Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,499
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Post by Fade on Feb 27, 2021 20:40:34 GMT -5
I agree. Instead of constraining things to a shared universe where everything has to connect, have a multiverse instead. And then you can build that up to a cinematic Crisis if you really want to have your big crossover movie. I think that might be what’s f***ing them up. Cause they want that. They see the Marvel formula and want the end result. But they can still get that while working with the “different versions” thing. It’s right there. The formula for them to thrive is right there. And as mentioned, Joker showed that, The Batman will more than likely also show that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 27, 2021 21:23:10 GMT -5
It's so weird how before the MCU there wasn't any real worry or concern about having to explain movies were in a multiverse etc. Comics movies just had different versions of characters in their own bubbles by default.
It's almost like they've forgotten how to just do that and are making stuff more complicated than it needs to be.
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Post by darbus alan on Feb 28, 2021 15:02:41 GMT -5
It's so weird how before the MCU there wasn't any real worry or concern about having to explain movies were in a multiverse etc. Comics movies just had different versions of characters in their own bubbles by default. It's almost like they've forgotten how to just do that and are making stuff more complicated than it needs to be. The entertainment industry in general is filled with shameless copycats.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 28, 2021 20:15:09 GMT -5
Just putting this out here:
I'd love a Jason Rusch Firestorm feature.
I came to like him as much as Ronnie, almost. He was even better when playing off the other FS characters.
So do Jason/Ronnie, with Professor Stein guiding them somehow.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 20:39:30 GMT -5
I agree. Instead of constraining things to a shared universe where everything has to connect, have a multiverse instead. And then you can build that up to a cinematic Crisis if you really want to have your big crossover movie. I think that might be what’s f***ing them up. Cause they want that. They see the Marvel formula and want the end result. But they can still get that while working with the “different versions” thing. It’s right there. The formula for them to thrive is right there. And as mentioned, Joker showed that, The Batman will more than likely also show that. That's been the problem with the DCEU from the start is that. They want the pay off for a big crossover without putting in any of the acual work to take their time to build the characters etc it was in part what sunk BVS because they did not earn that at all.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 28, 2021 20:59:42 GMT -5
That's been the problem with the DCEU from the start is that. They want the pay off for a big crossover without putting in any of the acual work to take their time to build the characters etc it was in part what sunk BVS because they did not earn that at all. The basic premise of their business model does make sense - unlike Marvel, whose primary cast of characters in Phase One didn't have a lot of mainstream appeal, the general audience is very aware of who Barman and Superman are. The problem lies with them serving up a Batman and Superman who bear very little resemblance to the characters established in the public consciousness and expecting them to be as readily accepted as the ones portrayed by Keaton, Bale, Kilmer, and Reeve. Putting them together in a movie that was savaged by critics, ridiculed by the majority of the established fanbase, and hated by general audiences didn't help, either.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 28, 2021 21:57:16 GMT -5
I think that might be what’s f***ing them up. Cause they want that. They see the Marvel formula and want the end result. But they can still get that while working with the “different versions” thing. It’s right there. The formula for them to thrive is right there. And as mentioned, Joker showed that, The Batman will more than likely also show that. That's been the problem with the DCEU from the start is that. They want the pay off for a big crossover without putting in any of the acual work to take their time to build the characters etc it was in part what sunk BVS because they did not earn that at all. even before the DCEU. I mean Green Lantern had 3 movies worth of plot in it... and ends with Hal destroying Parralax... who IS NOT A f***ING movie one villain.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 22:04:39 GMT -5
At this point I don't even want to see them restart the DCEU or course correct it or whatever, I'd rather just see standalone movies. I don't really have a huge love for shared comic book universes to begin with a lot of the time (some of my issues with this are how little sense Batman and X-Men make in the context of their broader worlds, but there are other problems) and at this point pretty much anything DC were to try to do is just going to read as a hollow ripoff of the MCU anyway because they're basically over a decade behind it on getting their footing.
Though really end of the day I just want good DC movies. I love DC's cast way more than Marvel's, and really I don't have that high of an opinion of the MCU comparatively, but it feels like at all times you can never trust DC to not completely shit the bed.
