Gunnery Sgt. Hartman in Full Metal Jacket...

[ToyfareMark]

Did he have it coming? I'm just wondering what people's opinions are on this. On one hand the way he treated the recruits was sadistic, and cruel. On the other that's just the way it was back then, you can't really blame him for doing things the way they were done at the time. Now no one deserves to be murdered, but there are times when a person brings it on their self. I'm just wondering what those that have seen the movie think.

[fw91]

He didn't deserve it, even with his methods. But he should have shown more compassion towards Pyle at the end. He was obviously unstable, and Hartman asking, "What's your malfunction?" and "Did Daddy give you no attention" only set him off. Stupid move. Joker acted correctly in that situation and it saved him.

[Fade]

I remember thinking/feeling he didn’t deserve it. Vividly.

[Ultimo Gallos]

Honestly they should have given Pyle a entry level seperation less than 3 weeks into BCT.

[ToyfareMark]

Not to hijack my own thread. But seeing R. Lee Ermy in Fletch Lives after seeing Full Metal Jacket is one of the most surreal things ever.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

He didn't deserve it. He was tough on Pyle but that's his job to make tough soldiers and weed out the ones who don't belong. In a sense it worked as he gave him credit when he finally got focused but that was only after the platoon beat Pyle and he snapped.

He could been more compassionate at the end when Pyle was clearly off his shit but he reacted the only way he knew how and it killed him

[Hit Girl]

He had it coming. There were clear signs of trouble from Pyle and he didn't see it. Even when confronted by an unstable guy with a loaded weapon, he still proceeded to provoke him.

[Limity (BLM)]

This is like asking if the bullies that get killed by school shooters had it coming.

[SmashTV]

I think he did; he was only doing his job but he seemed to take extra delight in bullying Pyle due to his weight and soft personality.

Anyone who sleeps in their army hat obviously takes their job very seriously.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Aug 4, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

This is like asking if the bullies that get killed by school shooters had it coming.

They aren't the only ones that get killed tho 

[Limity (BLM)]

Aug 4, 2020 15:30:41 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Aug 4, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

This is like asking if the bullies that get killed by school shooters had it coming.

They aren't the only ones that get killed tho 

Ok?

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Aug 4, 2020 15:41:55 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Aug 4, 2020 15:30:41 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

They aren't the only ones that get killed tho 

Ok?

As in saying, you can bully someone but they will still take it out on everyone else as has been the case

Your analogy didn't fit. No one has it coming and those you said that do aren't the only victims

[Limity (BLM)]

Aug 4, 2020 15:44:35 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Aug 4, 2020 15:41:55 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Ok?

As in saying, you can bully someone but they will still take it out on everyone else as has been the case

Your analogy didn't fit. No one has it coming and those you said that do aren't the only victims

Ah, I suspected there was a miscommunication.

To me, in asking if the drill sergeant "had it coming", we are essentially asking if Pyle's actions were justified. To me, that's akin to asking if well was the murder of the school bully justified because he was a bully.

You are correct though, that my analogy doesn't fit. A typical bully is acting out of malice and low self esteem. A drill sergeant is acting with purpose, creating as stressful an environment as possible for the purpose of preparing men and women for that most stressful situation, combat.

Pyle was the most out of shape and ill prepared mentally for a combat situation. Accordingly, the drill sergeant focused that much more attention on him to achieve the end goal.

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Aug 4, 2020 15:51:28 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Aug 4, 2020 15:44:35 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

As in saying, you can bully someone but they will still take it out on everyone else as has been the case

Your analogy didn't fit. No one has it coming and those you said that do aren't the only victims

Ah, I suspected there was a miscommunication.

To me, in asking if the drill sergeant "had it coming", we are essentially asking if Pyle's actions were justified. To me, that's akin to asking if well was the murder of the school bully justified because he was a bully.

You are correct though, that my analogy doesn't fit. A typical bully is acting out of malice and low self esteem. A drill sergeant is acting with purpose, creating as stressful an environment as possible for the purpose of preparing men and women for that most stressful situation, combat.

Pyle was the most out of shape and I'll prepared mentally for a combat situation. Accordingly, the drill sergeant focused that much more attention on him to achieve the end goal.

I got you now that you spelled it out 

He created the monster and it bit him when that monster got unleashed and couldn't be contained

[ToyfareMark]

Aug 4, 2020 15:24:57 GMT -5 SmashTV said:

I think he did; he was only doing his job but he seemed to take extra delight in bullying Pyle due to his weight and soft personality.

Anyone who sleeps in their army hat obviously takes their job very seriously.

This made me laugh more than it should have. I figured he just had his hat by his nightstand or whatever.

[Hit Girl]

After just a few weeks of training they should have realised that Pyle was mentally challenged and sent him home.

[mattperiolat]

Aug 4, 2020 18:42:39 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

After just a few weeks of training they should have realised that Pyle was mentally challenged and sent him home.

And miss feeding the meat grinder of Vietnam? Hell no. Marines don’t fail anyway - he turned to peer pressure since he couldn’t succeed and that’s when shit went downhill.

R. Lee is also in Dead Man Walking as a murder victim’s father. Very good for something different.

[Dr. T is an alien]

He absolutely did not deserve it. Yes, he was harsh on everyone, especially Pyle, but that was his job. He also was supportive when Pyle did well. The reality was that if a drill instructor did not break his troops in hard, they were likely to break in combat and die as a result (and cause others to die as well). Ermey was a drill instructor and said that every morning the various drill instructors got together, went through casualty reports, and spent time comforting any instructor who saw a name that they trained. They were brutal because they cared.

[Loser troll. Please ban me]

It's a morally grey area, A tone that carries through to the second part of the film and is an overall theme.

We have to ask ourselves, Did the sniper deserve it? Are they just like Jokers crew doing what they have to live?

[chrom]

Aug 4, 2020 18:42:39 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

After just a few weeks of training they should have realised that Pyle was mentally challenged and sent him home.

Wasn't until the 80s that the standards changed. If you could hold a gun in your arms, the military would take you regardless if you talked to green zebras that only you could see.