khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,891
|
Post by khali on Nov 22, 2021 0:51:38 GMT -5
One of the many problems with modern Survivor Series is they do a series of matches where one champion is bound to lose. God forbid they make the face champion look like a million bucks by beating the guy no one beats clean.
|
|
|
Post by Mike Strike on Nov 22, 2021 0:54:50 GMT -5
I just have no idea who they could be building up to beat Roman that makes it worth it to have him destroy this much of the roster in the process. That next top babyface just isn't there right now and if they actually are, I don't trust WWE to get them ready for this. The Rock. That's the answer, they want their "dream" match of Rock vs. Reigns at Mania and won't have Roman showing even a hint of weakness before the match. Nevermind that there's no reason such a match has to be for the title to begin with. Nevermind that Rock shouldn't even win said title because he won't stick around to drop it. Meaning Roman will probably win anyway. Nevermind that Rock probably won't even do the match at his age and stage of his career. Nevermind that it won't do shit for buyrates because no one buys PPVs anymore and they don't even have their own network anymore.
|
|
|
Post by clodhopper on Nov 22, 2021 2:30:08 GMT -5
He won't lose the belt clean, some other heel (or face turning heel) will screw him out of it in some way and that'll be the catalyst for a face turn because, Jesus Christ, WWE is rubbish.
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Nov 22, 2021 5:18:06 GMT -5
What gets me about his win over Big E is how shit it makes Big E's title reign look.
He won the belt from Lashley, then the next week gets punked out by Roman who not only beats him in a triple threat match which also included the guy he beat for the title, but then later that same night teams with the Usos to beat him and the New Day.
He's been champ a little over two months and they've done a hell of a lot to show that he's only champion because Roman Reigns is on the other brand.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 22, 2021 5:39:53 GMT -5
What gets me about his win over Big E is how shit it makes Big E's title reign look. He won the belt from Lashley, then the next week gets punked out by Roman who not only beats him in a triple threat match which also included the guy he beat for the title, but then later that same night teams with the Usos to beat him and the New Day. He's been champ a little over two months and they've done a hell of a lot to show that he's only champion because Roman Reigns is on the other brand. Should note once again for context that the match was last night was the first time that Reigns had actually pinned Big E to win the match, those two other ones earlier he wasn't involved in the fall. Unless we're really going to be like "He didn't get pinned, but he still lost so he may as well have been pinned".
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Nov 22, 2021 5:57:57 GMT -5
The match was at less good but that WWE can't book babyfaces. Everyone at the end is at some point feed to Roman. Every babyface they had in the ME has lost Roman or is the other brand champion and made to look weak. Hell they pretty much took all Drew creditability as a believable threat after losing to Lashley consistently and every PPV since than, so can I believe he a threat to Roman? Not really. Who is? Not a single full time roster member at this point. The way it looking its Brock the one taking it from him. Whenever that is because thats what we need is another part timer as champion. God forbid that someone can ever get a legit rub in the WWE where the fans can care and get behind the babyface.
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Nov 22, 2021 10:35:16 GMT -5
What gets me about his win over Big E is how shit it makes Big E's title reign look. He won the belt from Lashley, then the next week gets punked out by Roman who not only beats him in a triple threat match which also included the guy he beat for the title, but then later that same night teams with the Usos to beat him and the New Day. He's been champ a little over two months and they've done a hell of a lot to show that he's only champion because Roman Reigns is on the other brand. Should note once again for context that the match was last night was the first time that Reigns had actually pinned Big E to win the match, those two other ones earlier he wasn't involved in the fall. Unless we're really going to be like "He didn't get pinned, but he still lost so he may as well have been pinned". The fact that he was not pinned is totally irrelevant to my argument. The week after he won a guy shows up proclaiming himself the real champion and dismisses Big E as champion. Then proves himself right by beating both the current and most recent holder of the title he holds, then when they fight again on the same night Roman wins again. Whether or not Big E was pinned other than last night the fact remains that Roman made a fool out of him and proved that he can’t do shit about it.
