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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 7, 2020 13:48:56 GMT -5
Right now my one primary hangup is how the women aren’t getting the zanier and more exciting projects the fellas are, like Dinner Debonair and the Stadium match. I won’t fault them for issues they’re genuinely trying to work around, like having to make adjustments for COVID and travel restrictions, or the talent being greener than NXT’s women on average. But there are clear differences in how the two divisions are currently being written, in terms of ambition. They did a match in a dentist office. Not zany enough for you? Since this is the only thread people will participate in for women’s wrestling in AEW (ironic, innit?) can someone tell me exactly why they need to do better for the women’s division? They ideally don’t wanna give the impression that one division is more dynamic than the other. So mostly in the sense of fairness, really, but personally it also for me simply boils down to “more interesting wrestling is good”. |
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 7, 2020 14:09:39 GMT -5
Are we still pushing this rhetoric that Britt is the only one who gets screentime? And that the girls haven't been getting really nice ratings even in Quarter 7 the last like month or so? Britt hasn't been the only one drawing, what is that even? Yeah Baker's one of the top draws and one of the top featured, but does this thread have to find literally any reason to be pessimistic about the division? They're finally featuring the girls more and giving them more promo time and exposure with multiple storylines going on per week now in some facet. Britt and Leyla Hirsch did a great number for them as did the Rosa beatdown post match. Yet we're still finding reasons to bitch? I get we wanna see the girls do better, but we really need to stop forcing some reason to be angry about the girls. It's getting to the point where it feels like some people aren't ever gonna be satisfied and it's getting a tad eye-rolling. As the person who started this thread and someone who doesn't even watch much AEW anymore maybe this thread should be locked if it's getting too negative. I just made a post about the women's division being below par. I wasn't expecting it to be a thing months later.That said, I've been around this board and witnessed you and many of us complaining week after week about the same things for years. People are allowed to criticize things. Just because you're a big AEW fan doesn't mean you have to take any negative comments about the company personally and call it bitching and eye-roll worthy. I feel like we had this same conversation ages ago. It's like you think if you personally don't like something like a Roman Reigns or a Charlotte then it's okay to bash it over and over again but if you do like something then suddenly you're like hey, take it easy guys, why all the negativity?! People can like or dislike something as much as they want and shouldn't be judged for it if they're not breaking any rules. Happy 71 pages  |
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Post by flowercity on Dec 7, 2020 14:11:09 GMT -5
They did a match in a dentist office. Not zany enough for you? Since this is the only thread people will participate in for women’s wrestling in AEW (ironic, innit?) can someone tell me exactly why they need to do better for the women’s division? The Dentist match is a step in the right direction, along with other Britt material. It just needs to be more widespread like the men. It's not just Inner Circle doing innovative stuff for instance. Personally, I think NXT shows why it would be in the best interest for AEW to do better with their women's division. It can help the overall product draw, it provides more opportunities for the women to grow as workers, and if the other divisions aren't doing as well, it is something to fall back on. It can help the product draw? In what way? They should copy NXT who is continuously getting crushed in ratings, and even more so in women viewership? The irony that everyone in here keeps all women story lines/angles to one thread while complaining about the women only being in Q7 is truly remarkable. |
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 7, 2020 14:18:22 GMT -5
The show having a distinct dip in its overall quality every week that is directly correlated to the gender of the participants is bad television.
Big Swole coming out of a months-long feud, having gotten a substantial PPV win (that was only on PPV because fans complained even though it was an angle that got TV time for months on end), and then getting a title match with so little promotion and hype that it was practically self-parody...is also bad television.
Hikaru Shida going long stretches without clear challengers or angles is bad television, especially when a potentially worthwhile angle (Nyla and Vickie demanding a title shot) ends up illogical because it was treated like an afterthought. (Seriously! Vickie complained that AEW wasn't granting Nyla the title match, but it turns out all she had to do was just...ask Shida, and Shida had zero objections? What kind of angle is that? What's the conflict? Why did we have to wait months after the Vickie/Nyla pairing started up in order to get...that?)
Serena Deeb not having any kind of personality or gimmick before suddenly being a champion that we are meant to be invested in and impressed by is bad television.
Good wrestlers and fun acts like Hikaru Shida, Britt Baker, Big Swole, and Nyla Rose having nothing to work with for months at a time is bad television. The fact that Nyla Rose outright disappeared from television for ages, having nothing whatsoever to do between "gets a manager to up her game" and "gets a title match because someone got around to asking the champion" is ridiculous given that she is a solid wrestler and good promo, and who had a new character dynamic to get over during that time period.