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Post by darbus alan on Feb 28, 2021 22:13:34 GMT -5
That's been the problem with the DCEU from the start is that. They want the pay off for a big crossover without putting in any of the acual work to take their time to build the characters etc it was in part what sunk BVS because they did not earn that at all. even before the DCEU. I mean Green Lantern had 3 movies worth of plot in it... and ends with Hal destroying Parralax... who IS NOT A f***ING movie one villain. Parallax could've been a Justice League-tier villain. Look what he did to Hal in Emerald Twilight and everything else after he got established as a cosmic force (as opposed to Hal going insane with grief as originally written). Instead he gets punked out one-on-one by Hal like a few days after he first got the ring. The movie made the Fear Entity into a complete chump.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 22:15:27 GMT -5
even before the DCEU. I mean Green Lantern had 3 movies worth of plot in it... and ends with Hal destroying Parralax... who IS NOT A f***ING movie one villain. Parallax could've been a Justice League-tier villain. Look what he did to Hal in Emerald Twilight and everything else after he got established as a cosmic force (as opposed to Hal going insane with grief as originally written). Instead he gets punked out one-on-one by Hal like a few days after he first got the ring. The movie made the Fear Entity into a complete chump. Honestly the movie doesn't really do a good job with establishing anybody. Like you have that one two minute training montage of them just kind of kicking the shit out of Hal then at the end everyone shows up and nods approvingly at him beating Parallax and it's just like, "Wait, we were supposed to care about these people?" But no, better to use that time with him hanging out with his nephew who never appears again entirely to set up a stupid set piece that doesn't really impact the movie at all. Then there's the ending. If you don't know the comics then why the hell are you supposed to care about Sinestro putting the yellow ring on? Sinestro did nothing in that movie and they did nowhere near a convincing job of making it look like that ring would actually be anything resembling useful.
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Post by darbus alan on Feb 28, 2021 22:19:59 GMT -5
Parallax could've been a Justice League-tier villain. Look what he did to Hal in Emerald Twilight and everything else after he got established as a cosmic force (as opposed to Hal going insane with grief as originally written). Instead he gets punked out one-on-one by Hal like a few days after he first got the ring. The movie made the Fear Entity into a complete chump. Honestly the movie doesn't really do a good job with establishing anybody. Like you have that one two minute training montage of them just kind of kicking the shit out of Hal then at the end everyone shows up and nods approvingly at him beating Parallax and it's just like, "Wait, we were supposed to care about these people?" But no, better to use that time with him hanging out with his nephew who never appears again entirely to set up a stupid set piece that doesn't really impact the movie at all. Then there's the ending. If you don't know the comics then why the hell are you supposed to care about Sinestro putting the yellow ring on? Sinestro did nothing in that movie and they did nowhere near a convincing job of making it look like that ring would actually be anything resembling useful. They didn't even really establish Sinestro as all that villainous either. Strict, yes, but they didn't do like, anything to establish that he was disillusioned with the Guardians or was a particularly ruthless Lantern that went against what the GL Corps were supposed to stand for. All that stinger did was give fanservice to the comic fans.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Mar 1, 2021 0:05:12 GMT -5
Parallax could've been a Justice League-tier villain. Look what he did to Hal in Emerald Twilight and everything else after he got established as a cosmic force (as opposed to Hal going insane with grief as originally written). Instead he gets punked out one-on-one by Hal like a few days after he first got the ring. The movie made the Fear Entity into a complete chump. Honestly the movie doesn't really do a good job with establishing anybody. Like you have that one two minute training montage of them just kind of kicking the shit out of Hal then at the end everyone shows up and nods approvingly at him beating Parallax and it's just like, "Wait, we were supposed to care about these people?" But no, better to use that time with him hanging out with his nephew who never appears again entirely to set up a stupid set piece that doesn't really impact the movie at all. Then there's the ending. If you don't know the comics then why the hell are you supposed to care about Sinestro putting the yellow ring on? Sinestro did nothing in that movie and they did nowhere near a convincing job of making it look like that ring would actually be anything resembling useful. That's my point there are 3 movies in it. So nothing gets time to breathe or get established. Hammond's in it for like 5 minutes
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 1, 2021 0:48:23 GMT -5
Dude, don’t get me started on the GL movie because as one of the bigger Lantern fans, I’m still annoyed about how that thing rushed pretty much all the beats it could possibly have had. We were THIS close to the Sinestro Corps War on the big screen, man! At this point I don't even want to see them restart the DCEU or course correct it or whatever, I'd rather just see standalone movies. I don't really have a huge love for shared comic book universes to begin with a lot of the time (some of my issues with this are how little sense Batman and X-Men make in the context of their broader worlds, but there are other problems) and at this point pretty much anything DC were to try to do is just going to read as a hollow ripoff of the MCU anyway because they're basically over a decade behind it on getting their footing. Though really end of the day I just want good DC movies. I love DC's cast way more than Marvel's, and really I don't have that high of an opinion of the MCU comparatively, but it feels like at all times you can never trust DC to not completely shit the bed. This is pretty much my approach. Make it a place where filmmakers make the projects they want with the characters they want and in a way, it’s easy to make that happen. Ava DuVarney is making the New Genesis movie, for example. Just tell her it’s non canon to anything and let her go wild. Same with this Superman or The Batman or The Suicide Squad or whatever. Let Marvel stick to what it’s doing and go as far away from it as possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2021 2:15:18 GMT -5
I don't care if they do black Superman or not, but I still want Jewish Superman dammit! Dude was created by a couple of Jewish guys to basically be a modern Golem, and he's always a white Christian dude.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Mar 1, 2021 3:57:00 GMT -5
At this point, WB should just ripoff the MCU and whenever someone confronts them, jam their fingers in their ears and go "LALALA!"