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Nov 22, 2021 11:34:20 GMT -5
What gets me about his win over Big E is how shit it makes Big E's title reign look. He won the belt from Lashley, then the next week gets punked out by Roman who not only beats him in a triple threat match which also included the guy he beat for the title, but then later that same night teams with the Usos to beat him and the New Day. He's been champ a little over two months and they've done a hell of a lot to show that he's only champion because Roman Reigns is on the other brand. Should note once again for context that the match was last night was the first time that Reigns had actually pinned Big E to win the match, those two other ones earlier he wasn't involved in the fall. Unless we're really going to be like "He didn't get pinned, but he still lost so he may as well have been pinned". There's something to be said for not being pinned in matches, but there's also something to be said for the failure to do the pinning. Like that's objectively a match he didn't win in terms of a loss, but it's also a match he didn't win in terms of getting a pin. Those aren't the same thing but both can hurt him. Winning the title and then failing to win two matches you're put into next week is still a reign that isn't being set up in a good light. If, ultimately, Roman wins the triple threat by pinning the guy Big E beat for the belt, wins the next confrontation between them, and then wins the singles match, that doesn't exactly do any favours for him not getting pinned in those past matches too, because it becomes clear Big E wasn't on Roman's level to begin with. I know they don't write with a cohesive story in mind, but people are going to read one anyway, and the story they have told does not paint Big E in a light where not being the one pinned in the triple threat helped him. With the choices made and the match outcomes that followed, it was not Big E, but the main event of Survivor Series, that they protected with those 'Big E wasn't pinned' bits. They began Big E's reign with the thesis statement "Roman is better" and booked the run-up and finish of Survivor Series to prove it.
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 39,790
Member is Online
|
Post by fw91 on Nov 22, 2021 14:33:26 GMT -5
I get the frustration of same old, same old, but imo, by no way shape or form, should have Roman’s first L taken place in a glorified exhibition match with nothing on the line. I get being over it, but there’s still a perspective to be kept. Big E looked strong too.
|
|
asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,664
Member is Online
|
Post by asuka007 on Nov 22, 2021 14:56:42 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall.
This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good.
It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point.
|
|
|
Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 22, 2021 15:53:30 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall. This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good. It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point. It's worse than the Reign of Terror by far. That was creatively bankrupt but the only person to REALLY suffer long-term from it was Booker T, who should have definitely won at Mania 19. When it comes to Roman's run, everyone to date has looked insignificant. Without interference or with interference, he's beat the following: - Brock Lesnar - John Cena - Big E - Edge - Drew McIntyre - Finn Balor - Rey Mysterio - Daniel Bryan - Cesaro - Kevin Owens - Braun Strowman - Jey Uso Who else is there left to feed him? Big E and Drew were the top two viable babyface contenders he's got. Lesnar and Cena are the two top part-timers he could beat with Edge a close third. It seems like they're gearing up to feed Xavier Woods to him next, probably at or around the Day One PPV. Usually around this time we start to get a feel for who is going to be the guy to rise up and win the Rumble but that doesn't even seem to be happening yet. There's nobody that can be heated up to Roman's level and win believably at this point with MAYBE the exception of Drew McIntyre and even he doesn't feel like he's setting the world on fire right now.
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 22, 2021 16:03:03 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall. This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good. It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point. I mean, HHH still took licks during the reign of terror. There were still times it looked like he threatened. They weren’t as much as, say, HHH during 2000 but they existed. Roman hasn’t really done that. And even the licks his stable could have taken are overridden by him beating up the faces who might be able to get an advantage. It’s some of the most un-WWE booking considering their prime creatively involved Hogan and Austin on top.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 16:08:02 GMT -5
I'm loving the fact that these days it's takes someone fresh for people to understand that the Reign of Terror has nothing on what's happening these days. That Alexa reign for example trounced it.
Triple H got the clothes beat off him in front of fans by Scott Steiner of all people during the Reign of Terror. You ain't seeing anything that embarrassing to Reigns and Alexa years ago.
Reigns got embarrassed more as a face than he ever did as a heel.
|
|
|
Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 22, 2021 16:14:16 GMT -5
I'm loving the fact that these days it's takes someone fresh for people to understand that the Reign of Terror has nothing on what's happening these days. That Alexa reign for example trounced it. Triple H got the clothes beat off him in front of fans by Scott Steiner of all people during the Reign of Terror. You ain't seeing anything that embarrassing to Reigns and Alexa years ago. Reigns got embarrassed more as a face than he ever did as a heel. Face Roman literally had dog food dumped all over him at one point.
