|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 13, 2021 16:55:39 GMT -5
I think there have been plenty of people that could have beaten Reigns at this point, that would have made this actually semi-worthwhile cause it would add another bonafide face star to the company that is in massive dire need for more.
That managed to get themselves over enough for the crowd to at least believe that they were able to beat Roman only for the company have Roman cut them off at the knees.
Could these people have sustained the momentum off it? That would almost entirely be on the back of the company and with the writing and general disarray of creative probably not... but literally anything is better than Roman steamrolling more and more people without ever suffering even as much of a consequence for his actions.
|
|
Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
BAU BAU
Posts: 39,191
|
Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Nov 13, 2021 16:56:37 GMT -5
The rumor I've seen for Mania is Reigns / Lesnar and I see zero reason not to believe that given they have unfinished business, it's not like anyone else is a credible threat to Roman at this point, and it's not really clear what the hell Brock would be doing instead. I mean, I hate the idea of Lesnar as champ as well as doing the match between the two for the umpteenth time but the story would make plenty of sense. Personally, I still am loving the Tribal Chief's run but then again I've been on the Reigns train since Main Roster Day 1.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Nov 13, 2021 18:03:46 GMT -5
This is boring as shit, and I clearly made the right choice to entirely give up on WWE after Roman won by literal rope break
|
|
|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Nov 13, 2021 18:19:30 GMT -5
The only way people will be a loss now for the title. Has to be a HUGE update.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 14, 2021 3:25:31 GMT -5
The only way people will be a loss now for the title. Has to be a HUGE update. Hell something like this months ago would have been fantastic... Roman gives a midcard guy a shot... (not even necessarily for the title), he doesn't take him seriously and the guy pulls something out that Roman was not expecting or that Roman has no counter for and loses. Even if Roman gets pissed off at the loss and beats him down in a rematch... it'd be SOMETHING different and show at least a different side to Roman... and potentially make him interesting again like he was during the Jeu Feud.
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,594
Member is Online
|
Post by Chiral on Nov 14, 2021 3:25:36 GMT -5
The rumor I've seen for Mania is Reigns / Lesnar and I see zero reason not to believe that given they have unfinished business, it's not like anyone else is a credible threat to Roman at this point, and it's not really clear what the hell Brock would be doing instead. I fully expect Lesnar to win the Rumble at like 30, do Roman/Lesnar at Wrestlemania part whatever, and Roman becomes the first heel champ to retain at ~TWO~ straight Wrestlemania's on his path to a like three year title reign for a hypothetical Rock match, blowing the absurdity of "let's book Rock/Cena a year in advance and put a hold on storytelling...twice." out of the water.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,830
Member is Online
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 14, 2021 6:18:55 GMT -5
It's gonna be Drew.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 14, 2021 9:17:00 GMT -5
Which is fine, but like I’ve said before, you’re not going to get a not-insignificant number of people hooked with him because “He’s already had his turn as world champion”.
|
|
|
Post by RadcapRadsley on Nov 14, 2021 9:23:16 GMT -5
Have you heard this joke
What do you call Aliyah after she beat Roman by 100k in viewers on Friday ?
Answer :The Bigger Dog
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 14, 2021 10:57:11 GMT -5
Have you heard this joke What do you call Aliyah after she beat Roman by 100k in viewers on Friday ? Answer :The Bigger Dog Aliyah and The Bunny; The True Bloodline.