They'll still get the money they want.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Mar 1, 2021 10:30:14 GMT -5
So Ray Fisher is complaining about this too.
Fisher:ACH::Coates:Shad?
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Mar 1, 2021 10:30:46 GMT -5
I don't care if they do black Superman or not, but I still want Jewish Superman dammit! Dude was created by a couple of Jewish guys to basically be a modern Golem, and he's always a white Christian dude. Well, if you take what the mom in Superman II says to be canon....
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Mar 1, 2021 14:48:18 GMT -5
I'd like a story about a Kryptonian who just happened to be black. He also survived the explosion of the Kryptonian star and makes it to Earth several years after Superman. He's not Superman, but an entirely new character. The story could then be used to explore what kind of prejudice he'd face not only for being an alien, but also for being a black man with superhuman power. There could be another theme running through the story that by being white, Superman may get the benefit of the doubt by western civilisation more than someone of equal power and wholesomeness of character, just because the other Kryptonian is black. Superman himself would object to this. It could further be explored with black humans telling the new Kryptonian that while Superman protects the world from supervillains and natural disasters, they need protection from simply being killed by police for walking down the street, a concept that the black Kryptonian can barely comprehend until he observes human society in greater detail. Oh man I would watch the shit out of that movie. It'd be interesting because like, how do you NOT flip out on the world when it's got THAT level of injustice against people like you? It would be even HARDER for that guy to be a good guy. Yeah, no. I’m black and I’d pass on watching that, sorry. It goes back to something Martellus Bennett once wrote on coming up with children’s stories and Black representations in media, there’s way too much focus on “struggle stories” and racial angst and it’s disproportionate to a much wider range of escapist media that characters of other races are allowed. Like, I get your heart’s in the right place when proposing that, but he pointed out “do I really want my kids to experience more racism in their fiction? When I write a story,I’m taking you (as in black readers) someplace amazing.” Like, give us a break for once and let’s try something simpler and fun instead. What DC needs is its predominantly black Guardians, a black Thor Ragnarok. That I’d pay money to watch.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Mar 1, 2021 16:01:13 GMT -5
Oh man I would watch the shit out of that movie. It'd be interesting because like, how do you NOT flip out on the world when it's got THAT level of injustice against people like you? It would be even HARDER for that guy to be a good guy. Yeah, no. I’m black and I’d pass on watching that, sorry. It goes back to something Martellus Bennett once wrote on coming up with children’s stories and Black representations in media, there’s way too much focus on “struggle stories” and racial angst and it’s disproportionate to a much wider range of escapist media that characters of other races are allowed. Like, I get your heart’s in the right place when proposing that, but he pointed out “do I really want my kids to experience more racism in their fiction? When I write a story,I’m taking you (as in black readers) someplace amazing.” Like, give us a break for once and let’s try something simpler and fun instead. What DC needs is its predominantly black Guardians, a black Thor Ragnarok. That I’d pay money to watch. Not to say it’s the same but Calvin Elias is surrounded by a Black Justice League so...
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Mar 1, 2021 16:50:25 GMT -5
This can be applied to most entertainment now in general.
As I said I am tired of [edited by FAN] being EVERYWHERE even in what's usually lighter entertainment.
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