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,524
|
Post by Fade on Nov 22, 2021 16:15:03 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall. This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good. It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point. I do not get the “big e looked strong sentiment. This has gone so far in devaluing Big E to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Nov 22, 2021 16:20:10 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall. This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good. It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point. I mean, HHH still took licks during the reign of terror. There were still times it looked like he threatened. They weren’t as much as, say, HHH during 2000 but they existed. Roman hasn’t really done that. And even the licks his stable could have taken are overridden by him beating up the faces who might be able to get an advantage. It’s some of the most un-WWE booking considering their prime creatively involved Hogan and Austin on top. Even Trips’ reigns had Chris Benoit in 2004 and Batista in 2005 built up as the guys who’d dethrone him. Hell, JBL’s 2004/2005 run had John Cena built up as the conquering hero to stop him.
|
|
|
Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Nov 22, 2021 16:27:49 GMT -5
They're apparently trying to book Roman as the GOAT in this run, that's actually been reported in the past. The problem is that doing this with him as a heel is that it essentially means everybody is going to be fodder whose credibility will be shattered by feuding with him. It also raises the question of what do you do with Roman once it's over?
You can't ever really top this reign (and please for the love of God DO NOT TRY), but you can't just ever make him just another member of the roster after this either.
Not to mention by the end of this run he's pretty much going to have beaten everybody on the roster, leaving no fresh match ups.
Right now he's got Jeff Hardy, a rematch with Lesnar, Drew McIntyre, Lashley (if he jumps ship), Seth Rollins (if he jumps ship), Shinsuke Nakamura, Xavier Woods, and Kofi Kingston. I'm sure there's an Elimination Chamber in there too. That's not including his dream match with The Rock. Which may or may not happen at Wrestlemania 39.
From my count that gets him to Summerslam 2022, with months yet to go until his Dream match and the supposed end point of his story.
The real question is can they/will they keep this up for that long?
Are they actually willing to utterly tank the credibility of their entire roster for another year? And even beyond that what payoff could there possibly be to justify all of this?
It is worse than Triple H's reign of terror, because at the end Batista was a made man who ended the Reign of Terror. There hasn't been anybody built to that level at this point, and Roman doesn't have nearly the credibility Triple H had to make a new star. This is ineptitude of the highest order.
|
|
asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,664
Member is Online
|
Post by asuka007 on Nov 22, 2021 16:44:20 GMT -5
The problem is that Roman has been dismissing Big E as not important, destroyed both of Big E’s New Day buddies, won two matches in one night on Big E’s show, etc. And the “payoff” to it was, Roman beats Big E clean and stands tall. This is a TERRIBLE way to book a heel champion. All of WWE exists these days just to make Roman look good. It might be even worse than Triple H during the Reign of Terror at this point. I mean, HHH still took licks during the reign of terror. There were still times it looked like he threatened. They weren’t as much as, say, HHH during 2000 but they existed. Roman hasn’t really done that. And even the licks his stable could have taken are overridden by him beating up the faces who might be able to get an advantage. It’s some of the most un-WWE booking considering their prime creatively involved Hogan and Austin on top. Triple H lost the belt to HBK, Goldberg, Benoit, and finally Batista. Triple H would occasionally look like a clown. Not often, but from time to time. Hunter out midcard guy Shelton Benjamin over multiple times on Raw, etc. With Roman, there’s nothing like that.
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 22, 2021 16:48:13 GMT -5
I mean, HHH still took licks during the reign of terror. There were still times it looked like he threatened. They weren’t as much as, say, HHH during 2000 but they existed. Roman hasn’t really done that. And even the licks his stable could have taken are overridden by him beating up the faces who might be able to get an advantage. It’s some of the most un-WWE booking considering their prime creatively involved Hogan and Austin on top. Triple H lost the belt to HBK, Goldberg, Benoit, and finally Batista. Triple H would occasionally look like a clown. Not often, but from time to time. Hunter out midcard guy Shelton Benjamin over multiple times on Raw, etc. With Roman, there’s nothing like that. I mean, some of the flaws of the RoT was stuff like Shelton getting a win over HHH and the very next week, HHH blowing it off as a fluke and basically getting his win back to prove it was a fluke which happened a lot. But that’s not really the conversation and also not as bad as what’s happening right now.
|
|
4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 28,731
|
Post by 4real on Nov 22, 2021 16:56:46 GMT -5
It’s starting to get exhausting at this point. I was really ready for Big E to win last night. The crowd wanted it. Just massive downer and then fade to black at the end.
Give us hope that Roman is losing soon because atm there is no hope in sight.
|
|