*** up, Cody.
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City Duck
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Post by City Duck on Nov 7, 2020 9:44:27 GMT -5
Lmao I don't wanna hear about "not everything has to be war and peace" from the creators of the mandatory 20 minute FTR match.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 7, 2020 10:30:34 GMT -5
So far as Cody’s approach to his angles, I’m fine with them because they are fairly simpler than what’s been expected in the wrestling world as of late and thus easier to get into. Problem is, the AEW women aren’t even getting simple angles, it’s just “here’s a women’s match this week, see? We got this!” No you don’t, not quite yet.
This is what I meant by “2020 Chyna Booking”, the idea that just throwing women out there with A) either noticeably less buildup than the dudes is enough, or B) treating women’s wrestling like an uncanny special attraction, which it isn’t anymore to most of the current audience. It’s a dated late 90s take on Girl Power.
IMO, they need to try and hit 2-3 women’s matches and three women’s promos each Dynamite if they wanna keep up with NXT and Impact’s Knockouts (who get to show a ton of character development and their charisma, especially recently).
Where’s the sense of adventure with AEW’s women? They need the ladies’ Dinner Debonair, their answer to Stadium Stampede and the Mimosa Pool. They’re giving the dudes the lions share of the crazy, cool stuff. It’s the “Girls Locker Room vs. Boys Locker Room” meme come to life.
One squash match a week and Brandi talking to the camera about wanting to feel more comfortable isn’t enough to really light this division ablaze. They gotta get crazier.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 7, 2020 10:36:11 GMT -5
Right on, Clash.
The women aren't even getting 'Wa', never mind 'War and Peace.'
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Nov 7, 2020 10:42:31 GMT -5
Exactly. We're not even asking for War and Peace stories, we're looking for something more than a Calvin and Hobbs comic strip. If the women's division is "equal" to the rest, then they need to have equal presentation.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 7, 2020 10:45:28 GMT -5
Right on, Clash. The women aren't even getting 'Wa', never mind 'War and Peace.' Speaking of Wa, like if they wanna do game references all the time, why can’t Bates do some WaLuigi cosplay? Do a Smash themed match, dress up Swole like Fox McCloud. They wanna call up Kay? Let’s think of something nuts, have her fight Abadon in the Daily’s basement. I’d like more out-there ideas like that with the girls.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 7, 2020 10:47:22 GMT -5
So far as Cody’s approach to his angles, I’m fine with them because they are fairly simpler than what’s been expected in the wrestling world as of late and thus easier to get into. Problem is, the AEW women aren’t even getting simple angles, it’s just “here’s a women’s match this week, see? We got this!” No you don’t, not quite yet. This is what I meant by “2020 Chyna Booking”, the idea that just throwing women out there with A) either noticeably less buildup than the dudes is enough, or B) treating women’s wrestling like an uncanny special attraction, which it isn’t anymore to most of the current audience. It’s a dated late 90s take on Girl Power. IMO, they need to try and hit 2-3 women’s matches and three women’s promos each Dynamite if they wanna keep up with NXT and Impact’s Knockouts (who get to show a ton of character development and their charisma, especially recently). Where’s the sense of adventure with AEW’s women? They need the ladies’ Dinner Debonair, their answer to Stadium Stampede and the Mimosa Pool. They’re giving the dudes the lions share of the crazy, cool stuff. It’s the “Girls Locker Room vs. Boys Locker Room” meme come to life. One squash match a week and Brandi talking to the camera about wanting to feel more comfortable isn’t enough to really light this division ablaze. They gotta get crazier. The woman need a minimum of 3 segments a week which I will be generous and include matches NXT at a minimum has two women matches and promo time dedicated to the show. This week had Dakota/Ember, Shotzi/Storm with a new angle involving Candice and a hype video for Io/Rhea finally clashing for the NXT womens title. Impact does even more with their women cause they have multiple segments. The tag titles is out there, you got the womens title in general and women will involve themselves with the "mens titles". Neither show is afraid to end their main events with the women Meanwhile in AEW, you have none of that. As you said where is the sense of adventure for the women. A good 6-8 min womens match isn't a draw. We are way passed that. Where is your significant angles that draws the viewer. For as tired as Bayley/Sasha will they, won't they situation was in this 3 year long feud, the payoff in HIAC delivered
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 7, 2020 10:54:01 GMT -5
So far as Cody’s approach to his angles, I’m fine with them because they are fairly simpler than what’s been expected in the wrestling world as of late and thus easier to get into. Problem is, the AEW women aren’t even getting simple angles, it’s just “here’s a women’s match this week, see? We got this!” No you don’t, not quite yet. This is what I meant by “2020 Chyna Booking”, the idea that just throwing women out there with A) either noticeably less buildup than the dudes is enough, or B) treating women’s wrestling like an uncanny special attraction, which it isn’t anymore to most of the current audience. It’s a dated late 90s take on Girl Power. IMO, they need to try and hit 2-3 women’s matches and three women’s promos each Dynamite if they wanna keep up with NXT and Impact’s Knockouts (who get to show a ton of character development and their charisma, especially recently). Where’s the sense of adventure with AEW’s women? They need the ladies’ Dinner Debonair, their answer to Stadium Stampede and the Mimosa Pool. They’re giving the dudes the lions share of the crazy, cool stuff. It’s the “Girls Locker Room vs. Boys Locker Room” meme come to life. One squash match a week and Brandi talking to the camera about wanting to feel more comfortable isn’t enough to really light this division ablaze. They gotta get crazier. The woman need a minimum of 3 segments a week which I will be generous and include matches NXT at a minimum has two women matches and promo time dedicated to the show. This week had Dakota/Ember, Shotzi/Storm with a new angle involving Candice and a hype video for Io/Rhea finally clashing for the NXT womens title. Impact does even more with their women cause they have multiple segments. The tag titles is out there, you got the womens title in general and women will involve themselves with the "mens titles". Neither show is afraid to end their main events with the women Meanwhile in AEW, you have none of that. As you said where is the sense of adventure for the women. A good 6-8 min womens match isn't a draw. We are way passed that. Where is your significant angles that draws the viewer. For as tired as Bayley/Sasha will they, won't they situation was in this 3 year long feud, the payoff in HIAC delivered It is painfully obvious that AEW don't see women as equal - when WWE features women more than you do, you are f***ing up bad. Even a while back, NXT gave some female signings like Asuka and Ember and even Nia star treatment before they debuted in a way AEW never bothers with
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