The main reason discussion got so centralized to this thread is because until three weeks ago, the overwhelming, overriding problem was an unending doldrums. Threads have popped up for things that were actually worth discussing, but at this point, even the good three-week stretch runs into the lack of trust that they've built up for a good year now. How excited can I get about Nyla Rose and Jade Cargill vs. Almost Every Face without wondering how many weeks-long breaks between developments we may be in for?
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Dec 7, 2020 14:18:26 GMT -5
Right now my one primary hangup is how the women aren’t getting the zanier and more exciting projects the fellas are, like Dinner Debonair and the Stadium match. I won’t fault them for issues they’re genuinely trying to work around, like having to make adjustments for COVID and travel restrictions, or the talent being greener than NXT’s women on average. But there are clear differences in how the two divisions are currently being written, in terms of ambition. That is very true. And it's not like they don't have the talent available to do that. Shida (if they'd allow her), Abaddon, Nyla, Britt w/Rebel, they have girls who can expand past match and interviews. Literally the only talent you listed that is near to the talent level of the NXT girls is Shida abd Maybe Nyla. Abaddon and others like Tay are unproven so far but promising and Britt and Nyla are lacking in onr area or the other. That is not enough to go balls to the wall yet.They should be building the nee girls they have so they can get to that level.They seem to be starting 5hat with Anna and Abaddon so I am optmistic but careful here. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:20:56 GMT -5
The Dentist match is a step in the right direction, along with other Britt material. It just needs to be more widespread like the men. It's not just Inner Circle doing innovative stuff for instance. Personally, I think NXT shows why it would be in the best interest for AEW to do better with their women's division. It can help the overall product draw, it provides more opportunities for the women to grow as workers, and if the other divisions aren't doing as well, it is something to fall back on. It can help the product draw? In what way? They should copy NXT who is continuously getting crushed in ratings, and even more so in women viewership? The irony that everyone in here keeps all women story lines/angles to one thread while complaining about the women only being in Q7 is truly remarkable. What does ratings have to do with womens wrestling? He said it can help the product draw, not they aren't drawing |
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 7, 2020 14:21:10 GMT -5
The Dentist match is a step in the right direction, along with other Britt material. It just needs to be more widespread like the men. It's not just Inner Circle doing innovative stuff for instance. Personally, I think NXT shows why it would be in the best interest for AEW to do better with their women's division. It can help the overall product draw, it provides more opportunities for the women to grow as workers, and if the other divisions aren't doing as well, it is something to fall back on. It can help the product draw? In what way? They should copy NXT who is continuously getting crushed in ratings, and even more so in women viewership? The irony that everyone in here keeps all women story lines/angles to one thread while complaining about the women only being in Q7 is truly remarkable. Variety for one. You think NXT would be doing better without their great women division? I don't. Having a good women's division provides another thing for AEW to work with, market off of, and gain an audience for. That doesn't include copying, but figuring out their own ways to improve the division. And people talk about this in the weekly dynamite threads all the time, among other threads, so the last point isn't hitting like you think it is. |
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Post by flowercity on Dec 7, 2020 14:22:38 GMT -5
The show having a distinct dip in its overall quality every week that is directly correlated to the gender of the participants is bad television. This is 100% opinion and conjecture. It is not based in any type of fact. The AEW audience is growing, and it is building fastest with women, especially young women 12-34. I am all for discussion of the women’s division and it’s general standing in AEW but the big problem is that most everyone in this thread is chasing their our tail trying to prove something that is made up in the minds of a few hundred online wrestling diehards. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:24:30 GMT -5
It can help the product draw? In what way? They should copy NXT who is continuously getting crushed in ratings, and even more so in women viewership? The irony that everyone in here keeps all women story lines/angles to one thread while complaining about the women only being in Q7 is truly remarkable. Variety for one. You think NXT would be doing better without their great women division? I don't. Having a good women's division provides another thing for AEW to work with, market off of, and gain an audience for. That doesn't include copying, but figuring out their own ways to improve the division. And people talk about this in the weekly dynamite threads all the time, among other threads, so the last point isn't hitting like you think it is. And no reason to flood the forum with the same thing every week This is a mega thread at this point. It wouldn't have reached over 70 pages if the complaints weren't justified or they fixed the problems |
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Post by flowercity on Dec 7, 2020 14:24:48 GMT -5
It can help the product draw? In what way? They should copy NXT who is continuously getting crushed in ratings, and even more so in women viewership? The irony that everyone in here keeps all women story lines/angles to one thread while complaining about the women only being in Q7 is truly remarkable. What does ratings have to do with womens wrestling? He said it can help the product draw, not they aren't drawing Television Ratings is the number one factor as to how wrestling companies make money these days. Especially in AEW who shares ad revenue with Turner. So it has everything to do with drawing. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:25:44 GMT -5