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 14, 2021 11:07:22 GMT -5
It's not reallyt an issue of 'turns' with Drew, I think, so much as it's a problem that paying off this slog with a guy who just had a year-long run with the other world title coming in and being the one to beat Roman's is fundamentally the most status quo thing the company can book right now, and coming off what feels like the 'finally' run at the top for the guy who has spent half a decade in a top guy position on the card but never been able to nail that lengthy run down, what they desperately need to do is end this with a breaking of the status quo and the elevation of someone new. All of this heat would be best served setting up someone new who finally slays the beast even when X number of proven guys couldn't do it, some of them even got 'retired' in their losses, and one person finally makes it happen in a way that makes them look like a star. These are all really basic story blocks of pro wrestling, and spending all of this heat just to reaffirm "Yeah, Drew, it's Drew, we push Drew" is short-sighted and robbing them of a really big change.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 14, 2021 15:23:07 GMT -5
Someone on reddit put it pretty well, I think, when comparing other promotions' storytelling styles with WWE's; while we talk a lot about WWE being more about "moments" than stories, and that remains true, the other thing is that WWE tends to fall too much into "this is the act we're presenting" rather than "this is the story we're telling", and by the sound of a lot of the comments here that's what Roman's fallen into.
Like, there was a good story there for why Roman would turn heel: being the hero had left him hated and plagued by failure and inconsistency when he'd try to achieve his full destiny as the top guy. Then he turns, joins up with his archrival's manager, and then mentally abuses his cousins into being his goons, all the while betraying this sense that he's masking enormous insecurities that led him to this place at the start. There's a *ton* you can do with that; there's plenty of promo material and stuff challengers can call him out on, or try to make him weaker over, all that good stuff.
Yet after awhile, it seems, it just becomes "Here comes THE TRIBAL CHIEF, with his manager and two goons!" and that's just...it. There is no more story, or character evolution, or feuds that reveal new wrinkles in the narrative or character arcs involved (though the Brock/Heyman story may shake that up). They did a whole story where Baron Corbin went broke, then got rich, and became Happy. Now that's just who and what he is; no more story beats, no "what comes next", he's just Happy now.
I think the next person kind of nailed the problem by pointing to the Matt Stone/Trey Parker class where they discussed how "and then" is what leads to poor storytelling, and how instead you should always be going "therefore" or "but" to lead into the next story beat. By and large, WWE avoids that; you get "and then Roman had a match with Cesaro, and then Roman had a match with Demon Balor, and then Roman faced Brock", instead of "Roman had a hard hitting match with Cesaro, therefore Roman's next challenge saw him weakened, but a clever ruse by Heyman caused Finn Balor to" etc. etc. etc.
|
|
|
Post by King Boo on Nov 14, 2021 15:42:53 GMT -5
I decided to peek in this thread and I can't decide whether I'm incredulous or completely unfazed by the fact that this company is *still* doing this stuff with Reigns.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,185
|
Post by Mecca on Nov 14, 2021 15:50:15 GMT -5
Someone on reddit put it pretty well, I think, when comparing other promotions' storytelling styles with WWE's; while we talk a lot about WWE being more about "moments" than stories, and that remains true, the other thing is that WWE tends to fall too much into "this is the act we're presenting" rather than "this is the story we're telling", and by the sound of a lot of the comments here that's what Roman's fallen into. Like, there was a good story there for why Roman would turn heel: being the hero had left him hated and plagued by failure and inconsistency when he'd try to achieve his full destiny as the top guy. Then he turns, joins up with his archrival's manager, and then mentally abuses his cousins into being his goons, all the while betraying this sense that he's masking enormous insecurities that led him to this place at the start. There's a *ton* you can do with that; there's plenty of promo material and stuff challengers can call him out on, or try to make him weaker over, all that good stuff. Yet after awhile, it seems, it just becomes "Here comes THE TRIBAL CHIEF, with his manager and two goons!" and that's just...it. There is no more story, or character evolution, or feuds that reveal new wrinkles in the narrative or character arcs involved (though the Brock/Heyman story may shake that up). They did a whole story where Baron Corbin went broke, then got rich, and became Happy. Now that's just who and what he is; no more story beats, no "what comes next", he's just Happy now. I think the next person kind of nailed the problem by pointing to the Matt Stone/Trey Parker class where they discussed how "and then" is what leads to poor storytelling, and how instead you should always be going "therefore" or "but" to lead into the next story beat. By and large, WWE avoids that; you get "and then Roman had a match with Cesaro, and then Roman had a match with Demon Balor, and then Roman faced Brock", instead of "Roman had a hard hitting match with Cesaro, therefore Roman's next challenge saw him weakened, but a clever ruse by Heyman caused Finn Balor to" etc. etc. etc. The WWE has had a character development problem for years. When a character hits a place they're comfortable with they just don't do anything else to advance it and just try to do their branding stuff. It's a big reason the shows are stale.