What does ratings have to do with womens wrestling? He said it can help the product draw, not they aren't drawing Television Ratings is the number one factor as to how wrestling companies make money these days. Especially in AEW who shares ad revenue with Turner. So it has everything to do with drawing. So, if women's wrestling is flat and isn't drawing, you cut it off your program and only feature the men? |
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
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Posts: 4,349
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 7, 2020 14:26:44 GMT -5
That is very true. And it's not like they don't have the talent available to do that. Shida (if they'd allow her), Abaddon, Nyla, Britt w/Rebel, they have girls who can expand past match and interviews. Literally the only talent you listed that is near to the talent level of the NXT girls is Shida abd Maybe Nyla. Abaddon and others like Tay are unproven so far but promising and Britt and Nyla are lacking in onr area or the other. That is not enough to go balls to the wall yet.They should be building the nee girls they have so they can get to that level.They seem to be starting 5hat with Anna and Abaddon so I am optmistic but careful here. It's not just about the in ring aspect (where NXT totally eclipses AEW). It's also about character building, mic work, etc. AEW do have mic workers and character workers in their women roster. And given time and build up, they can stack up to NXT. I mean, I like them, but the gap isn't as huge character/mic work wise. The in ring part will need some heavy lifting from Shida, Nyla, and outsourced wrestlers (ie: Thunder Rosa) for a while. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 14:28:20 GMT -5
I always have said this about the whole comparison between NXT womens division and AEW's and the biggest difference is simply one prioritizes them over the other.
One gets multiple matches , multiple segments , gotten to main event not just the weekly show but Takeovers as well , all the women are always doing something not just waiting around for the champ to get freed up and are treated as very important to the overall show.
the other one gets multiple women matches on a youtube only secondary show.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 7, 2020 14:29:34 GMT -5
Television Ratings is the number one factor as to how wrestling companies make money these days. Especially in AEW who shares ad revenue with Turner. So it has everything to do with drawing. So, if women's wrestling is flat and isn't drawing, you cut it off your program and only feature the men? This is something I have heard from a lot of women's wrestling detractors. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Half-ass women's wrestling -> Nobody likes half assed work -> "Women's wrestling doesn't draw" -> Half-ass women's wrestling. When WWE even proved this circle is based on a fallacy. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:33:29 GMT -5
So, if women's wrestling is flat and isn't drawing, you cut it off your program and only feature the men? This is something I have heard from women's wrestling detractors. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Half-ass women's wrestling -> Nobody likes half assed work -> "Women's wrestling doesn't draw" -> Half-ass women's wrestling. When WWE even proved this circle is based on a fallacy. If you build it they will come You can't start lower then what WWE had to do with their women. And while they still don't book them right, they have at least been put in positions to succeed at points Women's wrestling just adds a whole new layer to a show when it is good. It is why Impact and NXT can put on multiple segments with them and start or main event shows because they hold their own even over their own mens division in their respective companies |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:36:50 GMT -5
I always have said this about the whole comparison between NXT womens division and AEW's and the biggest difference is simply one prioritizes them over the other. One gets multiple matches , multiple segments , gotten to main event not just the weekly show but Takeovers as well , all the women are always doing something not just waiting around for the champ to get freed up and are treated as very important to the overall show.the other one gets multiple women matches on a youtube only secondary show. And it is not like NXT did that forever either They literally started doing it once they got TV and had two hours. The womens division was good but flat because you only had the feuds focus on the champion and TV was an hour a week. When they went to two hours, it expanded immediately and you got to see the actual talent and it became the best part of the show Shayna essentially beat everyone on that roster before TV but once they got TV, the energy was diff because everyone was gunning for her and that samething has followed since. It has always been about the womens title but now they can do side feuds that leads to that same conclusion. Candice/Shotzi started feuding not just because of the tank, Candice was mad Shotzi cost her the Womens title and she destroyed her tank for doing so |
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Post by flowercity on Dec 7, 2020 14:40:37 GMT -5
Y’all are truly something else. I like that it is immediately inferred I would cut off the entire women’s division since I don’t think it makes much sense to expand their role. I am called a “women’s wrestling detractor” because of reasons I am not entirely sure of.
I like to talk based off facts and figures. Higher ratings = higher dollars for everyone. That includes women talent. Should we be sacrificing their paychecks to prove whatever point is being argued here?
These examples of great women’s wrestling...Impact, NXT....did they lead to more viewers? You’re talking about two shows that routinely don’t even chart. Why do we think that’s working? Why should AEW practice a business model that has never proven to draw!