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Nov 14, 2021 16:01:51 GMT -5
Why is it WWE books people to be either complete goobers or unstoppable juggernauts?
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,594
Member is Online
|
Post by Chiral on Nov 14, 2021 18:45:40 GMT -5
If you were wondering how Reigns vs. Nakamura would have gone if it was the Rumble title match...
|
|
|
Post by Sir Woodrow on Nov 14, 2021 19:01:17 GMT -5
At this rate Roman is just Jinder Mahal but related to the Rock
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 14, 2021 19:36:11 GMT -5
Someone on reddit put it pretty well, I think, when comparing other promotions' storytelling styles with WWE's; while we talk a lot about WWE being more about "moments" than stories, and that remains true, the other thing is that WWE tends to fall too much into "this is the act we're presenting" rather than "this is the story we're telling", and by the sound of a lot of the comments here that's what Roman's fallen into. Like, there was a good story there for why Roman would turn heel: being the hero had left him hated and plagued by failure and inconsistency when he'd try to achieve his full destiny as the top guy. Then he turns, joins up with his archrival's manager, and then mentally abuses his cousins into being his goons, all the while betraying this sense that he's masking enormous insecurities that led him to this place at the start. There's a *ton* you can do with that; there's plenty of promo material and stuff challengers can call him out on, or try to make him weaker over, all that good stuff. Yet after awhile, it seems, it just becomes "Here comes THE TRIBAL CHIEF, with his manager and two goons!" and that's just...it. There is no more story, or character evolution, or feuds that reveal new wrinkles in the narrative or character arcs involved (though the Brock/Heyman story may shake that up). They did a whole story where Baron Corbin went broke, then got rich, and became Happy. Now that's just who and what he is; no more story beats, no "what comes next", he's just Happy now. I think the next person kind of nailed the problem by pointing to the Matt Stone/Trey Parker class where they discussed how "and then" is what leads to poor storytelling, and how instead you should always be going "therefore" or "but" to lead into the next story beat. By and large, WWE avoids that; you get "and then Roman had a match with Cesaro, and then Roman had a match with Demon Balor, and then Roman faced Brock", instead of "Roman had a hard hitting match with Cesaro, therefore Roman's next challenge saw him weakened, but a clever ruse by Heyman caused Finn Balor to" etc. etc. etc. The WWE has had a character development problem for years. When a character hits a place they're comfortable with they just don't do anything else to advance it and just try to do their branding stuff. It's a big reason the shows are stale. Yeah, it's kind of like the jokes about Michael Cole yelling "It's BOSS time!", because the underlying question is "what does that mean?" I'm sure there's been times they've dipped their toes into that, but by and large it's just a t-shirt brand rather than something they use to color Sasha's motivations and story arcs. It's not to say every other promotion nails this every time; there's plenty of "and then" in other promotions, too, it happens. But the issue is when it's the default storytelling style in your main event scene.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 87,171
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on Nov 14, 2021 20:05:16 GMT -5
Pete's sake, not even at a show for The Troops can he look vulnerable
|
|
rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
|
Post by rocket on Nov 14, 2021 20:11:03 GMT -5
Pete's sake, not even at a show for The Troops can he look vulnerable I'm seeing them tweet out the results and I'm all like isn't this supposed to be a feel-good exhibition. They can't even do that anymore.
|
|