No one even asked my opinion about the division or how I’d improve it. Which says all you need to know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 14:45:59 GMT -5
I always have said this about the whole comparison between NXT womens division and AEW's and the biggest difference is simply one prioritizes them over the other. One gets multiple matches , multiple segments , gotten to main event not just the weekly show but Takeovers as well , all the women are always doing something not just waiting around for the champ to get freed up and are treated as very important to the overall show.the other one gets multiple women matches on a youtube only secondary show. And it is not like NXT did that forever either They literally started doing it once they got TV and had two hours. The womens division was good but flat because you only had the feuds focus on the champion and TV was an hour a week. When they went to two hours, it expanded immediately and you got to see the actual talent and it became the best part of the show Shayna essentially beat everyone on that roster before TV but once they got TV, the energy was diff because everyone was gunning for her and that samething has followed since. It has always been about the womens title but now they can do side feuds that leads to that same conclusion. Candice/Shotzi started feuding not just because of the tank, Candice was mad Shotzi cost her the Womens title and she destroyed her tank for doing so I remember the question being asked I think it was posed by you yourself forgive me if I am mistaken there but it comes up from time to time about...who or what has benefited the most from NXT going to 2hrs on TV and individually there are alot of arguments to be but I think we can definitively at this moment in time say that the NXT womens division as a whole has absoloutley benefited the most from that move. They immediately got more time , more of the women started getting air time and promo time and it has been amazing ever since. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2020 14:48:57 GMT -5
And it is not like NXT did that forever either They literally started doing it once they got TV and had two hours. The womens division was good but flat because you only had the feuds focus on the champion and TV was an hour a week. When they went to two hours, it expanded immediately and you got to see the actual talent and it became the best part of the show Shayna essentially beat everyone on that roster before TV but once they got TV, the energy was diff because everyone was gunning for her and that samething has followed since. It has always been about the womens title but now they can do side feuds that leads to that same conclusion. Candice/Shotzi started feuding not just because of the tank, Candice was mad Shotzi cost her the Womens title and she destroyed her tank for doing so I remember the question being asked I think it was posed by you yourself forgive me if I am mistaken there but it comes up from time to time about...who or what has benefited the most from NXT going to 2hrs on TV and individually there are alot of arguments to be but I think we can definitively at this moment in time say that the NXT womens division has absoloutley benefited from that. They immediately got more time , more of the women started getting air time and promo time and it has been amazing ever since. That was me that posed the question and def the two biggest benefiters have been the women division and my answer at the time, Keith Lee who went from lounging on a flat NXT debut to breakout star |
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Post by markymark on Dec 7, 2020 15:37:05 GMT -5
The show having a distinct dip in its overall quality every week that is directly correlated to the gender of the participants is bad television. Big Swole coming out of a months-long feud, having gotten a substantial PPV win (that was only on PPV because fans complained even though it was an angle that got TV time for months on end), and then getting a title match with so little promotion and hype that it was practically self-parody...is also bad television. Hikaru Shida going long stretches without clear challengers or angles is bad television, especially when a potentially worthwhile angle (Nyla and Vickie demanding a title shot) ends up illogical because it was treated like an afterthought. (Seriously! Vickie complained that AEW wasn't granting Nyla the title match, but it turns out all she had to do was just...ask Shida, and Shida had zero objections? What kind of angle is that? What's the conflict? Why did we have to wait months after the Vickie/Nyla pairing started up in order to get...that?) Serena Deeb not having any kind of personality or gimmick before suddenly being a champion that we are meant to be invested in and impressed by is bad television. Good wrestlers and fun acts like Hikaru Shida, Britt Baker, Big Swole, and Nyla Rose having nothing to work with for months at a time is bad television. The fact that Nyla Rose outright disappeared from television for ages, having nothing whatsoever to do between "gets a manager to up her game" and "gets a title match because someone got around to asking the champion" is ridiculous given that she is a solid wrestler and good promo, and who had a new character dynamic to get over during that time period. The main reason discussion got so centralized to this thread is because until three weeks ago, the overwhelming, overriding problem was an unending doldrums. Threads have popped up for things that were actually worth discussing, but at this point, even the good three-week stretch runs into the lack of trust that they've built up for a good year now. How excited can I get about Nyla Rose and Jade Cargill vs. Almost Every Face without wondering how many weeks-long breaks between developments we may be in for? Swoles case, it was kinda laughable how they tried her to work Kenny style of wrestling and it wasnt working, the moment she looked bad vs Shida was probably the last straw that she needed someone else to help her, ever since Malenko is helping laying out her matches she has showed some improvement. They should turn the vicious Vixens into a stable. |
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